How to determine the NBA GOAT

[Kusch]

Okay, so with all of this LeBron being the GOAT talk over MJ I was thinking of ways to peel back the onion and get to the core of this thing.

Here's what I came up with.

You and your opponent select 5 players to create a team. The team with the #1 pick will select #1, then #'s 7, 8, 9, and 10. Team #2 selects #2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 consecutively. So basically, you pick #1 and then your opponent will select his entire starting 5 from the all-time great NBA players. Then you will pick the rest of your squad.

Who are you picking #1?

 

[Rekkapryde]

 

[Taadow]

This is flawed because you pick a team differently than when you pick the best players.

 

[El Coupeacabra]

MJ.

Because we never saw a team dethrone his Bulls.

We know how to beat Bron. We know how to Beat Kobe. We know how to beat Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Shaq etc. All those guys went down at the peak of their powers.

The only one who consistently kicked ass no matter who was across from him was Jordan.

And I don't even like MJ like that. But it is what it is.

 

[Kusch]

I feel like if I pick LeBron first, I stand no chance of an all-time squad with MJ, MJ, KAJ, LB, etc. But if I pick MJ first, I don't even care what combination of players the other team pick. I'm licking my chops to build around MJ with what is left.

 

[Rekkapryde]

I'll always build around a dominant Big Man first. PG second.

They will improve your team much faster than a scorer

 

[TrebleMan]

It's just Jordan.

But I think in this instance I'm going with
#1Shaq/Hakeem
#7Dirk
#8Curry
#9Kobe
#10Kawhi/Durant

Which would stand a chance against any team. Perfect dominant big man + stretch 4 combo. Throw in outside shooters and shot creators everywhere.

But I wouldn't call Shaq/Hakeem the goat, but the ideal piece to build around given these circumstances.

 

[Alexander The Great]

Jordan.

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

I'll always build around a dominant Big Man first. PG second.

They will improve your team much faster than a scorer

The impact Shaq and penny had on the magic in so short a time . Shaq and penny had 5 combined years of NBA experience and already had the magic in the finals

 

[MyApps]

MJ.

Because we never saw a team dethrone his Bulls.

We know how to beat Bron. We know how to Beat Kobe. We know how to beat Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Shaq etc. All those guys went down at the peak of their powers.

The only one who consistently kicked ass no matter who was across from him was Jordan.

And I don't even like MJ like that. But it is what it is.

MJ got rocked quite a few times early in his career. If anything, he lucked out with the league expanding and no peer.

In this top 5 scenario, always go with a big 1st overall because of defensive anchoring and the fact that bigs are closer to the basket for scoring opportunities.

How would these slashers do if they had to score in the paint against Hakeem or prime KAJ or Shaq WITH other top15 players on defense??

 

[010101]

have them all play against one another at their peak
oh wait..................
that's out the question

and so like i always say there is no all time goat just a goat for individual eras/generations

*

 

[DPresidential]

LeBron.

His ability to play defense on any and every position while still having the stamina to be that top offensive option for four quarters is insane.

We don't need me and any other poster giving sensitive disclaimers about not appearing to disrespect Jordan...because we all know who he is.

With that being said, LeBron's durability, considering his size, makes this decision so easy for me.

It's justifiable to say "we haven't seen anyone dethrone his bulls" but let's analyze that -

Are we choosing his team or are we choosing the individual?

We saw what the Cavs were before LeBron and what they were with his addition. LeBron is the quintessential difference maker on the teams he's been on.

Let's also think about what we've seen people say about Kawhi. Considering what the Spurs did against the Rockets without him, I've seen people talk about that makes Kawhi suspect.

I disagree, but it really does highlight what the bulls looked like when a prime Jordan left the team. They weren't great but they were good.

The last compelling point? Jordan is, at this point, equivalent to a mythical beast and I mean that in the most positive way.

LeBron is still human when these conversations are discussed and he's neck and neck with such a giant legendary narrative that is Jordan.

 

[El Coupeacabra]

MJ got rocked quite a few times early in his career. If anything, he lucked out with the league expanding and no peer.

In this top 5 scenario, always go with a big 1st overall because of defensive anchoring and the fact that bigs are closer to the basket for scoring opportunities.

How would these slashers do if they had to score in the paint against Hakeem or prime KAJ or Shaq WITH other top15 players on defense??

He did. But who didn't? Magic is the only one in the conversation who came out the gate and won without taking lumps. But we saw later on he didn't have that insane overdrive to will a team to a championship on his own. (Even though he played out of his mind in '91)

Remember, there is a point of diminishing returns when stacking talent. There's only one basketball, so someone as immensely talented as say...T-Mac, would quickly be marginalized on a team of legends.

So you have to look past scoring (blasphemous on thecoli, I know!!!!) and ask...who is going to play perfect help defense on every possesion? Who has a cerebral understanding of the game and can play dominant basketball without being BALL dominant?

And even with that said...these guys are so damn good, NOBODY is stopping most of them. Who is going to stop Michael Jordan (or shyt, even Allen Iverson?) from getting to the basket? Who is going to deny Charles Barkley post position? Keep Dirk from fading away?

Who is going to stay in front of David Thompson or get put in McHale's torture chamber and stop him...or dare I say...stop LeBron driving to the hoop even?

All time offense beats all time defense every time. The guys at the top of the list are laregly indefensible.

 

[El Coupeacabra]

It's justifiable to say "we haven't seen anyone dethrone his bulls" but let's analyze that -

Are we choosing his team or are we choosing the individual?

First. Let me say off top that I repsect your decision.

Second. We are choosing both. We have to stop MJ as an individual player YES, but basketball is still 5 on 5. So no matter what he's going to have 4 teammates to pass the ball to...and within that environment we have no idea how to beat an MJ led team.

Early in his career his teams were simply out-talented. Then the Pistons had to flat out physically attack the man.

After that...we don't know WHAT his weakness is

Do you let him go off and try to stop everybody else? Portland tried and failed.

Do you try to match his scoring output and star power and hope for the best? Phoenix tried and failed.

Do you stop MJ at all costs and whatever else happens happens? Seattle tried and he ate them up without his usual ridiculous finals scoring output.

Do you play your game MJ be damned? Attack his teams weakness (the interior) and try to make him make up for it? Utah got 2 cracks at it and BOTH times the man basically refused to be beaten.

So what do you do????

 

[Johnny Kilroy]

MJ.

Because we never saw a team dethrone his Bulls.

We know how to beat Bron. We know how to Beat Kobe. We know how to beat Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Shaq etc. All those guys went down at the peak of their powers.

The only one who consistently kicked ass no matter who was across from him was Jordan.

And I don't even like MJ like that. But it is what it is.

Breh, Jordan is at worst #2, and that's still fukking amazing, but please don't underestimate the greatness of his Bulls teams complimenting him and his lack of competition aiding him.

Put this in perspective: Jordan retired and his team went to the ECF. LeBron's "Super Team" is 4-23 in 3 years when he sits.

The best team Jordan ever beat was Shaq and Penny when they were in their 4th and 3rd years in the league respectively. Then they split up. LeBron beat a 73-9 team after being down 3-1.