Giannis is having a crazy season

[Nero Christ]

This is still being ignored.

Cause we like Giannis more man c'mon son

 

[Ganso Bomb]

If the Bucks can finish the season with the #1 record, he's definitely winning MVP. Which is very possible with Portis coming back, Middleton getting starter minutes, and the addition of Crowder. This MVP to East Conference Finals MVP to Finals MVP run bouta be

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Cause we like Giannis more man c'mon son

It ain't even more about that, my g. It's about folks trying to bullshyt by only telling half-truths.

 

[Raquinotj]

MVP Giannis having a Hard time putting away Mike Muscala, Blake Griffin and Sam Hauser at home.

**MESSAGE SENT**

 

[MJ Truth]

You know you the best when they start taking seasons like this for granted.

Bron went through it. Shaq went through it. Jordan went through it. Kinda is what it is.

 

[Noriega]

MVP Giannis having a Hard time putting away Mike Muscala, Blake Griffin and Sam Hauser at home.

**MESSAGE SENT**

Healthy Bucks are coming out the east

Crowder was icing on the cake

 

[Raquinotj]

Healthy Bucks are coming out the east

Crowder was icing on the cake

Lmao. Celtics sat their entire starting 5 tonight. took the Bucks to overtime. Bucks getting that work in the playoffs.

 

[VegetasHairline]

 

[Bigblackted4]

Do it again.

Skip Bayless Jr

 

[Long Live The Kane]

See now, this is the problem when you don't follow an argument properly.

I said, and I quote:

"The volume is too low to take anything meaningful out of it, given Lopez is the one anchoring that space of the floor for the team (whereas the shots Giannis defends inside the paint are more when he picks and chooses)"

Don't cut off my sentence midway to fight a strawman.

Important to read that I'm comparing Giannis' impact on his own team to Lopez. Dray doesn't have a Lopez on his team. If he did, I wouldn't be singing his praises on defense to the same degree. You have to ask yourself, if Dray had a big man on his team who was defending twice as many shots in the paint as he did, at relatively the same effectiveness, why would I try and put all the emphasis on his rim protection? He would merely be a subplot on his own team defending the paint.

Giannis isn't the main character in his team's paint defense, and that's a fact.

Dray has typically been the main rim protector and/or taking on the main reps defending the paint for the Warriors, which is why you'll see he defends more shots in the paint than any other Warriors player this season. He doesn't have the luxury of picking and choosing when to. Whereas Lopez is the main rim protector for the Bucks, and he defends nearly 2x as many shots in the paint as Giannis does. Furthermore, Dray has an extensive history of being one of the best rim protectors, anchoring championship defenses, so you must understand the context in which his defensive capabilities are spoken about in relation to someone that hasn't done the same on that end.

Dray is the main rim protector for his team and has the most defensive impact inside the paint on his team
Giannis is not the main rim protector for his team and he doesn't have the most defensive impact inside the paint on his team

It would be a different scenario if Giannis was the main rim protector for the Bucks, then it wouldn't necessarily matter about the volume, itself, because we could determine his impact on his team.

You also conveniently left out total defensive FGs defended over those years:

Dray in 2015 - #11 in the league
Dray in 2016 - #2 in the league
Dray in 2017 - #3 in the league
Dray in 2018 - #23 in the league
Dray in 2019 - #22 in the league
Dray in 2021 - #24 in the league
Dray in 2022 - #25 in the league.

Whereas Giannis has never ranked in the top-30 in his entire career.

And besides shots defended, most importantly, Dray leads the way in almost every single defensive role imaginable for the Warriors, where protecting the paint is only one part of all that he covers on that end. Giannis doesn't do that for his team, so you can't possibly compare their situations.

One guy is free to pop up on defense whenever he chooses. The other guy has to quite literally do everything for his team.

Lopez defends 8.1 shots in the paint per game
Giannis defends 4.8 shots in the paint per game.

Bu-bu-but Giannis' defense in the paint!

Yeah, lets just gloss over the guy who's actually anchoring the paint for the Bucks and who's one of the favorites for DPOY. That's just focus on the guy who does it part-time on his own team.

And it's not that he's riding their coattails on defense, he just doesn't have as an important role on defense as they do. He's still an integral part to their defense. That's not what's up for debate here.

You ran up in here with stats making him out to be their main/best paint protector, and I debunked that shyt.

And as I stated to you, why would the Bucks possibly put him in a position where he would need to anchor them on offense and defense? That's what the rest of the team is for. The coaching staff and the organization wouldn't be doing their jobs properly if they put him in a position where he had to be that guy on both ends of the floor.

Leave all the donkey work to the lesser players, and have Giannis save his energy for actions where he can be at his best.

