How much credibility do you lend a news report that is backed by an anonymous source?

Propaganda

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funny how certain people all of a sudden have such a big problem with anonymous sources now isn't it?

if big daddy maga says it's fake...:trumpbrain:

b-b-but it's not like it's a cult or anything. :whoa:

it seems that you dipshyts just think reporters/journalists/etc. just hear "some guy" say "some shyt" and then get a green light on that by reputable news organizations to write whatever the fukk they want based on that. to clue you in, that's not how it works. vetting is required, multiple sources are required, i mean, fukk, there are plenty of standards to be met and shown and proven just to get through the department, let alone through the top-line editor, let alone for a piece about a major public official.

'b-b-but they're biased!" yeah. there probably is a bit of bias. but that's more likely to be a function of them choosing to publish a story or not, rather than the veracity of it. cuz these established publications don't wanna risk their sources, their relationships, their integrity, their very legitimacy on getting swindled or from just straight up fantasy from their contributors.

and ultimately, when they're wrong which sometimes happens, all the legit news media admits it, write corrections, etc. they straighten that shyt out, publicly.

so fukk off.
 

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Watergate and a number of the other biggest stories of the last couple generations were broken due to anonymous sources.

The same people who are claiming that "I don't trust that fake news based on anonymous sources" are the people who say that the government offs people for leaks, right?

Why are you playing both sides? You complain when those in power try to keep whistleblowers from revealing the truth, but then you want to discredit those same whistleblowers when they risk their job and their lives to get the information out to the media?

Reputable sources of journalism (like most of our traditional national papers) have systems of journalistic ethics and integrity that they have to follow. They vet sources, they follow-up on what they are told, they get other independent confirmation, and they use language in the story that accurately reflects the source and potential validity of the information, with qualifications. They simply don't "make things up." They have bias, they can sometimes use slanted language, they sometimes might only report one side of the story. But they're reporting things they believe to be true and anyone who makes a story up on false sources loses their job with the quickness. And real publishers of journalism retract stories and offer apologies when they're wrong.

Note that I am speaking of respected and established journalistic sources that follow industry-standard ethics here. I'm talking about New York Times, Washington Post, Guardian, etc. I'm not talking about Rolling Stone, Salon, Huffington Post, or any of the cable news shows or talk radio. You have to know who to trust and who not to trust based on the reputation and history they've established. The best sources of journalism pretty much base their entire selling point on that reputation, and they don't do things that would threaten it.



Also, given the fact that much of the media is bought and sold by a few rich men...there's always some hidden agenda.

NY Times = Carlos Slim

Washington Post = Jeff Bezos

Fox News = Roger Ailes

There are very few true news sources that report without a bias or a slant and that's sad.

Everyone on earth has a "bias" or a "slant." But I'm not sure what point you think you're making by pointing out that big things are owned by wealthy people. Carlos Slim only owns 17% of the shares of the New York Times and is in the process of selling off most of that. There is no evidence that he ever influenced coverage in any way, that he even cared to, or that he could have. It was an investment he made during the financial crisis when shares were under $8 and now they're close to $20, he did well with it, that's likely all he gave a damn about.

What do you think happens? Mr. Slim puts in a call to some editor, tells them, "I own 17% of the shares in the NYT, therefore you better write X about whatever story, or I'l.....????" What could he do? And if he did make that call to the editor, the editor then tells a journalist to change a story? And all that shyt goes down without any editors or journalists reporting the shadiness, having a crisis of conscience, writing a tell-all book, etc?

I have no doubt that owners of media (when they actually own and control it, not just having some random minority stake) have an influence on what shows are produced, what stars are hired, etc. Bezos buying up the Washington Post led them to change up their internet operation, change how they produced content, etc. They could have some influence over the types of editors and journalists who get the news. They could have a lot of influence over the types of opinionators who are hired - which is not news. But I don't see them planting stories. That would be an enormous scandal.




The internet has democratized a lot but with the current attack on net neutrality that won't last long...

And at that, the internet is saturated with trolls, from political parties, advocacy groups, non-profits, who try to strangle out any narrative they feel is oppositional to their narrative so even on the net it's hard to get at honesty, fact, and the truth.

Please, there is no way that actual organized trolls sent by groups with an agenda are anything more than a tiny % of the internet noise. The vast majority of trolls and idiots pushing fake narratives on the internet are just trolls and idiots, they are "from" anyone. That would be the stupidest waste of human resources I could imagine. If you're gonna push fake news, you do it through a propaganda channel, whether official (RT) or unofficial (Zero Hedge, Sean Hannity), or you push it through willing bloggers. Trolls are far too numerous to be cost-effective in impact.
 
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That’s the point of having a reputation in the news business...
Having a reputation doesn't equal truth.

