How Is It So Hard For Democrats To Debate The Issue of Abortion With Republicans???

Professor Emeritus

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Abortion is just a procedure. No different than the choice people make to alter their bodies with hormones or implants that they will have to deal with the repercussions emotionally and physically.

We aren’t having an abortion debate. It’s about procreation. Even if Dems gave in and said just teach and give free contraceptives so we don’t get to that point, the pro-life side isn’t having it.

knowledge is dangerous?

This is just another front in the government eugenics debate that had women getting sterilized because.... minorities, immigrants,and poor.
Claiming that killing another being is no different than getting implants is the EXACT kind of terrible debate move the OP was talking about.

And I'm really confused where you bring eugenics into it, wouldn't that be what the other side would accuse you of trying to do?



I agree with your characterization of the arguments. Though I believe you still think it's ok to off a 7lb 8 month old as long as it's inside a uterus.:francis:

Based on what? :dahell:
 

ill

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Claiming that killing another being is no different than getting implants is the EXACT kind of terrible debate move the OP was talking about.

Your "side" has a different definition of what constitutes a human being. @JussieSmollett considers it a human being the moment of conception when a sperm enters an egg. The other side doesn't agree with that and doesnt view that as a human being. You don't understand the other sides argument if you share Jussie's views.
 

Meta Reign

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Claiming that killing another being is no different than getting implants is the EXACT kind of terrible debate move the OP was talking about.

And I'm really confused where you bring eugenics into it, wouldn't that be what the other side would accuse you of trying to do?





Based on what? :dahell:
Because it's HL, I guess. My faith is a bit low when it comes to this place. My bad breh.
 

Donald J Trump

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Your "side" has a different definition of what constitutes a human being. @JussieSmollett considers it a human being the moment of conception when a sperm enters an egg. The other side doesn't agree with that and doesnt view that as a human being. You don't understand the other sides argument if you share Jussie's views.
i said “future human being”

this like the 3rd time someone put words in my mouth

lastly
im moreso speaking on how folks lie to
themselves about this issue more than anything

havent truly revealed my views
 

Professor Emeritus

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:mindblown: How? How does this happen? How do some obviously intelligent people still manage to be religious? How do their heads not explode? Can anyone explain this to me? :mindblown:

The fact that you're so confused shows that you either don't know enough about the relevant issues yet, or have been too biased to see them from the other side.


There are intelligent, informed people who are atheists, and there are intelligent, informed people who are Christians. I can understand how both get there. If you have any particular issue via which you think religious belief is particularly unsupportable, I'd be happy to address it. I would be very surprised if you came up with one that I haven't already spent a good bit of time considering, as my faith is important enough to my life that don't want to leave any potential issues in it uncovered.



Your "side" has a different definition of what constitutes a human being. @JussieSmollett considers it a human being the moment of conception when a sperm enters an egg. The other side doesn't agree with that and doesnt view that as a human being. You don't understand the other sides argument if you share Jussie's views.
Let's use language carefully.

Linguistically, a "being" is simply a living creature. The fetus is both alive and is a creature. It is indisputably a being. Outside of the abortion wars this wouldn't even be a controversial statement in the slightest.

While we're here, the fetus is undeniably human. There is no possible scientific claim to be made that the fetus is not human.

What I think would fit your claims more accurately is the debate over whether the fetus is "a person". The argument over when a fetus gains personhood is robust and I don't see it ever being settled conclusively. Some people believe the fetus deserves personhood status when egg and sperm join, others say it is when it implants, others use some milestone like the first heartbeat or the first brainwaves, others suggest when it reaches viability, others when it exits the womb, and others will go so far as to wait until some milestone outside the womb such as the capacity for self-consciousness. There's no scientific way to settle what is fundamentally a subjective debate, and we have no universal grounds for morality which will settle the question. Thus the debate on the personhood of the fetus, and therefore its rights, will last a long time.

But regardless of whether it is a person, it is undeniably human, and it is undeniably living, and it is undeniably a being. No reasonable, in-use definition of those words would exclude it.
 
