How will History look back on the OKC Thunder

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

He did kinda help them get to that Finals though. Not sure what playoff performances as lead dog have to do with what he would have done as 3rd option. He played that role pretty well for the most part prior to that and besides he was 23 at the time of the trade, it's not like he was 30 shytting the bed like that. All that said, his greatest value would have been as a trade piece for a big. Now OKC is in a position where they have neither that 3rd scorer nor that big and limited means of addressing these issues before Durant and Westbrook are free agents.

Not to mention they didn't have to trade him when they did. They could have waited a year and then tried to figure it out.

Figure what out?

It was highly unlikely they were going to get more than a: 20-point-caliber scorer, a lottery-pick player, two first-round picks and a second-round pick package down the road. They tried trading Harden for Beal and were unsuccessful; they tried trading Harden for Klay and were unsuccessful. Yall need to stop aggrandizing his value, when he wasn't viewed like that across the league. This is not to mention that Harden wasn't happy in that role anyway (as given by his contract demand and locker room hoopla), and felt that he should be the guy. That situation had the potential to turn ugly through that season if he didn't get the touches he felt he deserved (which he was already complaining about), lowering his trade value even more.

That team was NEVER gonna be big enough for the three of them, ball-logically and financially.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

And that's terrible coaching.

Nah, this is one of the very few things that Brooks got right.

Harden would still get more minutes than Roberson/*insert defensive wing, but he'd be used off the bench to keep the scoring/offense at a constant by leading the second unit (Roberson would provide more of a defensive balance to the starting lineup - you can't exactly play Roberson with the second unit when he doesn't provide much offense) and then Harden would be gradually worked into the 'starting rotation' to play with KD/Westbrook throughout the game. Similar to what Ginobili has provided the Spurs over the last decade.

 

[DoubleJ13]

Every time the Thunder get brought up it just reminds me that 99.9% of the Coli doesn't know much about the Thunder or don't know what they want from the Thunder

 

[Lakerman0834]

Every time the Thunder get brought up it just reminds me that 99.9% of the Coli doesn't know much about the Thunder or don't know what they want from the Thunder

i bet you were one of them fans saying the harden trade was a good one right?

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I can't believe that after seeing how they went out in 2013. Tony Allen harassed KD and they needed Kevin Martin to step up as that 3rd scorer but he couldnt. They clearly missed Harden's agressiveness.

Actually when Westbrook went down in that Rocket series, Martin was more or less the de facto #2 option. During the regular season Martin was the 3rd perimeter scorer when Westbrook/KD were healthy and they had a 60-22 record:

better record than with Harden from the previous season - 47-19
better offensive rating (#1 in the league) than with Harden from the previous season
better defensive rating than with Harden from the previous season
more points per game than with Harden from the previous season

If Westbrook didn't get injured, they would have made a second-consecutive appearance in the WCF and could've realistically beaten the Spurs again. All without Harden.

 

[DoubleJ13]

i bet you were one of them fans saying the harden trade was a good one right?

I don't think I called it a good trade. But I also didn't get all up in arms over it like it was terrible & was about to set everything back or something. It was what it was.

 

[954UAlreadyknow]

Brooks will be looked at as an awful coach that couldn't win with a talented roster because he had absolutely no system to maximize KD/Russ strengths.

this is the biggest flaw to me when I watch them play

 

[Brozay]

OKC just made a move to acquire Dion fukking Waiters ...

PLEASE dont tell me Harden wouldnt be useful for them

 

[Lefty Gunz]

This era's early 90's Trailblazers

 

[Microfracture]

Actually when Westbrook went down in that Rocket series, Martin was more or less the de facto #2 option. During the regular season Martin was the 3rd perimeter scorer when Westbrook/KD were healthy and they had a 60-22 record:

better record than with Harden from the previous season - 47-19
better offensive rating (#1 in the league) than with Harden from the previous season
better defensive rating than with Harden from the previous season
more points per game than with Harden from the previous season

If Westbrook didn't get injured, they would have made a second-consecutive appearance in the WCF and could've realistically beaten the Spurs again. All without Harden.

Forgot about Russy going out. 2012 was the first year the Thunder put it together so their record was only going to improve with another year under their belt together. I can't attribute much of that to Martin's impact, but rather the continued development of KD/Russ/Serge.

They wouldn't be trading for bench scoring if they didn't feel like there was a hole there. I've said my piece on this...I'm not buying losing Harden as a positive when their contingency plan was Kevin Martin starting at SG and Thabo off the bench.

 

[duckbutta]

I don't see how getting rid of Harden was a terrible idea. James Harden that we see would not be the same mvp James Harden we have today. There just simply isn't enough basketballs to go around to have 3 MVP caliber ball-dominant wing players on the same team all play at a MVP level.