Example, NY Times fires Jayson Blair for making up stories. The Rolling Stone gets into a
This is your first mistake. This statement makes a claim without any supporting evidence hereafter.

No one here is questioning that journalists utilize anonymous sources. No one's even arguing that they're not common. But to claim "overuse" is an accusation I would need to see evidence for. I'd also have to obtain an expert opinion (i.e. an actual journalist) as to what the threshold is for "overuse".



They do. It just depends on which news outlet you're talking about. :francis:



I'll do you one better: there are none. Every media source is biased. :yeshrug:

Depending on what kind of news story you're reading, some are more biased than others, but bias still exists.

The problem is, bias and factual reporting are not always mutually exclusive. I could tell you:

"THE SKY IS BLUE" :infocrazy:

and be an InfoWars junkie that thinks Obama's staging a secret coup to oust Trump, regain the presidency, take our guns, and establish Sharia law in the US.

I may have crazy amounts of bias, but that doesn't mean me telling you the sky is blue is somehow now incorrect. :panthersafe:

Being somehow correct has nothing to do with the truth. Truth has to be corroborated with evidence. This means, a source makes a statement and backs that statement up with documents, notes, audio, video, etc. proving what they said is true. Something tangible, something hard to prove said allegation, otherwise it rises to the level of gossip. This is, like you are saying, not to say what is being said can't be true...however, it does mean to say that the audience can and should in my belief take it with a grain of salt until proven factual. What I'm gathering is everyone is hoping that people rush to judgment based on anonymous sources and the brand integrity of the media outlet. I'm saying that's not enough.

Trump has proven himself a racist based on his own words and actions. Me not completely buying into the NY Times account doesn't take away from me knowing that Trump is a bigot and a racist. I guess some get enjoyment from regurgitating all this...yeah, not me, he's a racist, now what?

I read the piece and it was just weird to me...too many anonymous sources not enough actual fact or evidence.

The NY Times has been known to make up facts, see Jayson Blair (there are others btw, he's just the one who immediately comes to mind to me).

Experts are criticizing the overuse of anonymous sourcing. NY Times has even criticized itself for this!

Vanity Fair just wrote a great piece on Maggie Haberman and how sh
Tightening the Screws on Anonymous Sources


New York Times takes a tougher approach on unnamed sources

Opinion | Squandered Trust

There is a huge debate about the overuse of anonymous sourcing in today's all over regarding ethics in journalism questioning the overuse of anonymous sources to back up claims.

Also, there's something called investigative journalism which used to devote resources to investigating claims made by sources. You mention Watergate...it was investigative journalism which corroborated the claims made by deep throat which broke the story backed up by actual evidence, e.g., taped conversations.

Proof is important. We live in the age of confirmation bias.

Infowars is an example of this...tons of bloviating with no proof.

This NY Times article is an example of this as well.

I don't like either because neither is journalism. Both masquerade as journalism but their not.

And the consolidation of press is a huge issue and does have an impact on the editorial direction of a news brand there's no denying that.
 

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Having a reputation doesn't equal truth.

Example, NY Times fires Jayson Blair for making up stories. The Rolling Stone gets into a


Being somehow correct has nothing to do with the truth. Truth has to be corroborated with evidence. This means, a source makes a statement and backs that statement up with documents, notes, audio, video, etc. proving what they said is true. Something tangible, something hard to prove said allegation, otherwise it rises to the level of gossip. This is, like you are saying, not to say what is being said can't be true...however, it does mean to say that the audience can and should in my belief take it with a grain of salt until proven factual. What I'm gathering is everyone is hoping that people rush to judgment based on anonymous sources and the brand integrity of the media outlet. I'm saying that's not enough.

Trump has proven himself a racist based on his own words and actions. Me not completely buying into the NY Times account doesn't take away from me knowing that Trump is a bigot and a racist. I guess some get enjoyment from regurgitating all this...yeah, not me, he's a racist, now what?

I read the piece and it was just weird to me...too many anonymous sources not enough actual fact or evidence.

The NY Times has been known to make up facts, see Jayson Blair (there are others btw, he's just the one who immediately comes to mind to me).

You say that "The NY Times" has been known to make up facts, but they you quote Jayson Blair, a particular individual, as the one who made up facts. In truth, the New York Times are the ones who EXPOSED Blair, who wrote a massive front-page story titled "Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception", who detailed everything he had done wrong, apologized for it, and called it a low point in their paper's history. The entire inquiry was internal - they exposed their own for his lies.

That's a trustworthy source. It's not possible to force every one of your hundreds of employees to be saints. No human organization can ever do that. But if you are carefully vetting your own employees, carefully ensuring they maintain your standards, and firing them and openly exposing them when they fail to do so, and apologize for their errors and correct them...what more could you possibly ask for?
 