Here's some stats for you @Long Live The Kane:

In the 2015 playoffs - Dray defended 6.8 shots in the paint (11th in volume), holding opponents -6.8% under their average
In the 2016 playoffs - Dray defended 8.7 shots in the paint (1st in volume), holding opponents -16.1% under their average.
In the 2017 playoffs - Dray defended 6.7 shots in the paint (4th in volume), holding opponents -11.6% under their average
In the 2018 playoffs - Dray defended 7.5 shots in the paint (6th in volume), holding opponents -11% under their average
In the 2019 playoffs - Dray defended 6.9 shots in the paint (11th in volume), holding opponents -12.8% under their average
In the 2022 playoffs - Dray defended 5.1 shots in the paint (22nd in volume), holding opponents -16.6% under their average.

Keep in mind too that these are per game averages, and Dray played more games than almost every single player in each of those playoffs, so it makes his numbers that more impressive that he was able to sustain that level of paint protection for six Finals runs. It's why he is the best defensive player of his generation.

Dray led the league in total shots defended in the paint in five of the six of those postseasons. Is that enough volume for you?

Now dig, Giannis has been to the playoffs seven times and the highest he's ranked in volume was 36th at 4.4 shots defended in the paint.

Marinate on that.

I bet you ain't gonna be tagging @Thavoiceofthevoiceless after this.

This is still being ignored.

Now @Thavoiceofthevoiceless this is what downplaying a player looks like when you’re an insecure autistic dweeb that realizes you’ve been caught up making a dumb ass nonsensical point that contradicts the last 8 years of narratives you’ve spent obsessing over on a messageboard…so you beg for a grown man’s attention all day on Valentine’s Day, and respond to the same goddamn post like 6 times with walls of text of parsing bullshyt


Defense isn’t a zero sum game…. The fact that Giannis plays with another great rim protecting big doesn’t mean that Giannis being statistically the best at altering shots at the rim is all “not meaningful” …it’s the reason the bucks have a top defense in the league…great defenders amplify the effectiveness of other great defenders, not the opposite

5 contests at the rim isn’t some super low insignificant number, it’s exactly in line with what the best switchable, mobile, versatile defenders in the league average (draymond and JJJ were cited in the original post I made for a reason…as they play that same role and average vert near the same amount of rim contests)…if Draymond played with Brook his rim contests would stay damn near right where they are or slightly dip, but that wouldn’t make him any less impactful…it’d just make the dubs better and more versatile

Giannis being elite in that regard is a huge reason why Milwaukee has a championship level defense and it allows them to adapt to situations like last night when Lopez (their DPOY candidate that somehow makes Giannis defensive impact not meaningful ) was played off the floor and the bucks had to go to a Giannis at center lineup …like they had to do in the finals when they won the chip and I’m sure they’ll have to do in large stints in the playoffs this year…and a huge reason Giannis will be All Defense this year and a huge part, to the threads topic, he’s having a great year

 

[Bonk]

Now @Thavoiceofthevoiceless this is what downplaying a player looks like when you’re an insecure autistic dweeb that realizes you’ve been caught up making a dumb ass nonsensical point that contradicts the last 8 years of narratives you’ve spent obsessing over on a messageboard…so you beg for a grown man’s attention all day on Valentine’s Day, and respond to the same goddamn post like 6 times with walls of text of parsing bullshyt


Defense isn’t a zero sum game…. The fact that Giannis plays with another great rim protecting big doesn’t mean that Giannis being statistically the best at altering shots at the rim is all “not meaningful” …it’s the reason the bucks have a top defense in the league…great defenders amplify the effectiveness of other great defenders, not the opposite

5 contests at the rim isn’t some super low insignificant number, it’s exactly in line with what the best switchable, mobile, versatile defenders in the league average (draymond and JJJ were cited in the original post I made for a reason…as they play that same role and average vert near the same amount of rim contests)…if Draymond played with Brook his rim contests would stay damn near right where they are or slightly dip, but that wouldn’t make him any less impactful…it’d just make the dubs better and more versatile

Giannis being elite in that regard is a huge reason why Milwaukee has a championship level defense and it allows them to adapt to situations like last night when Lopez (their DPOY candidate that somehow makes Giannis defensive impact not meaningful ) was played off the floor and the bucks had to go to a Giannis at center lineup …like they had to do in the finals when they won the chip and I’m sure they’ll have to do in large stints in the playoffs this year…and a huge reason Giannis will be All Defense this year and a huge part, to the threads topic, he’s having a great year

Great post.

The Jokic/Doncic stan would juelz his way out of this one.

This subforum is very pathetic hence I seldom post here. Everything is always about parroting agenda-driven media talking points or dumb takes.