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Sghost597

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ViShawn

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You can certainly make an argument against abortion that is not religious based. People think that it's the religious right who are championing anti abortion here.

Abortion is not just a religious issue though. . . We're literally talking about Human Rights here. At some point it's totally logical to ask yourself, who will defend the rights of a 6 month old in utero? Have any of you seen video of a later term abortion? . . . It is without a doubt, murder.

Does this person not have a right to life? This isn't just religious.
 

AZBeauty

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Like @AZBeauty said, if you want to ban abortions, then do it. But also support the child and mother afterwards too. Childcare, wages, maternal leave, education, stuff like that.

It’s almost as if the gop cares more about a fetus than the child once it’s actually born.

Not almost, they don't. They literally show their disdain for people who arent rich, everyday.
 

Json

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i never said that
my statement stands alone :yeshrug:
I’m not talking about anyone in here.

One on one, a lot of people can admit and see nuance.


I’m talking about how this is talked about in the public sphere mostly politics.

Abortion get turned into either this gruesome act( as if most procedures of cutting into someone isn’t) or so benign that women treat it like taking a tic-tac and then going shopping at Macy. Then get abortions every few weeks cause who cares.


It is a procedure at its base idea. My sister had to have her baby removed after it died six months in. You can’t just leave it in to pass naturally.
 

barese

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I've always wondered whether anti-abortion people believe a woman in the early pregnancy should be forced to have a full pregnancy and give birth, and whether they are aware of all the risks associated with the process.

Even with the desired pregnancy, it is a difficult process constantly putting under stress one's desire for a child, all the testing and high blood pressure and pregnancy diabetes, the heart and liver risks, the pain even with epidural, the pain after a c-section or the pain of episiotomy for months, the pain of breastfeeding in the initial month, the trauma of baby blues (real depression is in a small number of cases, but baby blues hits 70% of the women mostly because of the impossibility to recover physically and because of the taboo around the difficulty of imprinting that often takes days), putting one's life and hobbies and interests on hold for at least several years, and not having even a second for oneself...

And I am not even mentioning the easier part of vomiting and not being able to eat, always sleeping in the first trimester, the change of appearance, the loss of sleep in the last trimester and for at least 2 years afterwards, the hemorrhoids for life, the abstinence from alcohol and coffee for almost 3 years if one follows the recommended 2-years breastfeeding.

Having a child is 100% worth it, and in Europe it does not even cost that much, but this doesn't make it any easier.

Every step of the way seems really difficult and I cannot even imagine the horror of forcing someone go through undesired pregnancy and giving birth and possibly child caretaking.
 

Red Shield

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Banning abortion won't fix their majority minority by 2050 problem. People in general are having fewer children because of the rising cost associated with having a child and wages being stagnate and quality of life hasnt improved. I only have one child and desperately want/ed another but all my husband talks about is how much it costs and he's right. The after school STEM program while free during the school year, during the summer will be almost $1000 for my daughter. I know for a fact when I was growing up, my mother wasnt paying money like that and we always went away to camp during the summer. I wish I could find that article from that Republican lawmaker talking about how banning would increase the white population.

pretty much. And even if you do remove the whole abortion thing...


WW3 will handle their numbers for good
 

ExodusNirvana

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Alabama State Senator Clyde Chambliss, who sponsored the abortion bill, characterized the legislation as a necessary government intervention to protect human rights. “When God creates the miracle of life inside a woman’s womb, it is not our place as human beings to extinguish that life,” Chambliss said.

:russ:
 
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88m3

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I'm not seeing a debate to be had? Republicans don't want women to even have a right to choose... this is an outright ban.
 

Mantis Toboggan M.D.

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Alabama State Senator Clyde Chambliss, who sponsored the abortion bill, characterized the legislation as a necessary government intervention to protect human rights. “When God creates the miracle of life inside a woman’s womb, it is not our place as human beings to extinguish that life,” Chambliss said.

:russ:
Shouldn’t this part have him removed from office on account of him disregarding the first amendment while trying to impose religion on the public? Even the pedophile who ran for the senate 18 months ago got kicked off the bench for this sort of conduct.
 
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