Harris v. Greenwald: Is there an Anti-Islam Bias in New Atheism?

[ogc163]

Harris v. Greenwald: Is there an Anti-Islam Bias in New Atheism? | Tragic Farce

 

[The Real]

I think there's definitely an anti-Islam bias, and it's not too difficult to understand why. New Atheism tends to run with a very uncritical Enlightenment core, and modern Christianity, at least in the West, tends to be much more open to secularization- it's much more "toothless" than Islam to some extent. The combination of those two things make room for that kind of bias. Obviously, the reasons for this are historical and geopolitical, since there was also a time when Islam was much more secular and and progressive, while Christians were not.

 

[zerozero]

I think there's definitely an anti-Islam bias, and it's not too difficult to understand why. New Atheism tends to run with a very uncritical Enlightenment core, and modern Christianity, at least in the West, tends to be much more open to secularization- it's much more "toothless" than Islam to some extent. The combination of those two things make room for that kind of bias. Obviously, the reasons for this are historical and geopolitical, since there was also a time when Islam was much more secular and and progressive, while Christians were not.

I think there's more than a theoretical problem here. There's also a social distance issue. As someone who's not religious but from a Muslim community these guys really rub me the wrong way. There is too much overlap between hegemonic geopolitics and supposed plain atheism in 'new atheism' for me. I'll be damned if I accept some clueless blowhard from the UK rant on about how the rest of the world should be thinking. They don't know! they don't know our lives, our minds, our histories. Let me have old fashioned atheism over these clowns please

 

[ogc163]

Reading some of the stuff in the links provided at the end of the article ...

Hussain ends with a call for atheists to part ways with Harris:

By resurrecting the worst excesses of scientific racism and its violent corollaries, Harris is heir to one of the most disreputable intellectual lineages in modern history.. . . Just as it is incumbent upon Muslims to marginalise their own violent extremists, mainstream atheists must work to disavow those such as Harris who would tarnish their movement by associating it with a virulently racist, violent and exploitative worldview.

These quotes, and even the paraphrases, are taken out of context. Harris’s ruminations about torture were a general discussion of whether it could ever be justified, and weren’t limited to Muslims. He didn’t profess “public support” for torture or pre-emptive nuclear weapons strikes, but merely raised the possibility for our consideration. You may not agree with him, but he certainly wasn’t a “public advocate” for torture and nuclear strikes. As for security profiling, there is a case to be made for that, based not on racism but experience, that Muslim fliers might be given extra attention—indeed, that is what El Al seems to do. Indeed, Harris has said, I believe, that someone carrying the Qur’an on a plane might be inspected a bit more carefully, regardless of their “race.”



Playing the “Islamophobia” card « Why Evolution Is True

 

[Chris.B]

foreign or naturalized Atheist never bombed or killed anyone.

 

[theworldismine13]

I would have to side with Harris, islam has never gone through a reformation, so islam is worse than christianity, at least in 2013 it is, that could change in the future

 

[Type Username Here]

True only because of what The Real said. Islam is going through what Christianity went through hundreds of years ago, so more of the criticism is geared to it. "New Atheists" were and are very vocal in criticisms when it comes to the Catholic Church and priest abuses though, Greenwald and others seem to forget that.

But I also think zerozero is right as well. I certainly have been guilty of mixing my philosophical differences with Islam as a religion/culture/philosophy with some of the non-religious cultural/traditional aspects of certain events.

 

[The Real]

I think there's more than a theoretical problem here. There's also a social distance issue. As someone who's not religious but from a Muslim community these guys really rub me the wrong way. There is too much overlap between hegemonic geopolitics and supposed plain atheism in 'new atheism' for me. I'll be damned if I accept some clueless blowhard from the UK rant on about how the rest of the world should be thinking. They don't know! they don't know our lives, our minds, our histories. Let me have old fashioned atheism over these clowns please

I tried to capture that sentiment in my post, but you're right, it was too vague and didn't really express that clearly. The geopolitical history is a major issue here, just as it would have been for Muslims, back when Islam was a dominant geopolitical force with respect to Christianity. The uncritical Enlightenment core is just that- a Eurocentric view that European descriptions of democracy, rights, etc, are ultimately superior to those from other places. While I'm not a total relativist by any means, and do think secularism is superior to religious politics/government at the end of the day, and I do think there are some real sociological differences between Christianity and Islam at present, the New Atheist squad is too uncritical on that front.

 

[Blackking]

@The Real

But Most Muslims aren't as concerned with atheism as other religions are.

And you may have addressed this but appearance, geography, customs, and false preconceptions play a huge role in this bias against Muslims as well.

Clearly, this is a mistake because the majority of debates and attacks between New atheism and religion past/present have been with Christians.

Also, what is the New Atheism movement about? I ask this because the most outspoken people in the public and on the internet seem to be narrow-minded dogmatic regurgitating antagonist. What would be the reason for N A to have any sort of bias or even a mission?

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

I don't have time the read the article about this now, but I will later on tonight. This is is an interesting topic. We talked about this topic on the podcast once. Zero and Broke wave made some good points and made me think about some some of this stuff differently.

Starts at about 1:04 and goes to about 1:38:30.

PodOmatic | Best Free Podcasts

 

[Fervid]

Dear Fellow Liberal : An Exchange with Glenn Greenwald : Sam Harris
From Sam's blog (it would be messy if I pasted it here).

 

[acri1]

Excuse my ignorance but what's "New Atheism"? How exactly should that be defined?


That said, this topic is kind of funny. According to many Christians (especially conservative ones), atheists (especially liberals) only criticize Christianity and never say anything about other religions. But according to Muslims, atheists are pro-war/anti-Islam (whether they actually favor any wars or not) but never ever criticize Christianity.

I'm sensing more than a little bit of a persecution complex on both sides.

 

[Slaimon Khan Shah]

I THINK MOST OF THE MEDIA (MATRIX) IS ANTI-ISLAMIC SADLY.