When you watch Bucks regularly - Brook Lopez is mostly unplayable most nights especially against teams with athletic wings hence Bucks always struggle against young athletic teams. And he’s useless against bugs that can shoot cos they always cook him. Muscala & Blake Griffin cooked him yesterday & Valanciunes dropped almost 40 on his head earlier this season.

Giannis is the heart & soul of Bucks defense & it’s ludicrous to argue otherwise. Numbers won’t show how Giannis’ length alters a lot of things & he can switch from 1-5. They don’t record some of his stats & a classic example is the game sealing steal against Grant Williams yesterday.

 

[Bonk]

Giannis has been the best player in the NBA since 2019 & he should have at least 3 MVPs right now.

But they’ll give the stat-padding & efficiency obsessed fat cac who’s a cone on defense despite barring Giannis from winning 3 straight MVPs by citing the asinine ‘voters’ fatigue’ & ‘how he needs to show up in the playoffs’. Interestingly, that isn’t applicable to the fat cac.

ESPN is leading the anti-Giannis campaign of calumny like they did with Kobe.

Jokic will NEVER win an NBA title as a first option.

 

[Street Knowledge]

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Now @Thavoiceofthevoiceless this is what downplaying a player looks like when you’re an insecure autistic dweeb that realizes you’ve been caught up making a dumb ass nonsensical point that contradicts the last 8 years of narratives you’ve spent obsessing over on a messageboard…so you beg for a grown man’s attention all day on Valentine’s Day, and respond to the same goddamn post like 6 times with walls of text of parsing bullshyt

@Thavoiceofthevoiceless this is what embarrassing yourself looks like.




Look at this dikkriding ass fakkit can't even stick to the topic at hand because he knows his shyt got debunked, so he desperately tries to deflect with ad hominem to cover up for the fact he doesn't anything to argue in counter with.

There's nothing nonsensical about my argument. The nonsense is coming from your end because you cherry-picked some stats without the appropriate context, and instead of admitting fault, you choose to double down with your bullshyt. It's par for the course with your posting.

Defense isn’t a zero sum game…. The fact that Giannis plays with another great rim protecting big doesn’t mean that Giannis being statistically the best at altering shots at the rim is all “not meaningful” …it’s the reason the bucks have a top defense in the league…great defenders amplify the effectiveness of other great defenders, not the opposite

Again, the problem with this [false] belief is that Giannis is allowed to pick and choose his moments because he's not tasked with defending the paint for the majority of the game like Brook is. Giannis can come and go as he pleases during defensive possessions as a weakside help defender in the paint - he doesn't have to constantly defend the opposition's best players whenever they choose to attack that area of the floor. Again, I must emphasize that with Middleton out for most of this season, Giannis has to had to conserve his energy more for offense, so his defensive responsibilities have been diluted even more. The Bucks have made sure he doesn't exert unnecessary energy on defense doing donkey work or picking up unnecessary fouls.

There's a reason why he's ranked 80th in the league in total field goals defended per game, despite averaging 33 minutes. There's a reason why he's only 4th in defensive possession time on his own team despite playing the most minutes.

That doesn't means to say he isn't effective in the moments he does, it just means he's not as important/impactful as Brook (at protecting the paint/rim).

The equivalent would be gassing up a 2nd/3rd option on offense and ignoring what the 1st option is doing.

No greater example of this than Brook only playing 13 games last season and the Bucks only having an average defense. They were ranked middle-of-the-pack in paint protection last season without him, but are one of the best this season with him.

5 contests at the rim isn’t some super low insignificant number, it’s exactly in line with what the best switchable, mobile, versatile defenders in the league average (draymond and JJJ were cited in the original post I made for a reason…as they play that same role and average vert near the same amount of rim contests).

The number is largely insignificant because there's a player on his own team who contests nearly 2x as much. It means that player is taking on the heaviest reps of protecting the paint against the best players more often. Giannis can pick and choose his moments more, as I need to keep reiterating, therefore, being more selective allows him to be more effective than he typically would if he was doing it as often as Brook does. Something would break for Giannis, as he would not have the energy and purpose to anchor the paint on defense, battling with bigs and guards constantly attacking him on every possession, and then having the energy to go down the other end of the floor and be his best self on offense. If you had actually watched the Bucks for the first third of this season, his efficiency on offense was the worst its been since he became a star, and that was because he had added responsibility without Middleton, so just imagine how much worse he would've been if he had to do what Brook does on defense?

As per the equivalent above on offense - you wouldn't be trying to put all the focus on the 2nd/3rd option for how the offense is performing and ignoring the #1 option would you?

