people put him as the concensus #2 greatest player of all time with only 4 rings. He is top 10 but he still has work to do. Duncan won 5 rings with Tony Parker being his best sidekick. Kobe has a 3 peat and won back to back with Paul gasol being his second best player. Bron has built super teams to his liking and has only went back go back once. I don't care how many times he made it to the finals, you don't get props for finishing second place.
1. MJ
2 Kareem
3.Russell*
4 Magic
5.Duncan
6.Kobe
7.Bron
8 Shaq
9.Bird
10.Wilt
Russell would be the goat but he played in a league with far less teams. If he won 11 in a modern NBA he would be the goat.
Guess it sucks for you, because I got time today...
Let's start with this, the premise of your thread is flawed from jump, how is Mike the consensus #1 with only 6 rings, how are Kareem and Mike both generally placed over Russell when he damn near has all of their championships by himself? Your logic is some "and/but" shyt, you can give exclusions on when someone has fewer chips is greater, but no one else can?
Your thread really isn't about rings because obviously you aren't consistent, and despite The Culture forcing ring conversations down our throats, it really was never strictly about rings, either. There's a healthy balance of factors...
So let's go with this, the context and weight of how you win these rings matters too. The only players in NBA history who won more rings than LeBron as a #1 are Russell (8), Mike (6), Mikan (5). Thats it and that's all. Both Duncan and LeBron have 4 chips as the best player on a championship team. Winning four titles as the #1 is greater than winning an extra one or more as not the best player---->these players get their flowers for being part of championship teams when we mention their overall ring count. When we compare their GOATness, you should weigh how them won them all more succinctly, and if you got one (Oscar, Duncan, Shaq), two (Magic), or three (Kareem, Kobe) added rings while being a #2 or lesser player, that is not more valuable than winning 4 as the best player...
Said another way, though, Bron didn't just "leap over" Kareem, Magic, Duncan, and Kobe:
•he's the greatest floor raiser of all time who changed the fortunes of multiple teams every time he arrived...
•the only one of these guys who walked in the door balling at Bron's level was Kareem, and Bron was straight outta high school. Duncan and Magic were great as rookies but weren't LeBron, he didn't have a League MVP (Magic) or David Robinson playing next to him to steady the ship and relieve his burden...
Kobe was on the pine so this particular point he aint in the class of any of the GOATs, and its the beginning of the story of why he trails in GOAT rankings. Too many impact metrics he falls short in, beginning with how he walked into The League compared to his historical peers...
•LeBron wasn't out here missing the playoffs smack dab in the middle of his fukking prime. There's Kobe again, and there's Kareem, with more to come...
•everybody except Russell and Mike have choke jobs on their resume. Every single player. Kareem particularly embodies the essence of GOAT-level player with repeated meltdowns, and yes, having more than LeBron should matter, the same way LeBron having more chokes than Mike matters to you nikkas...
Kareem went into straight Tapout mode vs Dave Cowens in G7 of the '74 Finals, blowing a 3-2 series lead with home court, as the heavy, overwhelming favorite, missing bunnies and blowing multiple free throws in the 4thQ. But this is a theme of Kareem, your reported #2 GOAT, this is a theme of his career, placing his hands on his throat in go time and getting bullied by more physical bigs with his finesse ass. I can keep going certainly, and I may come back to this point anyway...
•all of these guys you named, the fact they were led by All-Time coaches and upper management can be weaponized in a GOAT comparison. Kareem won 4 of his 6 rings with a HOF coach and Bill Sharman as his GM, Magic won 4 of his 5 with the same, Duncan won all 5 of his with All-Time coaching, and Kobe won all 5 of his with the same...
Of this group only The Cap proved he could win without the perfect management, which is hella impressive, but is also sullied by his having played
10 fukking years in the NBA without Magic, purportedly dominating the 70s to the tune of 5 MVPs, yet winning only one title and getting to The Finals just once more. Mans was done winning championships until The Magic Man arrived, which, while Kareem being the better player of the two, this is always a damning fact when his career is looked at with introspection...
LeBron took no name coaches to titles and gave them credibility, the only place having a proven front office when he arrived being Miami. He shyts on everyone here, no player at this level was asked to do more for organizational ineptitude, and while we're at it, add this----->they all had great teammates, you can't name the GOAT-level player who didn't, that comes part and parcel. LeBron and Duncan are the only two you of the group who didn't have his career elevated by another Top 10 GOAT, LeBron didn't have a Top 20 All-Time teammate nor has he been helped by any teammate with an MVP or DPOY to their name...
That shyt matters...
...........
I'll pause for now. Frankly, above all of this, it's the postseason where LeBron puts the largest gap on these dudes, and thats with 6 championship losses. He has more icon moments in the playoffs than all these guys combined, and if your name isn't Mike, there really is no comparison LeBron's level of play in The Tournament.
No one else. All four of the dudes you named have playoff moments for sure, for the slow nikkas reading this, but none of their composites have it on the scale of Bron, and thats pretty factually inarguable, you'll have to start reaching to connect dots that don't compare to act like these guys were on the level LeBron reaches in the postseason...
He didn't just pass these nikkas by, he built it over years of proving his credibility every single year, yet here we are in Y18 with nikkas still grasping at straws. You really don't want a basketball analysis though, you want a hate/troll thread circle jerk; he greater than all these dudes and the only one of the four arguably greater than Mike. The only one...
