@GilScottHeroin: Luka has a bigger offensive impact than Kareem

[No Homo]

The point hes trying to make isn't really hard to understand

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

The point hes trying to make isn't really hard to understand

These dudes intentionally play dumb whenever I post. It's par for the course.

 

[THE MACHINE]

Complain about all the threes being shot these days, then say Kareem would still be Kareem today brehs

 

[I.AM.PIFF]

Kareem is arguably the GOAT, but his point isn't hard to understand at all.

Luka's leading the Mavs to the best offense in the league so far (in terms of ORTG) while only playing with Porzingis, who's not the same player he used to be pre-injury, and a bunch of role players while being the primary scorer and ball-handler and averaging damn near 30/10/10.

The nature of today's game would make KAJ much less impactful than he was in his prime.

 

[HTXBreh]

Kareem is arguably the GOAT, but his point isn't hard to understand at all.

Luka's leading the Mavs to the best offense in the league so far (in terms of ORTG) while only playing with Porzingis, who's not the same player he used to be pre-injury, and a bunch of role players while being the primary scorer and ball-handler and averaging damn near 30/10/10.

The nature of today's game would make KAJ much less impactful than he was in his prime.

Kareem could slow the pace and completely wreck the league.He would force you to play basketball his was like the Gasol,Randolph Grizzlies.

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

Kareem could slow the pace and completely wreck the league.He would force you to play basketball his was like the Gasol,Randolph Grizzlies.

Most important question no one is asking
Who the fukk is stopping his hook shot?

 

[Kenny_Powers]

Cap fukked @Gil Scott-Heroin ‘s mom and aunties.

 

[Inertia Creeps]

The point hes trying to make isn't really hard to understand

Yea it really isn't, it's just dumb as hell and completely incorrect

 

[Long Live The Mamba]

I hope you brehs in here ready for the multi post tags and the walls of texts that are about to come

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Most important question no one is asking
Who the fukk is stopping his hook shot?

Nobody.

But as I need to keep pointing out, he's not going to have the same post-up opportunities in today's league, that he did in 70s, to utilize the hook shot. Luka has the control to shoot whenever he wants. And regardless of that, self-scoring only makes up a part of one's offensive impact; there's creation/playmaking for other players, there's dictating who touches the ball, there's what sets/actions the team runs, there's generation and maximization of runs, how much defensive attention they attract on every possession - all of that makes up one's offensive impact.

Seems I need to post this again:

"These are the top-10 teams in post-up volume:

Every single team except for the 76ers (whose post-up possessions only make up 12.7% of their total offensive possessions) barely use post-ups. This isn't the 70s when teams would use post-up actions on nearly every possession. This is why Cap (or any big man from the past) wouldn't have the same offensive impact in today's league because the game is different where it's centered around PnR and 3-pt shooting."

I don't see how anyone that's using their heads could argue against this.

 

[Codeine Bryant]

Gil made a lot of enemies on this forum throughout the years

OP posted 5 lines out of an entire post talking about what every single poster on this forum already knows about the modern NBA: shyt is a 3 point shooting contest and a PnR fest with ball-dominant PGs/wings having insane usage rates

Trae, Harden, Luka, LeBron off top. Westbrook a couple years ago.

We’ve all seen it. We all know it. Majority of this forum and the public bemoans how 3-centric the game has become. Back-to-basket post players are dinosaurs.

Embiid and AD would be putting up Shaq numbers if this was 1995. Instead it’s 2019, and yes, guys like Luka and Trae and Harden have more impact in today’s game than even KAJ.

KAJ still the better player over Luka and Trae and Harden, but get those daps, brehs

 

[calh45]

It doesn't really have anything to do with Luka, it's more so to illustrate a point around how big men in today's league have limited offensive impact. Luka was just an example, as was Cap.

You could swap both players out with similar replacements and the point would remain the same.

That's more or less what I'm trying to point out.

If anyone bothered to actually click on that post and read the context behind it, I'm talking about how in today's league, with the emphasis on 3-pt shooting, and how the lead ball-handler (who's also the main scorer) has more impact and influence on offense than a big man does.

Folks have shytted on AD for not being able to lead a team, but it's more to do with the fact that he's a big man, and can't lead a team (on offense) like a LeBron, Luka, Steph etc can.

If you're not the main ball-handler and/or you're not a prolific 3-pt shooter, you're going to have limited impact on offense, today. That's the state of the game now.

I'm watched more tape on Cap than 99% of posters on this board.

Regardless of that, it's not about Cap v. the competition he played, it's about Cap (or any other big man) in today's climate.

And what do Cap's historical feats have to do with him playing in today's league?


No beef/hate; he's one of the GOATs.

His place in history and what he did during his day is irrelevant to the discussion of what he'd do in today's league.

