How many of the Nas/Hitboy albums you think are classic/will be classics?

[Cladyclad]

He's also rapping about the music industry changing, all of the albums he's touching on other topics. I'm guessing you're not listening to the albums

No one wants that

One thing u didn’t mention is the most important thing imo

His life. It has to be more than music and business

 

[Street Knowledge]

Are you saying Nas got a concert at MSG off the strength of KD3 as opposed to it being off the strength of Nas himself?

By your own logic, you consider The Blueprint III a classic then because Jay-Z did MSG in support of that too.

Classic album

 

[JoelB]

I'd be sick if I had to grasp at 4:44 in order to defend my favorite rapper

 

[BK The Great]

No one wants that

One thing u didn’t mention is the most important thing imo

His life. It has to be more than music and business

He's rapping about his life on all these albums, past relationships, his friendships etc. I'm not sure what fans want from a older rapper like Nas in this age

 

[Iverson_64]

They're all great albums but I think we have to wait until at least 2030 to see if they're classics or not because it's easy to live in the moment and call any quality album a "classic" in an era where they come so scarcely compared to the past.

However, this discussion has sparked an interesting debate over whether quality albums that lack impact/influence can be called classics or not.

Put it this way. If KD2, KD3, or Magic are classics, then you'd realistically also have to consider albums like Alfredo, Pray For Haiti, It's Almost Dry(which actually went number 1 despite low sales), Scaring The Hoes, A Written Testimony, Cheat Codes, and Melt My Eyez "classics" too since they're also great/quality hip hop albums that came out this decade.

Now, do you see how far the rabbit hole can go when you loosen the "classic" label in that way.

There's nothing wrong with an album simply being great or high quality. Not every album needs to be touted as a classic to be held up in high regard. Nas has been having an amazing run at his age. Many other rappers in his age range have either fallen off(Em, Ye), are on a hiatus(Jay), or straight up irrelevant musically(50, Snoop).

 

[Piff Perkins]

At my barbershop it’s the only Jay album my barber like lol

You need a new barber.

 

[Budda]

IWW and RD were released when both rappers were young, relevant, on the radio, and still crafting legacies. I don't think it's comparable to today. I know people disagree but I simply don't believe Nas or Jay can release anything today that defines or harms their legacies. They're set. The game clock is at 0, the score is settled. KRS has dropped multiple albums over the last 15 years and none of them impact his place either, whether good or bad.

Nas' legacy revolves around Illmatic through Life Is Good. With the most important/popular period of that being Illmatic through God's Son. Most people don't fukk with SD, HHID, or Untitled so Life Is Good is the comeback album that calmed haters down and made fans proud. In short, 1994-2012 is the era you're gonna hear about when you bring up Nas in a barbershop. With Jay it would be Reasonable Doubt through MCHG. Yea 444 is good but you're not gonna hear anyone talking about that at the shop either.

This is the thing using your logic 4.44 is a classic and Jay is more likely to make a classic than Nas not because he is a better rapper, not because he is making better songs but simply because he is more relevant popularity wise and still matters in mainstream circles.

This is not the 90’s, the only albums and rappers having ‘impact’ are mainstream ones with the machine behind them.

 

[Supa]

And thats the hard thing to figure out cause I think while Griselda and Roc have impact via inlfuence, more people might have heard these Nas/Hit projects, same with Hit. Both Griselda and Nas/Hit might have the same issue of dropping so much good records in the non mainstream it'll be harder to tell what sticks and stands out but I still think a classic can be just be a very great and memroable record.

That's not really a valid point. Roc and Griselda make underground music. It's always running counter to the mainstream. Albums like Marcberg, Flygod, and Madvillainy are classics because they forever changed how underground music is created and defined. You can listen to them and listen to everything that came out after them and hear the influence. They're genre defining albums. They shifted culture.

Illmatic is a classic for that same reason just on a more surface level. Lyrically it made everyone step up and it made multi producer albums a thing. It changed the genre. Compare Rae and Ghost on 36 Chambers to Cuban Linx. They're way more advanced lyrically and that's due to Nas raising the bar and becoming the new standard. Last time that happened was when Rakim was introduced. Moments like that are rare in music.