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You say that "The NY Times" has been known to make up facts, but they you quote Jayson Blair, a particular individual, as the one who made up facts. In truth, the New York Times are the ones who EXPOSED Blair, who wrote a massive front-page story titled "Times Reporter Who Resigned Leaves Long Trail of Deception", who detailed everything he had done wrong, apologized for it, and called it a low point in their paper's history. The entire inquiry was internal - they exposed their own for his lies.

That's a trustworthy source. It's not possible to force every one of your hundreds of employees to be saints. No human organization can ever do that. But if you are carefully vetting your own employees, carefully ensuring they maintain your standards, and firing them and openly exposing them when they fail to do so, and apologize for their errors and correct them...what more could you possibly ask for?

There are more examples than Blair. ...

Also, did you simply gloss over the NY Time questioning itself for the overuse of anonymous sourcing?

Readers complained that it was making them lose trust in the Times as a news source so editors changed their standards on anonymous sourcing.

Currently, even those standards are being transgressed as the Times, in trying to compete with the immediacy of the internet and with blogs have relaxed those standards again.

Here are more reports with experts questioning the overuse of anonymous sources and the current state of journalism.

Trump has solid point on NYT 'stumble' story sourcing **This is an opinion piece but it cites a number of media experts**

Trump has solid point on NYT 'stumble' story sourcing
BY JOE CONCHA, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR - 02/08/17 06:40 AM EST 86
10

newyorktimes_120616getty.jpg

© Getty Images
As you may have noticed, President Trump picks some ill-advised and pointless fights with the media, including those over inauguration crowd size or what he calls the media’s lack of coverage of terror attacks.

But in some cases, he makes legitimate points worthy of deeper inspection, such as Monday's New York Times story that goes into vivid detail about what happens in the White House in the evening.



"Aides confer in the dark because they cannot figure out how to operate the light switches in the cabinet room. Visitors conclude their meetings and then wander around, testing doorknobs until finding one that leads to an exit," said the story, written by Maggie Haberman and Glenn Thrush.


"When Mr. Trump is not watching television in his bathrobe or on his phone reaching out to old campaign hands and advisers, he will sometimes set off to explore the unfamiliar surroundings of his new home," they added.

Trump responded in his usual manner via twitter, calling the story "total fiction" via made-up "stories and sources."

On cue, many elites in media dismiss Trump's tweet as another baseless temper tantrum without actually exploring Trump's claim around a lack of sourcing.

Also on cue is the White House response via press secretary Sean Spicer, who demanded an apology from the newspaper, calling the piece "literally the epitome of fake news."

So was the story presented in a responsible manner? Or was it misleading and sloppy? The Hill spoke with three media experts on the matter, starting with Jeff McCall, a professor of communication at DePauw University and media critic.

"The sourcing on this story is quite weak, especially at the outset. The reader has no idea where this information is coming from, or if the details are even really coming from a source," McCall explains.

"The story is eight paragraphs deep before the writers give any sense of the sourcing, and then only give a generalized sense of it coming from "interviews with dozens" of people, many of whom aren't being named. The reporters owe it to the audience to give clear sourcing and as soon in the story as possible," he continues. "The style of this story reads much like a bit of fiction."

One part of the piece that is getting major — and ridiculous — traction on social media and certain quarters of cable news focuses on the low-hanging fruit that Trump allegedly wears a bathrobe every evening.

It didn't help the president that Spicer specifically addressed that part of the story, stating that he didn't even think Trump "owns a bathrobe."

Noah Rothman, an assistant online editor at Commentary Magazine, says Spicer's reaction particularly on the detail of Trump sitting around in a bathrobe watching cable news actually had a boomerang effect on whether the story is legitimate or not.

"I am usually skeptical of stories that include novel-like micro details that set the stage, but Spicer's insane reaction around Trump not owning a bathrobe, for example, makes me feel like its entirely legit."

On cue again came the cynical media brigade, which quickly circulated "proof" Trump does own a bathrobe by retweeting en masse a story in the UK's Daily Mail featuring the billionaire in a bathrobe. The photo was taken in the late 1970s, of course, but why let the fact the photos being 30-40 years old get in the way of another needless narrative?

Maggie Haberman, who co-authored the story and also serves as a CNN contributor, told Anderson Cooper on Monday that the part about staffers not being able to turn on the lights was meant to paint the new administration in a positive light.

"Frankly, we thought it was sort of endearing," Haberman said.

It is interesting — for lack of a better word — that Haberman and Thrush have been assigned to cover the Trump White House for the paper of record considering both were named in the 2016 WikiLeaks email dumps as reporters sympathetic to the Democratic party.

