Greg Popovich Talking @ The Warriors: :wow:

[Gravity]

You're the one who's making the assertion that the league is now trash compared to seasons/eras in the past -

And you're trying to challenge my assertion. If you're not going to qualify yourself then there's no need to even challenge me.

Lowry's having a better season than Tee Bee ever had, and pretty much has an advantage in every area on the offensive side of the ball compared to a 25/26 yo Brandon.

Save the sassy feminine shyt and just make your argument fakkit.

You're just a stat boy geek. You using nicknames doesn't hide the fact that you don't know what the fukk you're talking about.

You can't judge Lowry's stats against Brandon's stats as if they are playing in the same league under the same rules. The rule changes have caused the game to be played differently now. The game is much more perimeter oriented/friendly now compared to '95. The court is a lot more spread out and teams aren't allowed to play the same kind of defense. It's a lot easier for guards now vs back then. Besides, you talk like there's a huge gap in their stats when there isn't. Lowry averages 2 more points while shooting 4% lower from the field and averaging less assists with more turnovers. Lowry wouldn't even put these same numbers up in the league that Brandon played in.

Most definitely not. That Magic squad had trouble against perimeter scorers all season long - against LeBron, Kyrie, Love and JR - they would comfortably beat them 4-2. They'd let Shaq get his, and concentrate on shutting down Penny, Anderson, Scott and Horace. Dudes forget that the Cavs were the best defensive team in the playoffs last season - shutting down two top-10 defenses in the process. The Magic wouldn't have the 3-pt shooting advantage they did against the league in 1996 against the Cavs.

You didn't say anything here. "They would just let Shaq get his and concentrate on shutting everyone else down". Like you can speak on exactly the type of coaching strategy would be used. Like no coaches thought of that and tried to use that strategy back then. Like it's just a given that the Cavs would be able to execute that strategy. Who's going to stop those other 4 double digit scorers while Shaq is dominating the paint? JR, Kyrie, and Love? Like those cats are defensive stoppers known for shutting down good offensive players. The Cavs had the best defense in the playoffs last year without Kyrie and Love while playing against trash competition. People didn't say that they had a cake walk to the finals for nothing.

Pacers and Knicks were the only good teams (out of the secondary list) - the Heat, Pistons and Hawks weren't. Pacers and Knicks would be on the Bulls, Heat and Hawks (of this season) level now. Those other "legit good teams" you mentioned would be around the Wizards and Pistons (of this season) level.

The Pacers, Hawks, Knicks, Pistons and Bulls were all better back then than they are now. To put this in perspective look at the Hornets. They are basically on pace to have the same record this year as they did in '95 but only an idiot would argue that this team is as good as the '95 team. That Heat team wasn't that good yet back in '95 but they're much better than the team who will be the 8th seed in the east this year. There's really no comparison here the east was much better back then.

This is the problem you're enamoured with names, and would take players who have the advantage of having their careers finished (HOF eligibility) on worse teams against this Raptors squad who not only has better top-talent by also are a straight up better squad. Especially since the Heat , Hawks and Pistons only had a few HOF players between the three of them. Nobody in their right mind would try to talk up the Heat as a legit good team that season - they were anything but.

More sassy feminine shyt Stop trying to deflect with that stupid psychology and just deal with my arguments.

You keep talking up this Raptors team that hasn't won shyt and won't win shyt. They just aren't that good I don't care what their record is. You also keep harping on that Heat team like they were mediocre and didn't win 60 games the next year. They were clearly a good team in the making that just hadn't came all the way together yet. Again tho, they were playing against much tougher competition back then so who knows how good that '95 team would be in this league where the competition isn't as good. You put that Heat team led by Riley with Zo and Hardaway in the current east and they finish a lot better than 8th.

Yet you've only brought up ONE season as evidence (which you're wrong about). I refuted every single one of your points - you brought up names of adage, like a casual fan would - I told you how good those teams were (strengths/weaknesses and their team situation) and how good they would in relation to the league today.