Go look at the hip hop albums that are heralded as classic and they have that in common. They're bigger than personal opinions because they move and advance culture. None of the Nas/Hit Boy albums do that.

shyt's just harder to qualify but I will say this....if its relevant to the artist career and you the listener have a strong experience with it, that might be enough for a classic.

That's not enough. We can say an album is very good to great or a personal favorite but the word classic has to mean something bigger than that. I have plenty of album I love but over the course of my time listening to hip hop only a handful will I call classic.

People will do their top ten Nas albums and have Illmatic #1 and KD3 at #6 but say KD3 is classic. You have to be able to objectively see the difference between the cultural impact of both albums.

To me, a classic album is something that has to stand the test of time. You play it years later and it's of especially high quality. It also has to mean something to the artist's career and/or legacy. When you're telling the artist's story, does this album have to be included or can you leave it out?

We don't have to wait 10 years. Classics are known early. Illmatic or 36 Chambers was instant. You knew because they were unlike anything you'd ever heard before. I never heard anyone saying those albums had to grow on them. I stepped outside and every car driving by was playing them. I went to school and that's all anyone wanted to talk about.

 

[Mike Wins]

Hip hop discourse too hung up on "classics" and nobody use the same definition

I mean you got albums that's landmarks that might be a 3.5/5 or 4/5 if you go song by song, but they changed the game and got historic tracks so they recognized as classics

Then you got albums that's basically flawless 5/5 but ain't really have a big or lasting impact

So if a true classic is a landmark album that's also a 5/5, then there's very few of those

You also got to look at the era and environment the album dropped in

For me Magic 1 my favorite hip hop album from the time it dropped to now. Will be listening to that forever. So it's a classic to me. But is it a classic in the way The Chronic, Doggystyle, Illmatic, Cuban Linx are classics? Hell no. But it don't need to be either. Nobody else dropping albums like that right now either. No rapper Nas age and stature ever had a run like this

 

[Mike Wins]

That's not really a valid point. Roc and Griselda make underground music. It's always running counter to the mainstream. Albums like Marcberg, Flygod, and Madvillainy are classics because they forever changed how underground music is created and defined. You can listen to them and listen to everything that came out after them and hear the influence. They're genre defining albums. They shifted culture.

Illmatic is a classic for that same reason just on a more surface level. Lyrically it made everyone step up and it made multi producer albums a thing. It changed the genre. Compare Rae and Ghost on 36 Chambers to Cuban Linx. They're way more advanced lyrically and that's due to Nas raising the bar and becoming the new standard. Last time that happened was when Rakim was introduced. Moments like that are rare in music.

Go look at the hip hop albums that are heralded as classic and they have that in common. They're bigger than personal opinions because they move and advance culture. None of the Nas/Hit Boy albums do that.



That's not enough. We can say an album is very good to great or a personal favorite but the word classic has to mean something bigger than that. I have plenty of album I love but over the course of my time listening to hip hop only a handful will I call classic.

People will do their top ten Nas albums and have Illmatic #1 and KD3 at #6 but say KD3 is classic. You have to be able to objectively see the difference between the cultural impact of both albums.



We don't have to wait 10 years. Classics are known early. Illmatic or 36 Chambers was instant. You knew because they were unlike anything you'd ever heard before. I never heard anyone saying those albums had to grow on them. I stepped outside and every car driving by was playing them. I went to school and that's all anyone wanted to talk about.

By the definition you using, none of these are classics. That's always the problem with this conversation though. Nobody use the same definition

You also got dudes on here who will say Nas only got one classic, then turn around and say American Gangster and 4:44 are classics, changing the criteria whenever it suit their interests

 

[WaveGang]

Zero and im a Nas fan

 

[Mike the Executioner]

That's not really a valid point. Roc and Griselda make underground music. It's always running counter to the mainstream. Albums like Marcberg, Flygod, and Madvillainy are classics because they forever changed how underground music is created and defined. You can listen to them and listen to everything that came out after them and hear the influence. They're genre defining albums. They shifted culture.

Illmatic is a classic for that same reason just on a more surface level. Lyrically it made everyone step up and it made multi producer albums a thing. It changed the genre. Compare Rae and Ghost on 36 Chambers to Cuban Linx. They're way more advanced lyrically and that's due to Nas raising the bar and becoming the new standard. Last time that happened was when Rakim was introduced. Moments like that are rare in music.

