How Poverty Changes the Brain

NZA

LOL
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
21,169
Reputation
4,009
Daps
54,167
Reppin
These Internet Streetz
I know this is a sensitive topic but hopefully people will read my comment in it's entirety as I know reading comprehension can be a struggle for some members here.

I wonder if this same constant fight or flight state is what causes people in poverty to continue to reproduce more on average than people with wealth.

It would make sense that the primitive brain is telling you that resources are scarce and you may not be around much longer so to preserve the gene pool you need to reproduce NOW. However, counter to that the pre-frontal cortex should also deduce even at the primitive level that BECAUSE there are no resources progeny will die (or in the case of ancient times be vulnerable to predators or competitors when you are dead). So maybe this research doesn't fully answer my question.

I am trying to figure out what exactly aside from government benefits motivates poor people to have 4 kids and you look at suburban families (regardless of race) having 2 kids. Everyone has various excuses but the statistics show that this is a human habit that transcends race, religion or any other fixed markers. It is exclusive to the variables of education and economic wealth. But the ability to achieve higher education these days means to a certain degree you come from economic wealth. It is a catch-22 cycle because less children is often associated with more income - Which is why I tend to believe that we need to err on the side of having 1 or 2 kids maximum instead of 3 or 4. With every additional child the quality of attention and resources each child receives drops exponentially. And you get kids that turn out with ADHD etc in part because of this.
i think poor people are noticing that, at least for poor blacks, getting a college education and delaying childbirth do not necessarily help with upward mobility. when that happens, you can see that delaying having children and taking out student loans wont move the needle much so you just have the kids you want and struggle to raise them. :yeshrug:
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
889
Reputation
350
Daps
2,163
i think poor people are noticing that, at least for poor blacks, getting a college education and delaying childbirth do not necessarily help with upward mobility. when that happens, you can see that delaying having children and taking out student loans wont move the needle much so you just have the kids you want and struggle to raise them. :yeshrug:

That is within my expected range of conclusions as well - But surely there must be a 3rd option???

My whole life is the road less traveled....I refused to subscribe to anyone else's conditions and I carved my own path. Regarding children specifically I never cared much for them for various reasons.

My viewpoint I don't expect others to share because I was an only child for the most part (I have a half-sister but it's complicated) and just noticed that my peers with siblings seemed a lot more stressed, less privacy, less mobility and less opportunity because they literally had to fight siblings for food and attention etc.

But no one has the basic curiosity to try and seek alternative paths? It's just like everyone subscribing to either Democrat or Republican but not considering that NEITHER is right for this country???
 

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
24,593
Reputation
13,011
Daps
99,601
Reppin
Old Brooklyn
goes back to my inherited behavior thread people were hating on
if trauma is passed down through genes, if poverty puts people in debilitating fear and if rich blacks have no incentive to make business decisions that benefit the diaspora
then how do we get people to act for our collective-interest?
Great question.

I've been thinking about the algorithm to figuring that out.

One of the first steps or realizations will have to be that the pitch to investing in the poorest communities with the goal of helping these communities become conducive to highly productive and included*(1) members of society is by abandoning the moral compass plea when making a public*(2) movement on behalf of these communities.

Essentially, those, like us, who care deeply about these communities need to understand the reality of human empathy. If we are going to be completely objective, we must understand that people from different backgrounds have issues we already hold very close to our chest. This is something that, when focused on, makes us disappointed in how people react to our pleas, movements, and/or protests.
For instance, I consider myself an empathetic human being who, although Black, empathize with struggle/trauma that happens to be people of any and every background or demographic.

With that being said, I hold Black issues, poverty in the Americas, and drug reform and decriminalization very close to my chest. Now, if someone approaches me to give a long diatribe against Russian annexation of Ukraine and how oppressive the Russian actions are for Ukrainians, I will feel for their cause, but I will most likely not be compelled to do more than listen and dedicate some thoughts to it.

