House on Friday approved landmark legislation granting statehood to Washington, D.C. in a 232-180

King Static X

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DC, Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, and Northern Mariana Islands. The people in these countries are US citizens, but have no real representation in Congress. they can vote in the presidential primaries, but not the general election with the exception of DC. We are missing out on 12 Democratic senate seats. Giving territories statehood or independence should of been one of the things Dems did when they had a super majority. Democrats are way too weak and cautious.
Dems only had a filibuster-proof control of Congress for 2 months. Additionally, you have to remember we were still in the midst of The Great Recession and that was the main priority in 2009 & 2010. Don't forget how shytty Joe Lieberman was too.


Finally, from what I've gathered American Samoa doesn't want to be a state and most Samoans prefer to continue the current status they have. Guam, The Northern Mariana Islands and the USVI are complicated and we don't know what most of the residents of those islands want. Also, they might be too small population-wise to become states.
 

FAH1223

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I can't see Biden using political capital on this. He'll have a full plate once he's in office. I think this was just a symbolic vote knowing it wouldn't pass the Senate.
Biden won’t be able to pass any of his agenda items if the Dems don’t break the filibuster.

Is Biden gonna just pass two bills in 2021 and 2022 with budget reconciliation where you only need 51 votes?

his healthcare plan? No way it gets 60 votes

his climate plan? No way it gets 60 votes

more stimulus? No way it gets 60 votes

They have to eliminate the filibuster.

Im telling y’all this right now. If the Dems win the Senate and don’t eliminate the filibuster, they will not pass a damn thing because McConnell will not let 6, 7, 8, 9 of his Senators go to the other side on anything.

And Biden will not be able to govern as he wants. And the public will become frustrated with the Dems and we’ll be back to the situation we had before the 2014 midterms. An apathetic electorate that has no hope for anything happening.

Get rid of the fukking filibuster. It is an innovation from racists who wanted to get not let anti lynching laws take effect.
 

A.R.$

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Another problem: what if you end the filibuster, make DC a state...and the Supreme Court declares it unconstitutional? There is constitutional law debate over DC qualifies to be a state or not. I would imagine the court, with the current conservative majority, might shytcan such a bill. Meaning the power play would blow up in your face.

Same applies to other things a democrat majority might pass, like universal healthcare. The way the court system is set up, it wouldn't be hard for right wing justices on lower courts to declare something unconstitutional and slowly get the case sent to the Supreme Court, where a 5-4 majority would side with them. So there are a lot of potential pit falls in place for this, to the point where I wouldn't criticize Biden for not going in this direction.
The courts is one of the main reasons I am voting for Biden despite my immense dislike for him. We always focus on the Supreme Court, but Trump and Mitch have appointed 200 right wing extremists judges to the two lower courts:snoop:
The damage these judges will do is going to last a at least two decades.
 
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FAH1223

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Another problem: what if you end the filibuster, make DC a state...and the Supreme Court declares it unconstitutional? There is constitutional law debate over DC qualifies to be a state or not. I would imagine the court, with the current conservative majority, might shytcan such a bill. Meaning the power play would blow up in your face.

Same applies to other things a democrat majority might pass, like universal healthcare. The way the court system is set up, it wouldn't be hard for right wing justices on lower courts to declare something unconstitutional and slowly get the case sent to the Supreme Court, where a 5-4 majority would side with them. So there are a lot of potential pit falls in place for this, to the point where I wouldn't criticize Biden for not going in this direction.
Doesn’t matter

wield your power if you win the Senate like McConnell did and Reid did

If you want Biden to be successful, get rid of this racist innovative tool in the upper house of Congress

Pass what you can pass by eliminating the filibuster. There’s nothing in the constitution about a freaking filibuster.

Biden will already be able to appoint judges with only 51 votes.
 

A.R.$

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Dems only had a filibuster-proof control of Congress for 2 months. Additionally, you have to remember we were still in the midst of The Great Recession and that was the main priority in 2009 & 2010. Don't forget how shytty Joe Lieberman was too.