Go look at the hip hop albums that are heralded as classic and they have that in common. They're bigger than personal opinions because they move and advance culture. None of the Nas/Hit Boy albums do that.



That's not enough. We can say an album is very good to great or a personal favorite but the word classic has to mean something bigger than that. I have plenty of album I love but over the course of my time listening to hip hop only a handful will I call classic.

People will do their top ten Nas albums and have Illmatic #1 and KD3 at #6 but say KD3 is classic. You have to be able to objectively see the difference between the cultural impact of both albums.



We don't have to wait 10 years. Classics are known early. Illmatic or 36 Chambers was instant. You knew because they were unlike anything you'd ever heard before. I never heard anyone saying those albums had to grow on them. I stepped outside and every car driving by was playing them. I went to school and that's all anyone wanted to talk about.

Illmatic and 36 Chambers are instant classics by your definition. Not every classic work is going to hit immediately. How many artists put out projects that don't get any love when they come out, then get reappraised later? "RD, classic, shoulda went triple" and "Every CD, critics gave it a 3/Then three years later, they go back and re-rate it" are lines that exist for a reason.

Relapae is a perfect example. I don't think it's a classic album and it has a weird place in Eminem's catalog because he hasn't made anything like it before or since, but there are a lot of people that do consider it a classic. Mark Batson spoke about how nobody got Relapse when it came out, but now, there are people who praise it up and down. Salaam Remi said that when "Thief's Theme" came out, nobody was talking about it. Busta Rhymes thought the bassline was retarded, but it didn't get any attention. Years later, people came up to him and told him how much they loved the song. How many classic books or movies or TV shows were unappreciated in their time, then were looked at years later and given a higher status? A lot of classics get recognized throughout the years, not within five minutes.

 

[bigde09]

No one wants that

One thing u didn’t mention is the most important thing imo

His life. It has to be more than music and business

Imagine being a Jay stan and saying this

 

[Piff Perkins]

Illmatic and 36 Chambers are instant classics by your definition. Not every classic work is going to hit immediately. How many artists put out projects that don't get any love when they come out, then get reappraised later? "RD, classic, shoulda went triple" and "Every CD, critics gave it a 3/Then three years later, they go back and re-rate it" are lines that exist for a reason.

Relapae is a perfect example. I don't think it's a classic album and it has a weird place in Eminem's catalog because he hasn't made anything like it before or since, but there are a lot of people that do consider it a classic. Mark Batson spoke about how nobody got Relapse when it came out, but now, there are people who praise it up and down. Salaam Remi said that when "Thief's Theme" came out, nobody was talking about it. Busta Rhymes thought the bassline was retarded, but it didn't get any attention. Years later, people came up to him and told him how much they loved the song. How many classic books or movies or TV shows were unappreciated in their time, then were looked at years later and given a higher status? A lot of classics get recognized throughout the years, not within five minutes.

Sure classics can become more evident over time. But I would argue that you can kind of look around and sense an album has the potential to be classic pretty early. Either because it's ahead of its time, or the influence is seen later on, or it's a slow burn until people realize the impact, or people are scared to admit it's classic, etc.. That's been my question for the Hit Boy records. What's the classic pathway, where you can say it may not be 100% clear right now but I'm pretty sure xyz is gonna happen and we will point to this album as the start of it. Reasonable Doubt wasn't a classic when it came out, yet is viewed that way now.

This is six albums worth of songs. None were hits, none received much of any radio play, and 1-2 tracks charted iirc. I wouldn't care if this was an underground artist but it has to be pointed out for Nas. I'm not sure any of the tracks really get a crowd going. None of the new songs from Magic 3 are currently in the top 10 most streamed Nas songs on Spotify right now, one week after release. You never see that happen for noteworthy artists when a new project drops. I don't bring up numbers to argue classics are always about numbers. I bring it up to say...we know what Nas classic albums look like, how they impact, what they do, etc. This isn't that. These are a collection of good to great albums that a segment of Nas fans enjoy a lot. Good for us, we got fed! We can celebrate that without making this more than what it was/is.

 

[AMcV'88]

zero.

unless they get graded on an age group curve
where 4:44 is the old head standard bearer album at this point.