It doesn't mean I like Ukrainians being oppressed or because I am pro-Russia; it means I have limited time and resources and the issue isn't, in my mind, connected enough for me to take anymore action than a share here, a like there and a pray elsewhere.

We have to make the same deduction about the reaction/action or lack there of when we make moral pleas to people regarding the issues we care about.

So the solution on how to compel a society to make significant and efficient strides towards fixing the problems associated with poverty lies in the succinct plea/pitch that focuses on showing of how poverty, and its related causes, DIRECTLY cause noticeable and serious damage to the their everyday life, resources, safety, etc.

My frustration lies in my trying to make that plea succinct. The investment of resources into these communities will lower rent/ real estate for everyone. The investment would drastically reduce incarceration rates which would translate into less tax money going into the building of prisons. The investment would also mean the efficient use of public assistance allowing poverty stricken communities to receive such programs that help left these communities into self-sustained productivity as opposed to perpetually keeping them in a dependence.

We all know the ways in which the betterment of poverty stricken communities would improve the overall health of a Country or society, the key is showing the direct and, if possible, immediate benefit. If you or I could figure THAT part out, you won't change the elite(because they are in their very on bubble) but you may be able to shift the tide of thought and opinion of the middle class which comes with their voting block and their resources.

Great article and great thread.


*(1) - I highlighted included to make a distinction between:
The negative -having these communities being productive for the benefit of those in higher social classes than them.
and
The positive - having them be a productive part of society and, in turn, have them in a situation where there is a greater opportunity to feel as if they are also a respected part of society. Clearly, I'm going for the positive distinction.

*(2) - Public was important to highlight as to proactively secure my argument from being viewed like I am trivializing the moral element of improving things. Internally or personally, you or my initiatives and motives should be guided by a rational morality and belief in doing the right thing. This can and should be the core of your think tank however, everyone has an issue that they care about deeply that others don't. It's an almost impossible battle to try to sway the majority of a society adopt your cause when they have their own causes. The key is to make them realize that THIS cause has a direct and immediate affect on them and a fix would immediately make things better for them, too.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
889
Reputation
350
Daps
2,163
So the solution on how to compel a society to make significant and efficient strides towards fixing the problems associated with poverty lies in the succinct plea/pitch that focuses on showing of how poverty, and its related causes, DIRECTLY cause noticeable and serious damage to the their everyday life, resources, safety, etc.

I get the necessity here of you stating this point but to my understanding it implies CACs care or will ever have mercy for the chronic poverty conditions that minorities are in let alone other CACs that have been chronically poor for generations.

There is no need to "prove it out" because they don't give a damn. Most of your post only pertains to when you have the privilege of working with logical empathetic people. Long story short you can not reason with people who don't give a fukk to begin with about anything other than themselves.

We have a President in office that doesn't even give a shyt about his own broke constituents who voted him in - Do you really think that this country is capable in the next 100 years of implementing ANY programs of ANY nature that are based on logic and/or common sense.

It is up to us individually and as small communities to insulate ourselves against the tidal wave and/or ride them to our desired destination while sustaining minimal damage.

Another analogy is that we are AT WAR with not just competing with other people but within ourselves. And we are sustaining losses because our ranks and regiments are not tight as they should be.

There are too many openings in our flanks.
 

DPresidential

The Coli's Ralph Ellison
Supporter
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
24,593
Reputation
13,011
Daps
99,601
Reppin
Old Brooklyn
I get the necessity here of you stating this point but to my understanding it implies CACs care or will ever have mercy for the chronic poverty conditions that minorities are in let alone other CACs that have been chronically poor for generations.

There is no need to "prove it out" because they don't give a damn. Most of your post only pertains to when you have the privilege of working with logical empathetic people. Long story short you can not reason with people who don't give a fukk to begin with about anything other than themselves.