This goes for almost everything Giannis does on defense. I'm going to keep reiterating this - he's allowed to pick and choose because the rest of the team are the ones picking up the slack on that end of the floor, which allows him to be at his best on offense. It's the case for almost every #1 option.

if Draymond played with Brook his rim contests would stay damn near right where they are or slightly dip, but that wouldn’t make him any less impactful…it’d just make the dubs better and more versatile

If Draymond had a Brook on his team, everyone would be trying to draw focus to the fact he had one of the best rim protectors in the league covering for him, they most certainly wouldn't be doing what you're doing right now and highlighting his paint defense at the expense of Brook's. shyt, folks still do that with Draymond now - they say he's only good because of the system he's in, ignoring the fact that he is the system. Having Brook alongside him would only give them more ammo to devalue his defensive impact and worth.

But more to that point, if Dray played with Brook, than I certainly wouldn't be trying to put all the attention on Dray's paint protection because I'd identify and acknowledge that Brook is the one who's holding it down in that space of the floor.

Giannis being elite in that regard is a huge reason why Milwaukee has a championship level defense

Strictly for the purposes of this argument he's not "elite" in that regard, and most certainly isn't a "huge reason" why Milwaukee has a championship-level defense.

As I pointed out to you before in the post that you glossed over - the highest he's ranked in the playoffs for volume in protecting the paint is 36th, which was last season, which funnily enough, all of Middleton, Lopez and Jrue averaged similar amount of shots defended in the paint during those 12 playoff games. During their championship run in 2021, he ranked 46th in volume, and only held opponents to -8% below their average, whereas Brook defended more shots in the paint and held opponents to -18% below their average.

That doesn't mean to say his defense isn't an integral part, but it's not nearly as impactful as you and folks make it seem.

it allows them to adapt to situations like last night when Lopez (their DPOY candidate that somehow makes Giannis defensive impact not meaningful ) was played off the floor and the bucks had to go to a Giannis at center lineup …

Adapting to that situation is far and few between the norm.

Brook defends more shots than any player in the league. Let me reiterate that - he's #1 in the league in shots defended per game. How could you possibly cherry-pick one particular game where the Bucks ended up going small to match the Celtics as some great illustration of their "championship-level defense" as if Brook isn't the one anchoring that?

Funnily enough, the Bucks could only hold the Celtics to 63.6% in the paint during that game, so it wasn't as if that Giannis at center lineup was actually stopping the Celtics from doing what they wanted in the paint, anyway, and that was without Tatum, Brown, Smart and Horford.

like they had to do in the finals when they won the chip and I’m sure they’ll have to do in large stints in the playoffs this year…and a huge reason Giannis will be All Defense this year and a huge part, to the threads topic, he’s having a great year

Is that why Giannis has only maxed out at 36th in volume in paint protection during the playoffs because he's this all-defining defensive piece in that space of the floor for the Bucks? Is that why by your own admission of valuing All-Defensive teams, you're ignoring the likelihood that Brook will make it too? Is that why you're ignoring the fact that Brook is a favorite for DPOY this season, largely because of his paint protection? Or are you going to tell me that Brook is in the running for DPOY for his perimeter defense?

Just like Giannis is able to pick and choose when to assert himself on defense, here you are picking and choosing what criteria you want to acknowledge instead of weighing up everything in equal measure.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

It's funny how you've still yet to address this and admit fault by trying to call me out for my supposed inconsistencies -

Now THIS is what you call “downplaying” @Thavoiceofthevoiceless

Son done spent untold man hours touting Draymond as one of the greatest rim protectors in basketball, defending the rim at more or less the same volume the same rate as Giannis this year over the course of the entire Warriors dynasty….

Here's some stats for you @Long Live The Kane:

In the 2015 playoffs - Dray defended 6.8 shots in the paint (11th in volume), holding opponents -6.8% under their average
In the 2016 playoffs - Dray defended 8.7 shots in the paint (1st in volume), holding opponents -16.1% under their average.
In the 2017 playoffs - Dray defended 6.7 shots in the paint (4th in volume), holding opponents -11.6% under their average
In the 2018 playoffs - Dray defended 7.5 shots in the paint (6th in volume), holding opponents -11% under their average
In the 2019 playoffs - Dray defended 6.9 shots in the paint (11th in volume), holding opponents -12.8% under their average
In the 2022 playoffs - Dray defended 5.1 shots in the paint (22nd in volume), holding opponents -16.6% under their average.

Keep in mind too that these are per game averages, and Dray played more games than almost every single player in each of those playoffs, so it makes his numbers that more impressive that he was able to sustain that level of paint protection for six Finals runs. It's why he is the best defensive player of his generation.

Dray led the league in total shots defended in the paint in five of the six of those postseasons. Is that enough volume for you?

Now dig, Giannis has been to the playoffs seven times and the highest he's ranked in volume was 36th at 4.4 shots defended in the paint.

Marinate on that.

I bet you ain't gonna be tagging @Thavoiceofthevoiceless after this.

This will continue to be ignored by @Long Live The Kane.