Can you even breakdown how those teams in 95/96 would beat the teams of today?

Just because you type a bunch of your dumb opinions in response to what I've said doesn't mean that you've refuted anything. You haven't refuted anything I've said. You haven't really said ahit other than "I'm right and you're wrong". No team is perfect so you pointing out some weaknesses of the teams in the 90's doesn't refute the claim that teams were better then compared to now. You're just exposing how irrational and biased you are. Anybody who truly thinks that the eastern conference is just as good now as it was in '95 is a fukking idiot who's not to be taken seriously. You either didn't see those teams play or you're a argumentative clown who would argue against the sky being blue.

 

[Guess Who]

I actually agree with @Gravity that the quality of the league as a whole is not as good as it used to be, however that shouldn't take away from what Golden State is doing. They are a team that would stack up well in ANY era--definitely an all-time team. As for OKC, the Spurs, and the Cavs (and the Raptors), none of those teams really impress me that much (well maybe the Spurs).

Many of these young guys in the league now are simply not as fundamentally sound and as nuanced in their understanding of the game as in years past--they're just better at shooting the three-ball. But other aspects of the game--post-moves have all but disappeared, the mid-range game is completely dying, ball-fakes/pivots/jab steps are little used, purposeful ball movement only exists for a handful of teams, I've never seen so many teams fail at running simple fast-breaks in my life, and overall there is just a lot of bonehead decision-making on the offensive side of the ball on a lot of teams in the league. These new guys are bigger and more athletic and shoot the 3 better, but they don't seem to understand what's a good basketball decision versus what's a bad basketball decision as well as in previous eras, and it just makes for an ugly game a lot of the time.

And I've never seen a league with this few true superstars. You got Curry, Lebron, KD, and Westbrook...that's kind of it.

With that being said, Minnesota is going to be a problem in three years.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

And you're trying to challenge my assertion. If you're not going to qualify yourself then there's no need to even challenge me.

You only give one season as an example (one of the most standard ones in recent memory), yet you don't even how the capabilities and inabilities of the teams that did make the playoffs. All you're doing is bringing up household names and making out that ends the argument.

Save the sassy feminine shyt and just make your argument fakkit.

Your caciness seeps through everytime you make a comment like this.

You're just a stat boy geek. You using nicknames doesn't hide the fact that you don't know what the fukk you're talking about.

You can't judge Lowry's stats against Brandon's stats as if they are playing in the same league under the same rules. The rule changes have caused the game to be played differently now. The game is much more perimeter oriented/friendly now compared to '95. The court is a lot more spread out and teams aren't allowed to play the same kind of defense. It's a lot easier for guards now vs back then. Besides, you talk like there's a huge gap in their stats when there isn't. Lowry averages 2 more points while shooting 4% lower from the field and averaging less assists with more turnovers. Lowry wouldn't even put these same numbers up in the league that Brandon played in.

i) The court is a lot more spread out because teams utilize the advantages of points/per shot with the 3-ball more now (another advantage Toronto would have)
ii) Lowry shares the main option touches with DeRozan - his box score averages don't begin to show how good he's playing this season. He'd be putting up close to 25 ppg this season if he didn't have another 20 ppg scorer on his team. He's better at breaking down defenses, getting to the rim and finishing, controlling the pace (pushing or slowing down in favor of his offense), scoring/taking games over. If you actually watched them play this season - you wouldn't be spouting this dumb shyt.
iii) The Raptors have far more variance in their lineups (due to better personnel) to shut that Cavs team down if Cleveland wanted to play at their pace - their frontcourt scoring was basically non-existent so they wouldn't have to worry about Scola and Val becoming net negatives on that side. They would pretty much have the advantage on offense from 1-5 (except Mills/DeMarre). Lowry and DeRozan's two-man game would eat against that Cavs defense - Cleveland simply wouldn't have an answer.

