Glenn Loury & John McWhorter speak on standardized testing in the Black community

Discussion in 'Higher Learning' started by Take It In Blood, Mar 2, 2021.

  1. DEAD7

    DEAD7 Veteran Hall of Fame Supporter

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    To be fair the federal government can’t(or is unwilling to) address race in any meaningful way... classism is it’s only approach.


    Edit: I think you yourself have made several threads detailing how/why give can’t craft racially targeted policies.
     
  2. eXodus

    eXodus Superstar Supporter

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    5 stars and subbed, not because of McWhorter and Loury’s opinions but because I enjoy these discussions on here and think they are valuable
     
  3. Rekkapryde

    Rekkapryde GT, LWO, GGKTA, BRAVES, HAWKS, N4O...yeah UMAD! Hall of Fame Supporter

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    because too many of our people don't value it. they say they do, but they don't.

    make time for it.

    mufukkaz can't attend a PTA meeting, but make sure they show up for the ball game and shyt :stopitslime:
     
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  4. NZA

    NZA I'm here live...I'm not a cat.

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    why would any rational american use pakistan as an example of what to do? they have heroin addicted boys selling bussy on the streets. clearly our average scores are dragged severely down by the fact that we attempt to educate 100% of all children no matter how poor or trifling their situation is. in other countries, they just write off whole swaths of the population and focus resources on the best bets.
     
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  5. EndDomination

    EndDomination Veteran Supporter

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    I took the LSAT but I didn't take any courses :russ:
    I will be taking a bar course, but that's because it's specialized and even with a pretty good grasp on 3 years of law school subject matter I would absolutely fail otherwise
     
  6. EndDomination

    EndDomination Veteran Supporter

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    There are a lot of causal factors I've seen taken into account: local school quality, after-school/summer program attendance and quality, parental education, certain language conventions on standardized tests, parent/guardian test experience prior.

    As you move from poor to upper-class, Black students scores rise-accordingly; when you add in day/boarding school experience as well the same is true.

    I've yet to see a study controlling for all of these factors yet.
     
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  7. EndDomination

    EndDomination Veteran Supporter

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    Realized you said what I was trying to in a far more robust way.
     
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  8. EndDomination

    EndDomination Veteran Supporter

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    Conservatives have spent the last 60 years fighting back against the federal government addressing race :heh:
    To the point where now there are ridiculous bars on judicial review of federal race-conscious policy.

    Classism gets at the heart of "most" things, not all of them, and race still functions as a proxy in many ways.
     
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  9. Wild self

    Wild self The Black Man will prosper! Supporter

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    Even in HL and TLR, people always want black kids to be like the Chinese kids with studying habits and violating their rights. Always wanting black kids to be on some "Asians students doing professional scientific research at age 13; if you not on that level, you will never succeed and earn a living wage!!!"

    And those countries now have setbacks and social horrors from that extreme obsession of studying, at the expense of their humanity, such as weak social skills, toleration to abusive authority, and not thinking outside the box.
     
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  10. Rhakim

    Rhakim Veteran Poster of the Year Supporter

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    I knew I'd forget something - familiarity with the language conventions on tests and parental education levels are both factors that makes a difference in addition to the nine i listed.

    And like you said, studies rarely control for all of this. Most importantly, watch the studies that are supposed to control for socioeconomic class always do it by income, but not by wealth or actual standard of living.
     
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  11. ogc163

    ogc163 Superstar

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    The scores rising is not a relevant point, every racial group scores increase relative to their poorer peers when you consider class. It's what the scores are relative to their similar socioeconomic background/ class-based peers that I'm interested in.

    I'm interested if and why there is a gap between Black students and their non-Black peers as you go up the socioeconomic ladder. Whether those gaps are small or large, and again if so why? And in cases where those resources gaps are closed do the tests gaps still persist?

    I get cats getting upset with McWhorter over his delivery regarding culture, but Ronald F. Ferguson is an expert in the field and has come to similar conclusions, albeit in a much different tone.



    The relevant parts are timestamped, but the entire video is interesting..
     
  12. EndDomination

    EndDomination Veteran Supporter

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    I noted the reasons why in my post, as did @Rhakim Ferguson's data doesn't control for schooling, after-school summer program attendance, and language conventions - I think there's quite an interesting grouping convention as well.

    "Asian", when broken down, produces radically different scores, same for "Hispanic/Latino" - because we're referring to race and ethnicity at the same time, which is erroneous.

    A generational comparison of Filipino and Vietnamese-American students versus African-American produces a different result entirely than, say, Japanese or Chinese-American.

    Many of the conclusions come from data that has yet to have been properly analyzed controlling for these specific variables.

    "Culture" is elastic for a reason, and without a consistent framework for what it actually encompasses, you allow for a massive lens to view things through.
     
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  13. Get These Nets

    Get These Nets Veteran

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    At the risk of it happening again, I have to post this video. The assessment test that was mentioned by Loury is The National Assessment of Educational Progress.

    This is the most recent video about the topic, from 2018
     
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  14. ogc163

    ogc163 Superstar

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    Two brothers discuss the desire to rename the racial achievement gap and the role of wokeness/critical race theory within education reform. Overall a good discussion.
     
  15. TENET

    TENET [uk]

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    persistent stress (such as excessive physical abuse) over time during childhood, lessens ability to form memories and lowers scores on standardized testing.

    :sas2:
     

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