Finally, from what I've gathered American Samoa doesn't want to be a state and most Samoans prefer to continue the current status they have. Guam, The Northern Mariana Islands and the USVI are complicated and we don't know what most of the residents of those islands want. Also, they might be too small population-wise to become states.
That why I put in my post or give them independence. The decision should be left to the people. DC statehood is not a new proposal. People was talking about this for decades. I understand we were in the Great Recession, but the ground work for this is simple. My problem with Democrats is the majority of the party is too reactionary and not forward thinking. We know for sure DC wants statehood. We know for sure Puerto Rico voted for statehood. Let the other territories vote on their status. This should be a major priority.

As for population the US Virgin Islands have the population necessary to become a state. Northern Mariana is right on the edge of having the population necessary.
 
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Piff Perkins

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Doesn’t matter

wield your power if you win the Senate like McConnell did and Reid did

If you want Biden to be successful, get rid of this racist innovative tool in the upper house of Congress

Pass what you can pass by eliminating the filibuster. There’s nothing in the constitution about a freaking filibuster.

Biden will already be able to appoint judges with only 51 votes.

Constitutional wise I'm talking about DC statehood, not the filibuster.

Generally I think you make a good point, and some days I agree with you. Get rid of the filibuster and show people what an active government looks like. Pass bills that immediately impact their life and make things better. If not universal healthcare, a public option.Universal pre-k. And before any of that...a massive coronavirus stimulus bill that mirrors FDR, from monthly payments to Americans to unemployment extensions to infrastructure spending for states (including community health centers). All of which could be done without fear of the courts.

But you still open yourself up to republicans simply destroying the bills when they come into office. They came within one vote of repealing Obamacare, remember. Not long ago I would have said republicans would never repeal it because they don't have a replacement and it would be political suicide. But the Trump era has proven for good that the GOP is largely a suicidal party willing to destroy anything for short term gain. They WILL gain power again. And they WILL try to cut spending...but gutting whatever you pass. Flip side is that you can hope these programs are popular enough so that people vote out anyone who repeals them. But think about how many years it took Obamacare to be set up. If they could have repealed it before it went into effect, they would have been fine. Now it's super popular because people see the benefit.

Basically this is an ideological debate, and a risk. As I said, if Biden wants to get anything done he will have to do something drastic IMO. Because republicans will not allow him to fix Obamacare or pass the stimulus the economy needs. So do you sit around for 4 years doing nothing, or take a risk. If you take the risk you better hope 2024 goes your way though.
 

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Constitutional wise I'm talking about DC statehood, not the filibuster.

Generally I think you make a good point, and some days I agree with you. Get rid of the filibuster and show people what an active government looks like. Pass bills that immediately impact their life and make things better. If not universal healthcare, a public option.Universal pre-k. And before any of that...a massive coronavirus stimulus bill that mirrors FDR, from monthly payments to Americans to unemployment extensions to infrastructure spending for states (including community health centers). All of which could be done without fear of the courts.

But you still open yourself up to republicans simply destroying the bills when they come into office. They came within one vote of repealing Obamacare, remember. Not long ago I would have said republicans would never repeal it because they don't have a replacement and it would be political suicide. But the Trump era has proven for good that the GOP is largely a suicidal party willing to destroy anything for short term gain. They WILL gain power again. And they WILL try to cut spending...but gutting whatever you pass. Flip side is that you can hope these programs are popular enough so that people vote out anyone who repeals them. But think about how many years it took Obamacare to be set up. If they could have repealed it before it went into effect, they would have been fine. Now it's super popular because people see the benefit.

Basically this is an ideological debate, and a risk. As I said, if Biden wants to get anything done he will have to do something drastic IMO. Because republicans will not allow him to fix Obamacare or pass the stimulus the economy needs. So do you sit around for 4 years doing nothing, or take a risk. If you take the risk you better hope 2024 goes your way though.
If Dems don’t do something drastic, 2024 will be a disaster breh
 

Outlaw

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Constitutional wise I'm talking about DC statehood, not the filibuster.