You didn't say anything here. "They would just let Shaq get his and concentrate on shutting everyone else down". Like you can speak on exactly the type of coaching strategy would be used. Like no coaches thought of that and tried to use that strategy back then. Like it's just a given that the Cavs would be able to execute that strategy. Who's going to stop those other 4 double digit scorers while Shaq is dominating the paint?

You're unbelievable - you're the one making the claim, yet you want me to disprove it before you've even made a proper, substantiated basis. No team during the mid/late 90s forced the Magic into taking mid-range shots, while forcing them off the 3-pt line and directly loading up on Shaq - similar tactics the Cavs employed all throughout the second half of the season and postseason.

JR, Kyrie, and Love? Like those cats are defensive stoppers known for shutting down good offensive players. The Cavs had the best defense in the playoffs last year without Kyrie and Love while playing against trash competition. People didn't say that they had a cake walk to the finals for nothing.

Despite having the odd mental lapse, JR's one of the best perimeter defenders on the squad. Despite the struggles the Hawks had without a star to carry them, they were still one of the best teams in the league last season. Grouping them in as being "trash" basically explains your inability to judge the abilities and talent of teams. You're in calling the '15 Hawks "trash", yet said the '96 Heat were a legitimately good team.

The Pacers, Hawks, Knicks, Pistons and Bulls were all better back then than they are now. To put this in perspective look at the Hornets. They are basically on pace to have the same record this year as they did in '95 but only an idiot would argue that this team is as good as the '95 team.

Now you're not making any sense. First of not only was that 96 Hornets squad absolutely horrible on defense (the '16 Hornets have one of the better defenses), they weren't much better than the current Hornets on offense either. With a healthy MKG, this team matches up well against the '96 predecessor.

As for your stance about the Pacers, Hawks, Knicks, Pistons and Bulls being better than they are now - not only are you wrong on the Hawks (especially last season's squad) - but I can too can play the game. The Celtics, Bucks, Raptors and Heat are better now than they were in 1996.

That Heat team wasn't that good yet back in '95 but they're much better than the team who will be the 8th seed in the east this year. There's really no comparison here the east was much better back then.

You did NOT watch the Heat back then when Zo played 70% of the season without a legit second option - it was pretty much him and scrubs on offense. Even with all the Heat's injuries and lack of chemistry this season, nobody in their right mind would say that 95/96 Heat squad were "much better". This is why I can't have a reasonable argument with you on this, because i) you didn't watch the league back then ii) those rose-coloured glasses of yours are blinding you of looking at this shyt with any sense with valuing these teams.

A healthy and focused

Dragic
Wade
Deng
Bosh
Whiteside

were definitively better than that 96 Heat team which were going through a transitional phase (they actually had one of the worst losing runs during the season too, which was partly the reason they made a big trade).

You keep talking up this Raptors team that hasn't won shyt and won't win shyt. They just aren't that good I don't care what their record is..

Spoken like somebody that doesn't know what they're talking about because they don't watch them play. There's no reasoning with you whatsoever.

You also keep harping on that Heat team like they were mediocre and didn't win 60 games the next year. They were clearly a good team in the making that just hadn't came all the way together yet.

You're clueless. You really are. First of all, you can't say that they were a good team in the making; who were going through a rebuilding phase were a much better team than this season's Heat. Despite Wade and Bosh not playing at the peak of their abilities, this experienced/vet team with more talent were flatout better. It's not even really arguable. Second of all, not only did Tim have a full offseason with the team (after the end of season trade), but they also signed Austin (who won the MIPOY award), Majerle, PJ (one of the best defensive bigs during that time) and Mashburn.

Again tho, they were playing against much tougher competition back then so who knows how good that '95 team would be in this league where the competition isn't as good. You put that Heat team led by Riley with Zo and Hardaway in the current east and they finish a lot better than 8th.

It wasn't tougher competition. Not only that but you're exposing yourself again - Hardaway only played the tail end of the regular season - Zo was doing it pretty much by himself. If this current Heat team is struggling to keep above .500, there's no chance that Zo/scrubs squad would do any better.

