How do you feel about the Forbes top 100 Billionaires list in regards to poverty?

[Futuristic Eskimo]

That 30% is for the top 1% and is effective. It's in the tax foundation link.

Effective rate I see for households over $10M is ~23%. http://www.forbes.com/sites/janetno...re-of-nations-income-and-paid-lower-tax-rate/ And NYS/NYC taxes all income the same. So even billionaires living entirely on capital gains are paying over 40%. What's the average total effective tax rate, federal, state and local, for the average American?

And what they can afford is irrelevant. They could afford a 90% tax. The point is, what would realistically come from that tax hike given the ineffectiveness of govt as it exists today? And what's the point of a tax hike when we don't even have our priorities in order? College students spent $60B on tuition in 2012...... we spend over 10x that on the military. We could earmark ~$120B and make college free for everybody tomorrow, without raising taxes on anybody. We spend a quarter of our GDP on healthcare because it's so complicated, wasteful and prioritized around the wrong things. We could cut that down a lot and make that public too, for a small cost that everyone should share in (as everyone would use it).

You guys are not actually looking at or thinking about how to solve the problems we are facing... you are just using them as a means to rationalize demonizing what you feel is obscene wealth. But in reality the existence of that wealth is a non issue.

Your assumptions are awful. In your world, there are 0 deductions or other tax breaks for rich people and they pay the full amount within each tax bracket. This is laughably untrue. I dont think this conversations needs to continue after that 60% claim. Even if you double the IRS estimate, which is extremely generous, to account for everything else, you are barely touching 40%.

I clearly said earlier that spending needs to be made efficient. You aren't saying anything groundbreaking here. Stop pretending like you own that piece of common sense and it supports only your argument.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

Your assumptions are awful. In your world, there are 0 deductions or other tax breaks for rich people and they pay the full amount within each tax bracket. This is laughably untrue. I dont think this conversations needs to continue after that 60% claim. Even if you double the IRS estimate, which is extremely generous, to account for everything else, you are barely touching 40%.

I clearly said earlier that spending needs to be made efficient. You aren't saying anything groundbreaking here. Stop pretending like you own that piece of common sense and it supports only your argument.

The IRS is federal. And effective tax rates are what's paid on average after deductions and all that shyt. You still have to pay state and local taxes.

And I don't own anything I'm saying. But my point is people saying the rich need to pay more are jumping way past some pretty common sense solutions to address the problems they claim tax hikes are the only or primary means of addressing.

 

[Futuristic Eskimo]

The IRS is federal. And effective tax rates are what's paid on average after deductions and all that shyt. You still have to pay state and local taxes.

And I don't own anything I'm saying. But my point is people saying the rich need to pay more are jumping way past some pretty common sense solutions to address the problems they claim tax hikes are the only or primary means of addressing.

Im aware the IRS is Federal. Thank you for reminding me. I clearly stated if you double everything else generously, that it would still barely be 40%. Do you think I was doubling it for fun or to account for state and local and whatever else?

I'm not making that argument. All I'm saying is that all options should be on the table, including raising rates on the rich. If it isn't necessary, then we don't have to do it going forward. To act like it shouldn't even be an option in the first place is a ridiculous position, though.

 

[CHL]

Hey ghaleon, why don't you back up your insanely ridiculous comment of "most liberals say that" with actual evidence instead of running off to remove rep like a child having a tantrum? ****ing troll.

 

[Truth200]

8 billionaires on the coli by the poll results....

 

[Truth200]

 

[Truth200]

http://fortune.com/2014/10/28/global-recession-us-europe-china/

Economist David Levy argues instability in emerging markets will sink the U.S. economy before the end of next year.

Four years after the end of the Great Recession, it looks as if the U.S. economy might finally be poised for breakout growth.

Monthly job growth in 2014 is, on average, faster than at any point since the financial crisis. Overall economic growth appears to picking up too, with real GDP growing by more than 4% in the second quarter of this year, and many economists predicting higher overall growth compared to
last year.

like hedge fund titan Ray Dalio and economist and Financial Timescolumnist Martin Wolf, who began his latest book with a quote from Minsky arguing that economists ought to formulate theories in which depressions are a naturally occurring state for capitalist economies. These thinkers have been drawn to the Minksian notion that, over the long run, capitalist economies will inevitably suffer from the kind of trouble we’ve been in recently because capitalist systems encourage the growth of debt.