I'm illustrating a point on how big men like Anthony Davis' impact on offense is limited because he doesn't control the offense. The impact he has on that end is more centered around his own scoring (and that's only when his teammates chose to give him the ball), and less with anything else on that end. What better way to layer that point than to reference arguably the greatest and most decorated big man to ever play the game, and relate it to the impact he'd have in today's league.

Well, for starters, I don't know what the fukk 25 rebounds have to do with the offensive side of things (unless you think those rebounds would be predominantly on the offensive glass). Never mind the fact that it's not even remotely possible to average that amount of rebounds today.

Cap averaged 35 points on 25 shots, averaging 44 mins, in 1972, when the league-average pace was around 108-110 possessions
In 2019/2020 the league-average pace is only 101 possessions

Do you wanna explain to me how Cap would average 40 points in today's league where post-up play isn't as prioritized as it was in the 70s, and guards/wings have more control over what happens, and there aren't as many possessions? Do you really think that Cap would be putting up 25+ shots a game in today's league? Do you really think Cap would be playing 40+ mins in today's league, especially given the regularity of small-ball lineups, where teams use big men who can guard in space and on switches, rather than a traditional center like Cap?

Just because players big men now don't develop post skills doesn't mean KAJ would be ineffective. He would get 25 shots on the block doing the sky hook while being guarded by centers who are scared of going into the paint. This is the league that a team put Marcus Smart on a "skilled" offensive center and he got shut down. It would be an easy 2 points or a wide open 3s off a double team. It's not a juggernaut that plays too fast for big men. It's a league that transformed because all of the big men grew up pretending to be Kobe or Dirk instead of learning how to work in the post like Shaq or Duncan.

 

[Columbo]

Its hard for me to think in terms of strictly offense. Kareems defense would effect the offense because it would lead to fast break opportunities

He could also probably shoot at an even higher percentage in todays league. Since post play isnt prioritized todays players dont have much experience defending against someone like Kareem with his combination of height, length and skill.

Kareem aint no Joel Embiid, or i should say Joel Embiid aint no Kareem. Kareem was a real superstar player that would dominate any era

I dont deny that Luka has been a top player in the league to this point of the season but i want to see what he can do in the playoffs before i could consider him being more impactful then Kareem

 

[Deep_Black_Conscious]

Its hard for me to think in terms of strictly offense. Kareems defense would effect the offense because it would lead to fast break opportunities

He could also probably shoot at an even higher percentage in todays league. Since post play isnt prioritized todays players dont have much experience defending against someone like Kareem with his combination of height, length and skill.

Kareem aint no Joel Embiid, or i should say Joel Embiid aint no Kareem. Kareem was a real superstar player that would dominate any era

I dont deny that Luka has been a top player in the league to this point of the season but i want to see what he can do in the playoffs before i could consider him being more impactful then Kareem

It's like, what's the point of being great if threads like these are going to be made?

People downplaying your GOATness and trying to simplify it to era

Nah motherfukkers I'm great in any era would be KAJ's response

The same will happen to Jordan and eventually Lebron

People start questioning the legend

People rarely even mention Wilt when they talk about GOATs for example
but I'm sure in his era no one thought there would be anyone better

Your greatness will be questioned, and eventually forgotten

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Just because players big men now don't develop post skills doesn't mean KAJ would be ineffective.

See, this is what happens when you make an argument about a topic, it then gets taken completely out of context, far removed from the point you're trying to make; at no point do I state that Cap would be "ineffective" nor do I insinuate as such.

There are plenty of big men who have and develop post-games, except that's been faded into the background, and PnR and space/pace have come into focus. Post-ups are complementary to offenses, largely due to the emphasis of the 3-ball and the postionless state of the game.

He would get 25 shots on the block doing the sky hook while being guarded by centers who are scared of going into the paint.

There's absolutely no situation where Cap is averaging 25 shots in today's league. None.

You're speaking in hyperbole that's reflective of old-head rhetoric who believe MJ would average 50 ppg, today. None of this shyt is grounded in reality; it's nothing more than comic-book shyt that y'all use to mythologize your heroes.

Let me put this into perspective:

Cap averaged 22 shot attempts from ages 22-30, averaging 41 minutes, during seasons when the average-pace ranged from 106-110+ possessions.
Last season the average-pace was 100 possessions.

Now how would he even come close to averaging 25 shots, when he would only be playing around 35 minutes, today, with less post-up opportunities, less touches, and against greater defensive schemes?

It's a league that transformed because all of the big men grew up pretending to be Kobe or Dirk instead of learning how to work in the post like Shaq or Duncan.

It's less to do with that and more to do with the fact that teams smartened up and stopped following tradition and realized what leads to the best productive/efficient results.