Germanwings A320 plane crash in southern France (150 dead) update:co-pilot deliberately crashed it

[Serious]

@Blackrogue

 

[Digga38]

My greatest fear was realized
When we started putting guarded doors in airplanes post 9/11 my initial thought was
'what if we get a maniac pilot'
or
what if a supposed terrorist does get access to the cockpit solo

See in the aviation industry we always have backup plans
there is no backup plan to Airbus's door issue
If the pilot doesnt want you in.
you simply cant get it

It sucks
But now we need to go back and review this

To me its like the man who holds the nuclear launch codes
not only 1 person can arm it,
it takes 2 so no one man has the power

So in this case we need to take a step back and review this

I dont think the locked door thing is of the same importance that we once thought
If a terrorist wanted in the cockpit for some reason
its the job of the 100 plus passengers to make sure he doesnt get in
its simple
So the armed door is unnecessary

Also
3 people need to posses the code if they do decide to keep the door armed
Both pilots and the head stewardess

My coworker tried to make the point of what if the head stewardess has a gun to her head
oh well
1 person isnt worth 200+
and that person with the gun doesnt have 200 bullets

Passengers should be more proactive in protecting there lives
and I think passengers are post 9/11​

all you have to do is key lock the door and the pilot takes the key on the way out.

 

[superunknown23]

Pilot, huh? I guess I was right.
But that airline is fukked if they find out that he had mental problems and they let him fly anyway.
The lawsuits

 

[BonafideDefacto]

all you have to do is key lock the door and the pilot takes the key on the way out.

​

Ok let me take a step back here
I was speaking for Airbus and non US related flights

In the US when a pilot leaves the cockpit
The head stewardess gos into the cockpit so we have 2 people in at all times
On international long haul flights the scenario is different for there's another crew on the plane.

But it doesn't work that way breh
In this instance it happened to be the copilot

What if its the Captain
Who holds the key

I have conversations with pilots all the time. If the captain decides to carry on the flight, he keeps the gun with him as we do the final walk around. What if he gos mad and murks the copilot.

In any event, the airbus's 30second delay under standard mode will not allow someone to get into the cockpit. Under a forced free dive between loss of pressurization....your fukked no matter what

Dont go to the background check route cause this copilot was an award winning dude

 

[Nigerianwonder]

They haven't ruled out terrorism, they simply stated that at the moment there was no indication of it. Terrorism needs a political/ideological motive which is not present at the moment. But let us have all the information possible before drawing any sort of conclusion.

nah, all you need is brown skin.

Remember this story... you probably don't cause it was under-reported.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-angry-at-irs-crashes-plane-into-office/
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-angry-at-irs-crashes-plane-into-office/

White boy tea party member with politcal agenda and the media still does not label it terrorism.

 

[///Vega+++]

why

 

[Liu Kang]

[...]

I dont think the locked door thing is of the same importance that we once thought
If a terrorist wanted in the cockpit for some reason
its the job of the 100 plus passengers to make sure he doesnt get in
its simple
So the armed door is unnecessary
[...]​

​

That is a scenario within numerous. What if there are more than one terrorists ? What if they don't have guns but explosives ? What if they already killed somebody on board and proved they meant business ? What if the passengers are mostly old people or kids ? And so on. There are plenty of possibilities to be explored and which justifies the armed door. Now it's about balancing the pros and the cons.

You say, it's the passengers' role for the terrorist not to make it to the door but what if he had a grenade or a bomb. I don't think it's easy to decide to sacrifice oneself for the greater good of the nation above all when you're not ready for it. I mean, all of them were about to make a 2/3 hr flight and get done with it without caring about anything. It's not like they were military people. The armed door to me is still a necessity to prevent hijacking. Though there should be more

I think the only thing that would have prevented that was if Europeans laws to be like the US ones and required 2 persons at all time in the front deck. I think that will happen because of that which is the only positive outlook there is in this sad story. That would greatly diminish the risks though it wouldn't nullify them because in that case, the co-pilot could have also locked the door then bodied the stewardess for example giving him full control of the deck.

Also
3 people need to posses the code if they do decide to keep the door armed
Both pilots and the head stewardess

It was already the case. All the stewardesses knew the code according to the Lufthansa CEO, so the likely case was that they were denied by the co-pilot.

nah, all you need is brown skin.

Remember this story... you probably don't cause it was under-reported.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/man-angry-at-irs-crashes-plane-into-office/

White boy tea party member with politcal agenda and the media still does not label it terrorism.

Honestly, I don't care about the media or more importantly about US media or politics regarding a European matters. I was talking about the prosecutor which is leading the investigation and who has not ruled terrorism out but simply stated that there were no indication for it yet.

 

[Uncle_Ruckus]

Co-Pilot Andreas Lubitz converted to Islam. Mark my words.

 

[BonafideDefacto]

Suffice it to say, I am somewhat relived it was non-mechanical
But this trend of pilot error/suicide is getting scarier by the minute
When you consider that 744 people have been killed in relation to pilot suicide in the past 20 years...it is somewhat alarming.

Also on the plus side, American Aviation continues to be safe. We havent had a fatality(passenger-airline) since that A300 crash in late 2001 by American Airlines. But whats alarming is the accident rate of mid-tier carriers from around the world
​

 

[Digga38]

Dont go to the background check route cause this copilot was an award winning dude

this could go both ways....anybody check the pilots facebook?im seeingn a rumor his g/f left him?