Thrush, for example, was shown to share stories in advance with the Clinton campaign.

“Please don’t share or tell anyone I did this Tell me if I f****d up anything," Thrush, who was with Politico at the time, wrote to John Podesta while sharing the entire text of a story pertaining to the campaign chairman.

"Pls read asap — the [Jennifer Palmieri] bits — don’t share," he wrote to Clinton communications director Jennifer Palmieri while again sharing the text verbatim.

Thrush faced no reprimand from Politico, did not apologize and was eventually hired by the New York Times, considered by many reporters as the top of the journalism mountain as far as career path in concerned.

Haberman was described as a “friendly journalist” who has “teed up” stories for the Clinton campaign in the past and “never disappointed” them, according to an email WikiLeaks released from Clinton press secretary Nick Merrill.

haberman.jpg


A look at the Twitter feeds of Haberman and Thrush also reveal overwhelming anti-Trump sentiment on a continuous basis.

"It (the New York Times) is also to hold power to account, impartially and unflinchingly. You can rely on The New York Times to bring the same fairness, the same level of scrutiny, the same independence to our coverage of the new president and his team," executive editor Dean Baquet wrote in a note to readers in November after the election. "

If that's the goal, is it wise to have two reporters who have shown themselves to be anything but impartial, via Wikileaks and their own Twitter feeds, covering the Trump White House?

Brian Flood, a veteran media reporter for The Wrap and formerly a managing editor at TV Newser, said the Haberman/Thrush story was intentionally written to put the Trump administration in a poor light. Literally.

"The first few sentences of this story paint Trump’s aides as a bunch of clowns," argues Flood. "They also use the word 'dark' twice in the second paragraph, which is exactly how this story wants to describe the Trump administration," he adds, a reference to how the word "dark" is often used to described Trump's agenda.

McCall concludes the Times and its reporters should focus on less on electricity at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and more on news that actually matters.

"The overall tone of the story is to create an impression that it is amateur hour in the White House. "The stuff about staffers being too stupid to turn on the lights and unnamed visitors not knowing how to find an exit door is quite unnecessary," McCall said.

"If it is, indeed, amateur hour in the White House, finding light switches is the least of the concerns.

Joe Concha is a media reporter for The Hill.
 

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depends on what the anonymous source is reporting. if an anonymous source says that obama is smoking cigarettes again i would believe it. if an anonymous source said dwight howard just impregnated baby mama #7 i would believe it. if an anonymous source says that alpha male is a cacuck that posts ads looking for BBCs to nail his wife while he watches i would believe it.
 

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There are more examples than Blair. ...

Also, did you simply gloss over the NY Time questioning itself for the overuse of anonymous sourcing?

How ironic. I completely mop up the major points you made, and you ignore literally every single word I said in multiple comments in order to double-down on something I didn't even respond to?


As far as anonymous sourcing goes, you notice that being a reputable organization, the New York Times is questioning itself and doing it publicly. That's a sign of health, not a sign of weakness. It is a GOOD thing that they question themselves and ensure that they're holding themselves to the highest standards. To use that as a "gotcha" is ridiculous - if they didn't question themselves, would you trust them more?



Here are more reports with experts questioning the overuse of anonymous sources and the current state of journalism.

Trump has solid point on NYT 'stumble' story sourcing **This is an opinion piece but it cites a number of media experts**

Looks like you are the one who isn't to be trusted. There were at least three misleading statements you just made in that first sentence alone.

You said, "here are more reports" (plural) and then quote ONE opinion piece.

You claimed that the report had experts questioning "the current state of journalism" when in fact the entire article is about ONE bad story.

And you say that the article is about the "overuse of anonymous sources" when in fact it is about POOR sourcing, which is not the same thing.


They are right that that's a bad article. The main reason it's a bad article is that it aims to be novel-like, trying to set up too much "narrative" at the cost of not being at all clear in how it was sourcing its information. The real issue there isn't the overuse of anonymous sources, it's making claims without being transparent about how those claims are sourced and verified, and thus potentially letting through poorly sourced or unverified claims.
 

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i studied journalism in college. just so you guys are aware of the standards my program taught im going to go over the standards they generally teach us.
there are degrees of anonymity you can give someone. you can refer to them
by name (the usual sourcing of someones name and role) background (no name but their specific role like their position in a specific organization) and deep background (just where theyre involved not the role).
were taught that people mostly wont trust anonymous sources and that having a specific name to something prevents people from making shyt up. strongly discouraged from using them unless someones life/job can be at risk.
basically teach us that if you get an anonymous source try to use that info to get someone else on the record by revealing to their organization that you know it.
people are more trustworthy if theyve given you legit info before and having multiple different anonymous sources does lend credibility. but its a last case scenario in general.
 
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