Just because you type a bunch of your dumb opinions in response to what I've said doesn't mean that you've refuted anything. You haven't refuted anything I've said. You haven't really said ahit other than "I'm right and you're wrong".

That's a pot calling the kettle black statement if I've ever seen one. All you're doing in here is regurgitating back-in-the-day false talking points.

No team is perfect so you pointing out some weaknesses of the teams in the 90's doesn't refute the claim that teams were better then compared to now.

I'm pointing out the fact that you don't know what you're talking about, and are clearly overrating some of those 90s teams.

You're just exposing how irrational and biased you are.

Irrational and biased? That would be you. The lack of self-awareness is amazing. You're speaking about teams you haven't even seen as if you actually watched them.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

They are a team that would stack up well in ANY era--definitely an all-time team. As for OKC, the Spurs, and the Cavs (and the Raptors), none of those teams really impress me that much (well maybe the Spurs).

The Spurs, Cavs and OKC would all be title contenders in 1996, and the Raptors would only be slightly behind the Magic as a tier two squad.

Many of these young guys in the league now are simply not as fundamentally sound and as nuanced in their understanding of the game as in years past--they're just better at shooting the three-ball. But other aspects of the game--post-moves have all but disappeared, the mid-range game is completely dying, ball-fakes/pivots/jab steps are little used, purposeful ball movement only exists for a handful of teams, I've never seen so many teams fail at running simple fast-breaks in my life, and overall there is just a lot of bonehead decision-making on the offensive side of the ball on a lot of teams in the league. These new guys are bigger and more athletic and shoot the 3 better, but they don't seem to understand what's a good basketball decision versus what's a bad basketball decision as well as in previous eras, and it just makes for an ugly game a lot of the time.

So this is what it basically comes down to - these teams are not as fundamentally sound as ones in the past - not that they weren't actually better and more talented, but because they lacked in your opinion as playing fundamentally sound basketball? The mid-range game is not dying, it's still there, except it's been used as a secondary jumpshot to the 3-ball - which is the more efficient shot. Is basketball a game of upholding tradition or actually utilizing the scoring system the best way you can possible?

It seems the common talking point with y''all ole back-in-the-day nikkas is based around aesthetics and not the direct value and ability of players/teams. The bone-headed decision-making you're talking about is mostly down to defenses being more complex and advanced, and offenses are trying to counter.

And I've never seen a league with this few true superstars. You got Curry, Lebron, KD, and Westbrook...that's kind of it.

You don't consider AD a superstar? This is the same issue you have with @Gravity, like he thinks there were more title contenders/great teams, you seem to think there were more superstars in previous eras/season. Previous eras had more superstar big men, but not superstars in general. The league always has had typically half a dozen superstars at any given time - I mean it stands to reason that the parameters when measuring a superstar coincide with the best teams.

IYO - who were the superstars during the 95/96 season?

With that being said, Minnesota is going to be a problem in three years.

I've said time and time again, the only area where this era falls in value is not having a transcendent SG (which really you could argue Kobe and Wade are still part of), and a superstar C, everything else is pretty much better or on par to previous eras.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

@Malta

This dude is trying to argue that the 95/96 Heat squad (Zo's first season when he was playing with scrubs - until the trade for Hardway/Gatling near the end of the season) is "much better" than this current Heat squad. And in turn would have a better record this season, than they did back then. This schmaltz rhetoric for previous eras makes dudes throw all sense out the window.

 

[Gravity]

You only give one season as an example (one of the most standard ones in recent memory), yet you don't even how the capabilities and inabilities of the teams that did make the playoffs. All you're doing is bringing up household names and making out that ends the argument.