We have a President in office that doesn't even give a shyt about his own broke constituents who voted him in - Do you really think that this country is capable in the next 100 years of implementing ANY programs of ANY nature that are based on logic and/or common sense.

It is up to us individually and as small communities to insulate ourselves against the tidal wave and/or ride them to our desired destination while sustaining minimal damage.

Another analogy is that we are AT WAR with not just competing with other people but within ourselves. And we are sustaining losses because our ranks and regiments are not tight as they should be.

There are too many openings in our flanks.
I understand what you're saying.

I'm going to be objective, again, in my response, breh.

The classification of "whites" or cacs as one defining group is not something I adhere to. Maybe this requires a separate thread but
I am aware of the very real and nefarious quality of white supremacy and because of it, I give it its just indictment when discussing these issues but I don't classify people under white and it frustrates them.

When you break "white" down to being specifically as a social construct that depends on oppression, you start to see nikkas back away and hesitate from considering themselves white, unless they are TRUE racists. Try it, it'll big them out. I'll make a thread on why that's my side strategy to combating white supremacy and if we all did it, considering how trendy and influential we are, it would break down the only "unifying" quality of all those who are considered white.

Once you do that, you'll be able to bring up how white supremacy oppressed Irish, Italians and Eastern Europeans immigrants when they first arrived off the boat onto the shores of the U.S. Once a person is convinced that they are Irish American or Irish, etc, instead of White, they'll be more prone to shed the guilt and indict white supremacy w/o feeling like they just indicted themselves.

Now, you have a person who can be convinced that white supremacy is/was/can be their enemy, also.

Anyway, my views are based on my own education on how not so unified the people we've considered white have been throughout history.

I see we are in the ROOT and not the locker room so I'm hoping we can be candid and mature about this but I don't "white" people are being so homogeneously similar and connected that I can accept that they are all or mostly bad.

Human beings are genetically identical for the most part. And a newborn baby born in a vacuum, regardless of skin color, without our social constructs would not just start oppressing the other baby more than the other baby would have the propensity to oppress the first baby.

We are malleable and, again, the point is not to have the "white" people care about the plight of poverty stricken because of a moral reason...it would be, as I indicated, in a way that shows the improvement of the situations of the poor would have a positive, direct and immediate affect on the pockets, life, and standard of living of those "whites" or other people who aren't poor.
 

Geek Nasty

Brain Knowledgeably Whizzy
Supporter
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
28,731
Reputation
4,124
Daps
108,394
Reppin
South Kakalaka
I was broke as fukk in college. There was this 2 week period where I was at the end of my rope and didn't even have money for food. I was basically eating scraps for 2 weeks. You get that broke and that hungry, some scary thoughts start popping into your head. I could have easily been that brother you see on the evening news if someone said the wrong thing or the wrong opportunity presented itself. IT's easy to be "moral" when you've got a full belly and your bills are all paid.
 

Larry Lambo

Superstar
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Messages
8,814
Reputation
1,700
Daps
30,657
Agree with the article, but a lot of it has to do with the social issues within impoverished areas.

Humans have dealt with a lack of resources for our entire existence and can cope with that through strong communities and families. But when the areas become unsafe, families broken up, health deteriorates, and toxic mentalities develop through media, then it's a major blow to the psyche.

Most of our ancestors were dirt poor but they had a much stronger support network than people today. It's clearly reflected in the behaviors and mentality of a large segment of our population.
 

Will Ross

Superstar
Bushed
Joined
May 5, 2012
Messages
24,714
Reputation
-6,053
Daps
59,322
I feel that middle class black Familes are the ones really struggling. The Have to deal with way more than poor or rich blacks have to deal with.
 

WheatThins

All Star
Joined
Dec 28, 2015
Messages
851
Reputation
200
Daps
2,597
Like people dont get that black children who grow up in lower income enviornments and make it out are argubly geniuses being that they were able to navigate out these systems that are literally set up to destroy them and with no real help.