 

[Yuzo]

this might spur efforts to incorporate automated piloting in planes similar to the efforts to automate cars based on the argument that automated cars are actually a lot safer because of their ability to remove the possibility of human error. if anything thats one good thing that might come out of this. many people will be extremely weary to fly now because there is no protocol available to mitigate pilot behavior and it will create a financial pressure to incentivize the airlines to come up with a fool proof alternative.

 

[RealAssanova]

I know it sounded stupid (though I didn't think it was laughable) so that's why I said "could". Because it could be an explanation to why there wasn't any mean to stop what happened.
In the situation that is described by the prosecutor, it seemed that the co-pilot decided to lock himself in and because of that there was no way to enter because he then overrode the code from within the deck when the pilot tried to enter it on the keypad at the door (which is why the pilot decided to kick the door after a while). So maybe the solution was imagined but was not probable enough to require a solution ? Or worst case scenario, it wasn't imagined at all because pilots may pass sanity tests on the regular which rule out the suicidal co-pilot scenario.

I have no knowledge in planes or piloting, so I can only speculate. If you know about it, it'd be interesting for us to share your knowledge.

According to the CVR, the captain and first officer were engaged in normal dialogue prior to the captain leaving the flight deck. It was once the captain left, that the first officer switched the lever to "lock". In most cases though during cruise, for reasons such as one of the pilots leaving for a bathroom break, the lever will be in "norm" position.

Once the lever is in the "lock" position, there is no way anyone can get into that flight deck. However, if in "norm", anyone with the access code and another method would be able to enter into the flight deck.

 

[Ghost_In_A_Shell]

this might spur efforts to incorporate automated piloting in planes similar to the efforts to automate cars based on the argument that automated cars are actually a lot safer because of their ability to remove the possibility of human error. if anything thats one good thing that might come out of this. many people will be extremely weary to fly now because there is no protocol available to mitigate pilot behavior and it will create a financial pressure to incentivize the airlines to come up with a fool proof alternative.

Hacking a car is way too easy
Could Michael Hastings' car crash have been caused by a remote attack? Technically, yes
ANDREW LEONARD Follow

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TOPICS: MICHAEL HASTINGS, RICHARD CLARKE, CAR HACKING, HACKING, SECURITY, TECHNOLOGY NEWS

(Credit: Henrik5000 via iStock/Salon)
Conspiracy theories about the cause of the car crash that killed investigative reporter Michael Hastings on June 18 started sprouting immediately after the news of his death broke. So far, no conclusive evidence supports foul play, but on Monday, counterterrorism expert Richard Clarke made news when he told the Huffington Post that the circumstances of Hastings’ car chase were “consistent with a car cyber attack.”



While hastening to state that he was not saying he believed the crash was a purposeful attack, Clarke did observe, reported the Huffington Post, that “‘There is reason to believe that intelligence agencies for major powers’ — including the United States — know how to remotely seize control of a car.”

Clarke served during both Bush presidencies and under Bill Clinton, so presumably he wasn’t speaking completely off the cuff. But just what is a “car cyber attack”?

The answer can be found in two alarming papers by researchers at the University of Washington and the University of California, San Diego, “Experimental Security Analysis of a Modern Vehicle,” and Comprehensive Experimental Analyses of Automotive Attack Surfaces.

Taken together, the papers make for scary reading. In the first the researchers demonstrate that it is a relatively trivial exercise to access the computer systems of a modern car and take control away from the driver. The second demonstrates that such mayhem can be achieved remotely, via a variety of methods. The inescapable conclusion: The modern car is a security disaster.

 

[RealAssanova]

​

Ok let me take a step back here
I was speaking for Airbus and non US related flights

In the US when a pilot leaves the cockpit
The head stewardess gos into the cockpit so we have 2 people in at all times
On international long haul flights the scenario is different for there's another crew on the plane.

But it doesn't work that way breh
In this instance it happened to be the copilot

What if its the Captain
Who holds the key

I have conversations with pilots all the time. If the captain decides to carry on the flight, he keeps the gun with him as we do the final walk around. What if he gos mad and murks the copilot.

In any event, the airbus's 30second delay under standard mode will not allow someone to get into the cockpit. Under a forced free dive between loss of pressurization....your fukked no matter what

Dont go to the background check route cause this copilot was an award winning dude

there was a case exactly like this where the flight engineer snapped mid-flight and attempted to kill both pilots.

Fed-Ex flight 705.

On April 7, 1994, Federal Express Flight 705, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10-30 cargo jet carrying electronics across the United States from Memphis, Tennessee to San Jose, California, experienced an attempted hijacking for the purpose of a suicide attack.

Auburn Calloway, a Federal Express employee facing possible dismissal for lying about his reported flight hours, boarded the scheduled flight as a deadheading passenger with a guitar case carrying several hammers and a speargun. He intended to disable the aircraft's cockpit voice recorder before take-off and, once airborne, kill the crew with hammers so their injuries would appear consistent with an accident rather than a hijacking. The speargun would be a last resort. He would then crash the aircraft while just appearing to be an employee killed in an accident. This would make his family eligible for a $2.5 million life insurance policy paid by Federal Express.[1]

 

[RealAssanova]

you think he could have just rushed the cockpit with some passengers at a certain point, there was like a 7 minute descent.

The plane wasn't nose diving was it @RealAssanova

plane was reasonably level with i assume a slight nose down attitude. They were also travelling near cruise speed which explains the immediate disintegration of the aircraft and blow-back.