Your caciness seeps through everytime you make a comment like this.



i) The court is a lot more spread out because teams utilize the advantages of points/per shot with the 3-ball more now (another advantage Toronto would have)
ii) Lowry shares the main option touches with DeRozan - his box score averages don't begin to show how good he's playing this season. He'd be putting up close to 25 ppg this season if he didn't have another 20 ppg scorer on his team. He's better at breaking down defenses, getting to the rim and finishing, controlling the pace (pushing or slowing down in favor of his offense), scoring/taking games over. If you actually watched them play this season - you wouldn't be spouting this dumb shyt.
iii) The Raptors have far more variance in their lineups (due to better personnel) to shut that Cavs team down if Cleveland wanted to play at their pace - their frontcourt scoring was basically non-existent so they wouldn't have to worry about Scola and Val becoming net negatives on that side. They would pretty much have the advantage on offense from 1-5 (except Mills/DeMarre). Lowry and DeRozan's two-man game would eat against that Cavs defense - Cleveland simply wouldn't have an answer.

You're unbelievable - you're the one making the claim, yet you want me to disprove it before you've even made a proper, substantiated basis. No team during the mid/late 90s forced the Magic into taking mid-range shots, while forcing them off the 3-pt line and directly loading up on Shaq - similar tactics the Cavs employed all throughout the second half of the season and postseason.

Despite having the odd mental lapse, JR's one of the best perimeter defenders on the squad. Despite the struggles the Hawks had without a star to carry them, they were still one of the best teams in the league last season. Grouping them in as being "trash" basically explains your inability to judge the abilities and talent of teams. You're in calling the '15 Hawks "trash", yet said the '96 Heat were a legitimately good team.





Now you're not making any sense. First of not only was that 96 Hornets squad absolutely horrible on defense (the '16 Hornets have one of the better defenses), they weren't much better than the current Hornets on offense either. With a healthy MKG, this team matches up well against the '96 predecessor.

As for your stance about the Pacers, Hawks, Knicks, Pistons and Bulls being better than they are now - not only are you wrong on the Hawks (especially last season's squad) - but I can too can play the game. The Celtics, Bucks, Raptors and Heat are better now than they were in 1996.



You did NOT watch the Heat back then when Zo played 70% of the season without a legit second option - it was pretty much him and scrubs on offense. Even with all the Heat's injuries and lack of chemistry this season, nobody in their right mind would say that 95/96 Heat squad were "much better". This is why I can't have a reasonable argument with you on this, because i) you didn't watch the league back then ii) those rose-coloured glasses of yours are blinding you of looking at this shyt with any sense with valuing these teams.

A healthy and focused

Dragic
Wade
Deng
Bosh
Whiteside

were definitively better than that 96 Heat team which were going through a transitional phase (they actually had one of the worst losing runs during the season too, which was partly the reason they made a big trade).



Spoken like somebody that doesn't know what they're talking about because they don't watch them play. There's no reasoning with you whatsoever.

You're clueless. You really are. First of all, you can't say that they were a good team in the making; who were going through a rebuilding phase were a much better team than this season's Heat. Despite Wade and Bosh not playing at the peak of their abilities, this experienced/vet team with more talent were flatout better. It's not even really arguable. Second of all, not only did Tim have a full offseason with the team (after the end of season trade), but they also signed Austin (who won the MIPOY award), Majerle, PJ (one of the best defensive bigs during that time) and Mashburn.

It wasn't tougher competition. Not only that but you're exposing yourself again - Hardaway only played the tail end of the regular season - Zo was doing it pretty much by himself. If this current Heat team is struggling to keep above .500, there's no chance that Zo/scrubs squad would do any better.

That's a pot calling the kettle black statement if I've ever seen one. All you're doing in here is regurgitating back-in-the-day false talking points.

I'm pointing out the fact that you don't know what you're talking about, and are clearly overrating some of those 90s teams.

Irrational and biased? That would be you. The lack of self-awareness is amazing. You're speaking about teams you haven't even seen as if you actually watched them.