Hell I always said I probably would have went to an ivy league school if i actually was in a system that could have maximized my skills as a kid.

Black kids cant even get help from their parents because they literally have to work all the time to keep the lights on.
this x 10000000

going through so much as a kid just to make it out... maaaaan, can't no one tell me shyt now though at least, definitely not of my white peers. i worked hard but it made me very confident. at the very least i know that none of their minds work like mine and that is at minimum some creative advantage for having to assimilate at so many levels

i notice that with many of my peers who grew up in poverty though. it was very hard for us to escape, but when we do, we excel. pressure make diamonds.

wont speak on the black lower class/middle class divide, but theres def a difference there, though im not sure if it matters in our collective journey
 

BunchePark

Coli N Calisthenics
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
4,801
Reputation
1,702
Daps
12,844
Reppin
Broward
When you confronted with the facts and you respond with "feelings" you will FAIL...most times if not every time


Motha fukk these crackers my nikka growing up poor the best thing to happen to me i fukking made it and i have no debt which made it easier to come up fukk their system believe in you. You nikkas will use a glitch in 2k but not the glitches in real life? Explain that

These cacs run shyt and have been what are you doing to pull yourself out of it? Crying? For us single momma raised nikkas like me who went through the traps and pitfalls and rose above it salute! fukk your tears nikka get to it. I was used byba system the cracker created but i bet my kids wont be and thats my peace of mind find your own.

Statue of limitations is up for your childhood trauma fukk what you went thru nikka the rent due! You hear me!

This past weekend at a cancer even no less my company raised 43K while i proceeded to watch these cacs snort cocaine and even offer me some amongst all type of children (out of view) but amongst kids my nikka, theae are all trump supporting lily whites. Years ago that would have burned me inside as a ex con who got convicted for dope but this weekend i smiled because i realized the double standards will go nowhere what you crying bout nikka get to work, if you got kids and allow them to fall into the same traps your to blame nikka fukk being a victim that shyt over with
 

ahdsend

Superstar
Joined
May 1, 2014
Messages
5,019
Reputation
2,340
Daps
21,721
:francis:



America is Regressing into a Developing Nation for Most People

You’ve probably heard the news that the celebrated post-WW II beating heart of America known as the middle class has gone from “burdened,” to “squeezed” to “dying.” But you might have heard less about what exactly is emerging in its place.

In a new book, The Vanishing Middle Class: Prejudice and Power in a Dual Economy, Peter Temin, Professor Emeritus of Economics at MIT, draws a portrait of the new reality in a way that is frighteningly, indelibly clear: America is not one country anymore. It is becoming two, each with vastly different resources, expectations, and fates.

Two roads diverged

In one of these countries live members of what Temin calls the “FTE sector” (named for finance, technology, and electronics, the industries which largely support its growth). These are the 20 percent of Americans who enjoy college educations, have good jobs, and sleep soundly knowing that they have not only enough money to meet life’s challenges, but also social networks to bolster their success. They grow up with parents who read books to them, tutors to help with homework, and plenty of stimulating things to do and places to go. They travel in planes and drive new cars. The citizens of this country see economic growth all around them and exciting possibilities for the future. They make plans, influence policies, and count themselves as lucky to be Americans.

The FTE citizens rarely visit the country where the other 80 percent of Americans live: the low-wage sector. Here, the world of possibility is shrinking, often dramatically. People are burdened with debt and anxious about their insecure jobs if they have a job at all. Many of them are getting sicker and dying younger than they used to. They get around by crumbling public transport and cars they have trouble paying for. Family life is uncertain here; people often don’t partner for the long-term even when they have children. If they go to college, they finance it by going heavily into debt. They are not thinking about the future; they are focused on surviving the present. The world in which they reside is very different from the one they were taught to believe in. While members of the first country act, these people are acted upon.

