How did Kendrick Lamar become considered 'lyrical'?

[CrimsonTider]

they are incoherent so I can't even listen to what they trying to say. Mumbling over hard beats don't make great music. Kendrick makes better music and is the better rapper.

I understand them just fine

 

[Theodoresolderbreh]

I understand them just fine

and that's cool but I don't

 

[mr. smoke weed]

Read the thread I said in the first post I like Kendricks music. You clowns in the booth are something else.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

You break down the songs really well.

But I dont know if its Kendricks task to give us the answer to whats the consequence of prostitution. He points out the flaws in the attitude inside and outside of the ghetto. Where Boots points out the flaws and attitudes inside of the family.

Even if the Jesus and Keisha songs is about prostitution, they portray two different live storys of how prostitution effect lives. One is about how it effect the kid of a prostitute and his family situation and other one handles on why a teenage girl would go into prostitution. It tries to give the listener an insight into what the rest of society call "trash".

The same thing you claim Kendrick is neglecting can be said about the Boots verses. I don't see a problem with Boots not focusing on why the mother happen to be a prostitute or how she feels and how her working day looks like.

They don't have to show every single aspect of the community.

Keisha's song could never tell the story it did if Kendrick were to include all the aspects you think he should have adressed. I dont see the reason to go into what the cost/gain or if she wanted someone to intervene. Its pretty clear Keisha don't enjoy her occupation, she rush through clients (a new one every verse, portraying her work very well I would say). Kendrick mentions she dont got a father but a pimp but he dont have to go into their relationship, it would steer away from the main point of the story. I dont see the point of going into how her being a prostitute effects her surrounding since it also would take us away from us getting to feel the numbness and coldness of Keishas working day.

I think we both agree that they have different messages so its unfair to point out that the other song didnt tell the other part of the story.

Really my main comment about Keisha's song is just that it offers an impersonal viewpoint that's not really treated like one. The last two lines of the song, for instance:

"Hmm...
My little sister 11, I looked her right in the face
The day that I wrote this song, sat her down and pressed play"

It's interesting that he finally addresses his personal connection to the story at the very end of it. Moreover, other than the obvious nature of the song being a cautionary tale, you can't really tell if his sister in this situation is supposed to be judging Keisha, sympathize with Keisha or simply be afraid of becoming a prostitute. The intention of the entire song is somewhat murky because of a lack of definition of the characters. We're looking at Keisha through Kendrick Lamar's window without ever stepping outside. If his sister's perspective (young girl about to be pubescent) of Keisha was somehow fleshed out more, this might have been more personal/insightful.

I hear what you're saying about the numbness being reflected in the writing, that in and of itself is somewhat of a cliche though. It's an acceptable oversimplification, I do think the story even when serving as a cautionary tale is somewhat one-dimensional though.

You have a good point that Me and Jesus never really asks how his mother ended up a prostitute. The main character of that story is her son though, and clearly she was already doing it when he was born (that's how he was conceived). Also, the story clearly shows that her motivation is her son.

The intention of Me and Jesus is double-layered IMO. In addition to telling a dope story and breaking down the family situation, it is making a clear statement about the fact that the victims of prostitution are real people, not just products of the environment. Keisha's Song and Me and Jesus are very different stories but the overall takeaway is largely the same imo. Kendrick's song isn't as effective to me personally because it dwells on the surface of the issue, not really asking the listener to draw their own conclusions.

 

[Jack Don the G]

Really my main comment about Keisha's song is just that it offers an impersonal viewpoint that's not really treated like one. The last two lines of the song, for instance:

"Hmm...
My little sister 11, I looked her right in the face
The day that I wrote this song, sat her down and pressed play"

It's interesting that he finally addresses his personal connection to the story at the very end of it. Moreover, other than the obvious nature of the song being a cautionary tale, you can't really tell if his sister in this situation is supposed to be judging Keisha, sympathize with Keisha or simply be afraid of becoming a prostitute. The intention of the entire song is somewhat murky because of a lack of definition of the characters. We're looking at Keisha through Kendrick Lamar's window without ever stepping outside. If his sister's perspective (young girl about to be pubescent) of Keisha was somehow fleshed out more, this might have been more personal/insightful.

I hear what you're saying about the numbness being reflected in the writing, that in and of itself is somewhat of a cliche though. It's an acceptable oversimplification, I do think the story even when serving as a cautionary tale is somewhat one-dimensional though.

You have a good point that Me and Jesus never really asks how his mother ended up a prostitute. The main character of that story is her son though, and clearly she was already doing it when he was born (that's how he was conceived). Also, the story clearly shows that her motivation is her son.

The intention of Me and Jesus is double-layered IMO. In addition to telling a dope story and breaking down the family situation, it is making a clear statement about the fact that the victims of prostitution are real people, not just products of the environment. Keisha's Song and Me and Jesus are very different stories but the overall takeaway is largely the same imo. Kendrick's song isn't as effective to me personally because it dwells on the surface of the issue, not really asking the listener to draw their own conclusions.

I dont agree that the numb mood of the song is cliche or a oversimplification.

I do how ever see your point about the "My little sister 11"-part. It makes you question his reason for putting it in. This spoils a otherwise good song and do bring a some what cliche feeling to it.

Kendricks song might not be as effective as you say but as I mentioned, I do not believe it is because Me and Jesus is more multi layered, bring more insight or make the listener make his own conclusions.

But I dont think we will get any further by fleshing it out more.

I will probably prefer Me and Jesus over Keishas song after a few more listens (if Im not already). Since I think the message of Kendricks song hits the hardest the first time listening to it, but after multiple listens its "just" a sad song with a dark theme (just with linja 4ever a dark dark movie about a child prostitute from Russia, its so dark and sad but a great movie. But I never wanna watch it again).
Me and Jesus on the other hand even tho it also have a dark theme is more "enjoyable" and gain value over multiple listens.

Spoiler

I still think Kendrick is a great story teller that makes the listener see multiple views on a subject without being cliche about it.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

I dont agree that the numb mood of the song is cliche or a oversimplification.

I do how ever see your point about the "My little sister 11"-part. It makes you question his reason for putting it in. This spoils a otherwise good song and do bring a some what cliche feeling to it.

Kendricks song might not be as effective as you say but as I mentioned, I do not believe it is because Me and Jesus is more multi layered, bring more insight or make the listener make his own conclusions.

But I dont think we will get any further by fleshing it out more.

I will probably prefer Me and Jesus over Keishas song after a few more listens (if Im not already). Since I think the message of Kendricks song hits the hardest the first time listening to it, but after multiple listens its "just" a sad song with a dark theme (just with linja 4ever a dark dark movie about a child prostitute from Russia, its so dark and sad but a great movie. But I never wanna watch it again).
Me and Jesus on the other hand even tho it also have a dark theme is more "enjoyable" and gain value over multiple listens.

Spoiler

I still think Kendrick is a great story teller that makes the listener see multiple views on a subject without being cliche about it.

Kendrick's definitely a good storyteller, tracks like "Average Joe" and "ADHD" are his bread and butter imo. He's gotten away from that on his recent material which is a shame because he's good at it.