You're dumbing the discussion down clouding the issue with bullshyt. That's why you have to edit over and over. You type all of this bullshyt and you're too gotdamn stupid to understand what I'm saying. I didn't say that the '95 Heat were better than this year's Heat. I said that the '95 Heat who were the 8th seed that season are better than whoever makes the 8th seed this season. You either can't understand plain English or you deliberately build your own straw man to argue against. Either way you argue like a bytch who can't read.

Bottom line, the league is not as deep now as it was back then and it's not even close. Your little stat boy geek arguments don't fly. Stats don't tell you how good these teams are because they're(stats) all relative to the how the game is called, played, and the level of competition. Last year's Hawks are a perfect example. Despite dominating the east last year nobody picked them to go to the finals and they went out and proved why by getting swept by Cleveland. Their stats said that they were a really good team but anybody who watched them play knew that they weren't as good as the stats said. This isn't a debate that you're going to win quoting stats, geek.

It's obvious that you'll never concede so I'm done taken you serious here.

@Malta

This dude is trying to argue that the 95/96 Heat squad (Zo's first season when he was playing with scrubs - until the trade for Hardway/Gatling near the end of the season) is "much better" than this current Heat squad. And in turn would have a better record this season, than they did back then. This schmaltz rhetoric for previous eras makes dudes throw all sense out the window.

Gotdamn you're stupid

this team is as good as the '95 team. That Heat team wasn't that good yet back in '95 but they're much better than the team who will be the 8th seed in the east this year. There's really no comparison here the east was much better back then.

Read that slowly dumb fukk so you can stop making shyt up.

 

[Malta]

@Malta

This dude is trying to argue that the 95/96 Heat squad (Zo's first season when he was playing with scrubs - until the trade for Hardway/Gatling near the end of the season) is "much better" than this current Heat squad. And in turn would have a better record this season, than they did back then. This schmaltz rhetoric for previous eras makes dudes throw all sense out the window.

They played 20 years ago, of course they're better!

It's always the same talking points(Fundamentals/Handchecking), the Heat were trash that year until the trade, and the league had an expansion draft so I don't want to hear how teams were better.

Did they talk about how the Heat hit threes yet totally disregarding that their best year from 3 was with the short three line?

 

[Lifer11]

They've already won a title though, so it's not like they haven't climbed the mountaintop already, what we're seeing now is unprecedented.

No it's not. The team they're trying to beat set the precedent. And did a hell of a lot more in the midst of doing that. If the Warriors 3 peat once then Steph retires for a season or two and then comes back and they 4 peat, then we can say it's unprecedented. Until then it's one of the greatest runs in NBA history, but not unprecedented.

 

[Malta]

No it's not. The team they're trying to beat set the precedent. And did a hell of a lot more in the midst of doing that. If the Warriors 3 peat once then Steph retires for a season or two and then comes back and they 4 peat, then we can say it's unprecedented. Until then it's one of the greatest runs in NBA history, but not unprecedented.

This is the best record through 52 games in NBA history, their record the last two seasons is the best in NBA history, it's unprecedented.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

You're dumbing the discussion down clouding the issue with bullshyt. That's why you have to edit over and over. You type all of this bullshyt and you're too gotdamn stupid to understand what I'm saying. I didn't say that the '95 Heat were better than this year's Heat. I said that the '95 Heat who were the 8th seed that season are better than whoever makes the 8th seed this season. You either can't understand plain English or you deliberately build your own straw man to argue against. Either way you argue like a bytch who can't read.

Actually you did by saying that the 'legit good teams' back then (Cavs, Pistons, Heat and Hawks) were all better than this season's Raptors - this Raptors team is better than the current Heat squad this season - which means all those 'legit good teams' you mentioned are better than this season's Heat squad as well. Not only that, but the Heat could realistically finish as the 8th seed this season too. So yes you are basically saying that '95 Heat squad are better than this season's Heat team.