The two sectors, notes Temin, have entirely distinct financial systems, residential situations, and educational opportunities. Quite different things happen when they get sick, or when they interact with the law. They move independently of each other. Only one path exists by which the citizens of the low-wage country can enter the affluent one, and that path is fraught with obstacles. Most have no way out.

The richest large economy in the world, says Temin, is coming to have an economic and political structure more like a developing nation. We have entered a phase of regression, and one of the easiest ways to see it is in our infrastructure: our roads and bridges look more like those in Thailand or Venezuela than the Netherlands or Japan. But it goes far deeper than that, which is why Temin uses a famous economic model created to understand developing nations to describe how far inequality has progressed in the United States. The model is the work of West Indian economist W. Arthur Lewis, the only person of African descent to win a Nobel Prize in economics. For the first time, this model is applied with systematic precision to the U.S.

The result is profoundly disturbing.

In the Lewis model of a dual economy, much of the low-wage sector has little influence over public policy. Check. The high-income sector will keep wages down in the other sector to provide cheap labor for its businesses. Check. Social control is used to keep the low-wage sector from challenging the policies favored by the high-income sector. Mass incarceration - check. The primary goal of the richest members of the high-income sector is to lower taxes. Check. Social and economic mobility is low. Check.

In the developing countries Lewis studied, people try to move from the low-wage sector to the affluent sector by transplanting from rural areas to the city to get a job. Occasionally it works; often it doesn’t. Temin says that today in the U.S., the ticket out is education, which is difficult for two reasons: you have to spend money over a long period of time, and the FTE sector is making those expenditures more and more costly by defunding public schools and making policies that increase student debt burdens.

Getting a good education, Temin observes, isn’t just about a college degree. It has to begin in early childhood, and you need parents who can afford to spend time and resources all along the long journey. If you aspire to college and your family can’t make transfers of money to you on the way, well, good luck to you. Even with a diploma, you will likely find that high-paying jobs come from networks of peers and relatives. Social capital, as well as economic capital, is critical, but because of America’s long history of racism and the obstacles it has created for accumulating both kinds of capital, black graduates often can only find jobs in education, social work, and government instead of higher-paying professional jobs like technology or finance— something most white people are not really aware of. Women are also held back by a long history of sexism and the burdens — made increasingly heavy — of making greater contributions to the unpaid care economy and lack of access to crucial healthcare.

How did we get this way?

What happened to America’s middle class, which rose triumphantly in the post-World War II years, buoyed by the GI bill, the victories of labor unions, and programs that gave the great mass of workers and their families health and pension benefits that provided security?

The dual economy didn’t happen overnight, says Temin. The story started just a couple of years after the ’67 Summer of Love. Around 1970, the productivity of workers began to get divided from their wages. Corporate attorney and later Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell galvanized the business community to lobby vigorously for its interests. Johnson’s War on Poverty was replaced by Nixon’s War on Drugs, which sectioned off many members of the low-wage sector, disproportionately black, into prisons. Politicians increasingly influenced by the FTE sector turned from public-spirited universalism to free-market individualism. As money-driven politics accelerated (a phenomenon explained by the Investment Theory of Politics, as Temin explains), leaders of the FTE sector became increasingly emboldened to ignore the needs of members of the low-wage sector, or even to actively work against them.

America’s underlying racism has a continuing distorting impact. A majority of the low-wage sector is white, with blacks and Latinos making up the other part, but politicians learned to talk as if the low-wage sector is mostly black because it allowed them to appeal to racial prejudice, which is useful in maintaining support for the structure of the dual economy — and hurting everyone in the low-wage sector. Temin notes that “the desire to preserve the inferior status of blacks has motivated policies against all members of the low-wage sector.”

Temin points out that the presidential race of 2016 both revealed and amplified the anger of the low-wage sector at this increasing imbalance. Low-wage whites who had been largely invisible in public policy until recently came out of their quiet despair to be heard. Unfortunately, present trends are not only continuing, but also accelerating their problems, freezing the dual economy into place.