Generally I think you make a good point, and some days I agree with you. Get rid of the filibuster and show people what an active government looks like. Pass bills that immediately impact their life and make things better. If not universal healthcare, a public option.Universal pre-k. And before any of that...a massive coronavirus stimulus bill that mirrors FDR, from monthly payments to Americans to unemployment extensions to infrastructure spending for states (including community health centers). All of which could be done without fear of the courts.

But you still open yourself up to republicans simply destroying the bills when they come into office. They came within one vote of repealing Obamacare, remember. Not long ago I would have said republicans would never repeal it because they don't have a replacement and it would be political suicide. But the Trump era has proven for good that the GOP is largely a suicidal party willing to destroy anything for short term gain. They WILL gain power again. And they WILL try to cut spending...but gutting whatever you pass. Flip side is that you can hope these programs are popular enough so that people vote out anyone who repeals them. But think about how many years it took Obamacare to be set up. If they could have repealed it before it went into effect, they would have been fine. Now it's super popular because people see the benefit.

Basically this is an ideological debate, and a risk. As I said, if Biden wants to get anything done he will have to do something drastic IMO. Because republicans will not allow him to fix Obamacare or pass the stimulus the economy needs. So do you sit around for 4 years doing nothing, or take a risk. If you take the risk you better hope 2024 goes your way though.
The solution is actually pass popular laws that make life better for the average American. Republicans won’t be able to repeal those laws without political suicide if America loves them
 

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Another problem: what if you end the filibuster, make DC a state...and the Supreme Court declares it unconstitutional? There is constitutional law debate over DC qualifies to be a state or not. I would imagine the court, with the current conservative majority, might shytcan such a bill. Meaning the power play would blow up in your face.

Same applies to other things a democrat majority might pass, like universal healthcare. The way the court system is set up, it wouldn't be hard for right wing justices on lower courts to declare something unconstitutional and slowly get the case sent to the Supreme Court, where a 5-4 majority would side with them. So there are a lot of potential pit falls in place for this, to the point where I wouldn't criticize Biden for not going in this direction.

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the judiciary can only rule on actions of the federal government that are currently taking place (and specifically, some party is claiming they're being harmed by those actions), or ruling on actual laws that are in force, and not bills that might become law some day. I can't see how they'd rule that DC statehood is unconstitutional before it actually happened.

Not to pick on your post, because I do think a conservative backlash is worth keeping in mind, but this does bring to mind something I've wondered about for a while now. How much do conservatives worry about how future changes in the political winds/electoral fortunes should guide their present political strategy? I'm admittedly ignorant on how much introspection and internal debate Republicans engage in when it comes to what a Democratic backlash to their policies might look like. But however much they engage in it, it doesn't seem to constrain what policies they pursue/enact. It seems like whenever they have power, they wield it to their own ends without regard for what the other side might think or react (probably because they don't think Democrats can legitimately wield power, but that's another topic).

On the other hand, Democrats seem to do so much handwringing about how Republicans will react to their policies, they come off as afraid to actually wield power. And it seems counter-productive. If Democrats are going to constantly hamstring themselves and the policies they push for worrying about the inevitable Republican backlash, then they give their supporters little reason to vote for them in the first place. That kind of worrying energy could be better put towards strategizing how to blunt the backlash (e.g. electoral reforms to reduce or eliminate a lot of the built-in advantages Republicans have given themselves in elections across the county) rather than trying to enact policies in a way that won't invoke a conservative backlash that's going to come no matter what.

Democrats need to actually wield power for their ends for a change.
 

88m3

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The solution is actually pass popular laws that make life better for the average American. Republicans won’t be able to repeal those laws without political suicide if America loves them

That's not how Republicans operate
 

88m3

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Why?

gaining two seats would put a check on them undoing future Dem actions going forwards


It's bad enough now but every change in senate resulting in the roll back of laws will be a disaster


Some of the better stuff Obama put in place was rolled back before it ever really came to force

:dead:
 
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