Bottom line, the league is not as deep now as it was back then and it's not even close. Your little stat boy geek arguments don't fly. Stats don't tell you how good these teams are because they're(stats) all relative to the how the game is called, played, and the level of competition. Last year's Hawks are a perfect example. Despite dominating the east last year nobody picked them to go to the finals and they went out and proved why by getting swept by Cleveland. Their stats said that they were a really good team but anybody who watched them play knew that they weren't as good as the stats said. This isn't a debate that you're going to win quoting stats, geek.

You've now gone into full-blown ad hominem status - I've barely mentioned stats during this entire argument. The only real stats I've mentioned is Lowry's, and even then I said his box score averages aren't going to tell the full story of his level of play this season. You've been arguing with your emotions (as you usually do) all throughout this thread, instead of looking at what I've been trying to tell you because you've already made up your mind on the past being better except having little to no knowledge of those teams during that period - as evidence by trying to talk up what you claim as "legit good teams" as being better than this season's Raptors.

I can't take you seriously if your type of reasoning allows you act like that Heat team were legit, and pass of some teams today as if they were trash.

 

[Lifer11]

This is the best record through 52 games in NBA history, their record the last two seasons is the best in NBA history, it's unprecedented.

Bulls won 72 (95-96) then 69 (96-97), Warriors won 67 last year, still a ways to go before it's unprecedented. Lebron's Cavs won 66 (08-09) and 61 (09-10), if the Warriors have a bad 2nd half of the season they could still fall short of that 2 season win total, it's unlikely but still possible. And to even tie the Bulls 2 season win total they have to win 74, and win the chip again and then add 4 more.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Read that slowly dumb fukk so you can stop making shyt up.

Let me remind you again of what you said -

You said you'd take all of those 95/96 teams you mentioned over this current Raptors team (Pacers, Knicks, Heat, Pistons, Hawks and Cavs) - failing to realize that this is YOU saying (indirectly) that those aforementioned teams are better than this current Heat team as well (as the Raptors are the second best team in the East). Again, not only that but you said they're much better than the team who will be the 8th seed this season. There's a realistic chance that the Heat could be the 8th seed, as there's only a few wins that separate 5th and 8th.

On that note, you could make a valid argument that the Wizards this season are better than that 95/96 Heat team as well and they won't even make the playoffs.

 

[Malta]

Bulls won 72 (95-96) then 69 (96-97), Warriors won 67 last year, still a ways to go before it's unprecedented. Lebron's Cavs won 66 (08-09) and 61 (09-10), if the Warriors have a bad 2nd half of the season they could still fall short of that 2 season win total, it's unlikely but still possible. And to even tie the Bulls 2 season win total they have to win 74, and win the chip again and then add 4 more.

The Bulls won 45 games before their 72-10 season, and the Warriors are on pace for 75 wins.


They have the best record anyone has seen through 52 games, this is something you've seen before?

 

[Gravity]

Actually you did by saying that the 'legit good teams' back then (Cavs, Pistons, Heat and Hawks) were all better than this season's Raptors - this Raptors team is better than the current Heat squad this season - which means all those 'legit good teams' you mentioned are better than this season's Heat squad as well. Not only that, but the Heat could realistically finish as the 8th seed this season too. So yes you are basically saying that '95 Heat squad are better than this season's Heat team.



You've now gone into full-blown ad hominem status - I've barely mentioned stats during this entire argument. The only real stats I've mentioned is Lowry's, and even then I said his box score averages aren't going to tell the full story of his level of play this season. You've been arguing with your emotions (as you usually do) all throughout this thread, instead of looking at what I've been trying to tell you because you've already made up your mind on the past being better except having little to no knowledge of those teams during that period - as evidence by trying to talk up what you claim as "legit good teams" as being better than this season's Raptors.

I can't take you seriously if your type of reasoning allows you act like that Heat team were legit, and pass of some teams today as if they were trash.

You're a little bytch. Go fukk yourself with this feminine ass way of arguing/debating.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

You're a little bytch. Go fukk yourself with this feminine ass way of arguing/debating.

I'LL fukk YOU UP YOU STUPID CAC