What can we do?

We’ve been digging ourselves into a hole for over forty years, but Temin says that we know how to stop digging. If we spent more on domestic rather than military activities, then the middle class would not vanish as quickly. The effects of technological change and globalization could be altered by political actions. We could restore and expand education, shifting resources from policies like mass incarceration to improving the human and social capital of all Americans. We could upgrade infrastructure, forgive mortgage and educational debt in the low-wage sector, reject the notion that private entities should replace democratic government in directing society, and focus on embracing an integrated American population. We could tax not only the income of the rich, but also their capital.

The cost of not doing these things, Temin warns, is incalculably high, and even the rich will end up paying for it:

“Look at the movie, Hidden Figures: It recounts a very dramatic story about three African American women condemned to have a life of not being paid very well teaching in black colleges, and yet their fates changed when they were tapped by NASA to contribute to space exploration. Today we are losing the ability to find people like that. We have a structure that predetermines winners and losers. We are not getting the benefits of all the people who could contribute to the growth of the economy, to advances in medicine or science which could improve the quality of life for everyone — including some of the rich people.”

Along with Thomas Piketty, whose Capital in the Twenty-First Century examines historical and modern inequality, Temin’s book has provided a giant red flag, illustrating a trajectory that will continue to accelerate as long as the 20 percent in the FTE sector are permitted to operate a country within America’s borders solely for themselves at the expense of the majority. Without a robust middle class, America is not only reverting to developing-country status, it is increasingly ripe for serious social turmoil that has not been seen in generations.

A dual economy has separated America from the idea of what most of us thought the country was meant to be.
 

BunchePark

Coli N Calisthenics
Joined
Jun 9, 2012
Messages
4,801
Reputation
1,702
Daps
12,844
Reppin
Broward
fukk nikka needed a bunch of crackers to do a study to realize "truth" if you know and experience truth then why the fukk you need someone to agree or see ya POV to do what my nikka? You aint gone sleep better i promise

Stop seeking a cosign or validation nikka and get to work

Now lemme go back in here with these powder hear crackers who sending kids to 20k a year elementary schools n shyt while we out here shopping at walmart a nikka over it im done ranting on thecoli you nikka dont wanna work or kill shyt you want to cry
 

Paradise50

Superstar
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
8,096
Reputation
1,310
Daps
27,214
this is troubling.

I know I speak about working in mental health a lot, but this study doesn't surprise me at all. Insight from my patients from poorer backgrounds is terrible in comparison to those from better backgrounds. Even if the illness/acuity is the same. Just being exposed to "better" ways of life is better than being confined in the box of being poor. It's kind of why I'm so anti on how a lot of black churches teach because they pimp the story of Jesus to make it seem ok to live such a way because "we all gonna die one day to meet the lord." :scust:.

As a black man I advocate hard for us to become more open minded to our mental health, and what we process. I started to changing the way I think, and look at life after my daughter was born and my life changed significantly for the better. It's so easy to fall into that mental trap :wow:


Also the stressors in itself can damage your frontal lobes which involves emotions and decisions. Hell, the shyt seen in poorer communities would get most residents diagnosed with having PTSD if they ever went to get evaluated. But see, this isn't taught out here so must would never know.


I know I'm rambling and jumping around, but it's a deep topic that isn't taken serious in our community. :mjcry:
 

David_TheMan

Banned
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Messages
36,805
Reputation
-3,574
Daps
82,727
Seems like BS to me.
Poverty doesn't change the brain, it changes a person's priorities though.
A person who is impoverished doesn't have time to spend worrying about things outside of survival, or doesn't have as much time to spend on higher concept thoughts relative to a non impoverished person, this isn't a change in the brain though, just in how the brain is used.

I question studies like this, seems like they are trying to cover for something.
 
Top