We hear a lot of people warning about the dangers of debt, specifically the government variety. But for Minksy and his followers, it’s private sector debt that is the problem. Here’s how economist Paul Krugman has described the Minskian concept of debt:

He argued that conventional views of financial crisis were too narrowly focused on the specific issue of bank runs. In Minsky’s vision, excessive leverage—too much reliance on borrowed money—creates a risk of crisis whoever the borrower. Banks, which in effect borrow money short-term from their depositors but invest in assets that can’t easily be converted to cash, may be especially vulnerable. But business and household debt also expose the economy to the possibility of a self-reinforcing downward spiral.

The following chart, provided by Levy, shows the accumulation of private debt in the U.S. and in China:



As you can see, debt in the U.S grew and grew until the trend was finally snapped in 2008. This process of “deleveraging” is beginning to end in America, but in places like China, the debt buildup hardly paused, and now the ratio of debt to GDP held by non-financial businesses in China is higher than it ever was in the U.S. So, what is this debt financing? Investment in businesses and real estate, to fund the great Chinese export machine. The problem is that exports haven’t grown in China to justify that demand, as the following chart shows:



You can see the same general trend for other emerging markets. They’ve continued to invest, hoping that the export growth catches up to pre-crisis levels. Eventually, the consequences of this overinvestment will be clear, just like the U.S. economy had to deal with its own over-investment in real estate.

So what happens when emerging markets are finally forced to face the music? It’s tough to say what a financial crisis in China would look like, Levy argues. The government in Beijing has the ability to take a much more activist role in protecting the financial system than even the U.S. did. But either way, the world’s second largest economy, and others like it, are headed toward much slower economic growth.

Twenty years ago, a recession across the emerging world might not have been a huge deal for the U.S., but the American economy is more reliant on global trade today than it has been in a long while. Thirty percent of the jobs added since the financial crisis has been the result of rising exports, according to the Treasury Department, and there are now more firms exporting goods and services in America than ever before.

The U.S. economy is even more closely connected to the European economy, which Levy also shows has done a poor job of deleveraging:



The European banking system never really recovered from the financial crisis. A stress test released on Sunday showed that 25 out of 130 institutions are unsound while critics argue that the failure rate should be far higher. Levy has little confidence that Europe will be able to withstand an economic shock stemming from the emerging economic world. And once Europe is dragged under, he says, there isn’t enough economic strength at home to keep the U.S. economy from avoiding another recession.

 

[Truth200]

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/ther...-of-money-people-can-have-at-one-time.268094/

 

[jadillac]

It's up to the working class to change the system from what it is. Can't knock these guys under this system.

Great idea, and who's gonna quit their job and take the vow of poverty to get the ball rolling in order to show tehse fat cats who's in control?





And as soon as they do, another 100,000 desparate ppl will jump in line to take their jobs

 

[JahFocus CS]

Great idea, and who's gonna quit their job and take the vow of poverty to get the ball rolling in order to show tehse fat cats who's in control?





And as soon as they do, another 100,000 desparate ppl will jump in line to take their jobs

Working-class organization and struggle doesn't mean quitting your job and trying to become an ascetic or something.

Try to be a smart ass but fail to say anything substantive, brehs.

 

[Truth200]

At 13:40 into this video listen and learn......

He says just two people have more wealth than every black person in America combined....

 

[Mowgli]

Wrong thread

 

[DEAD7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum_game

http://www.povertycure.org/issues/the-zero-sum-fallacy/

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/wealth-poverty/commentary/orourke-if-1-had-less-would-99-be-better

http://www.aei.org/publication/p-j-orourke-on-the-fallacy-and-evil-of-zero-sum-thinking/

 

[Dion Isus]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum_game

http://www.povertycure.org/issues/the-zero-sum-fallacy/

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/wealth-poverty/commentary/orourke-if-1-had-less-would-99-be-better

http://www.aei.org/publication/p-j-orourke-on-the-fallacy-and-evil-of-zero-sum-thinking/

Thank you

 

[MewTwo]

At 13:40 into this video listen and learn......

He says just two people have more wealth than every black person in America combined....

damn good video