Their problem has been injuries, head coaching and they've just faced better coached teams and better teams in general. You Give Greg Popovich the OKC Thunder team that's healthy and they win no less than 2 rings imo.

Why do people keep bringing this up?

There are a million ways to get all 3 guys at least 35 minutes and break them into lineups where each one can be the 1, 2, or 3 option...

Hell just start two of the three and let Harden come in when you bring the other one out and right there you got about 25 minutes of him being the second scoring option...

Rest KD and Westbrook and you got another 7 - 10 minutes of him being the primary option...

32 - 35 minutes with Harden at the first or second scoring option...

The fact that people think this could not have happened is a testament to how sorry of a coach josh brooks is...

IF Pop...or Carlisle...or even Doc Rivers had 3 of the top 15 scorers in basketball would anyone be saying "nah it's to hard it won't work"

shyt Carlisle is making Dirk and Monta work and they are two of the most useless players in the league when they don't have the basketball in their hands...

 

[FTBS]

Figure what out?

It was highly unlikely they were going to get more than a: 20-point-caliber scorer, a lottery-pick player, two first-round picks and a second-round pick package down the road. They tried trading Harden for Beal and were unsuccessful; they tried trading Harden for Klay and were unsuccessful. Yall need to stop aggrandizing his value, when he wasn't viewed like that across the league. This is not to mention that Harden wasn't happy in that role anyway (as given by his contract demand and locker room hoopla), and felt that he should be the guy. That situation had the potential to turn ugly through that season if he didn't get the touches he felt he deserved (which he was already complaining about), lowering his trade value even more.

That team was NEVER gonna be big enough for the three of them, ball-logically and financially.

Figure out what they could do with him or what they could get for him aka the same thing I have said multiple times in this thread.

A team in the league didn't hesitate to give him a max deal coming off a shytty Finals with nothing but 6th man on his resume. There will always be a taker for a young talented player. If that 20 ppg scorer isn't a post player and isn't gonna be there for more than a year it really isn't worth it.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Forgot about Russy going out. 2012 was the first year the Thunder put it together so their record was only going to improve with another year under their belt together. I can't attribute much of that to Martin's impact, but rather the continued development of KD/Russ/Serge.

Exactly. Which is why the would've have been any better with Harden (instead of Martin) if they were all healthy. What Harden provided for them was replaceable.

They wouldn't be trading for bench scoring if they didn't feel like there was a hole there.

Please don't tell me you're serious with this?

I'm not buying losing Harden as a positive when their contingency plan was Kevin Martin starting at SG and Thabo off the bench.

Their contingency plan as you put it was only put into action because Martin came at an affordable price, providing the same scoring-output as Harden would've provided.

Did you watch ANY Thunder games that season? Martin NEVER started one game for them during the regular season. He came off the bench. He played the 6th man role, just as if Harden was still there.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Figure out what they could do with him or what they could get for him aka the same thing I have said multiple times in this thread.

And as I said they weren't going to get more for him than what they received from the Rockets. There wasn't much to figure out - they tried trading for another wing piece but didn't have any luck, so this was the second-best option.

A team in the league didn't hesitate to give him a max deal coming off a shytty Finals with nothing but 6th man on his resume.

Because that team NEEDED to take a chance on a wing player to mold into franchise player. If the Rockets had two players of a Westbrook/KD-caliber on their roster, on their salaries would they be out there moving pieces trying to sign Harden to a max deal? Of course not. OKC received a 20-point-caliber scorer, a lottery-pick player, two first-round picks and a second-round pick for a '6th man' - they weren't going to get anything that exceeded that value with a S&T in the following season.

Teams sign players to max contracts, that haven't proven anything in the league everyday b.

There will always be a taker for a young talented player. If that 20 ppg scorer isn't a post player and isn't gonna be there for more than a year it really isn't worth it.

20 ppg-caliber post players don't grow on trees and it's HIGHLY unlikely that they would've stumbled upon one when it came time to trade him.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Why do people keep bringing this up?

There are a million ways to get all 3 guys at least 35 minutes and break them into lineups where each one can be the 1, 2, or 3 option...

Hell just start two of the three and let Harden come in when you bring the other one out and right there you got about 25 minutes of him being the second scoring option...

Rest KD and Westbrook and you got another 7 - 10 minutes of him being the primary option...

32 - 35 minutes with Harden at the first or second scoring option...

The fact that people think this could not have happened is a testament to how sorry of a coach josh brooks is...

IF Pop...or Carlisle...or even Doc Rivers had 3 of the top 15 scorers in basketball would anyone be saying "nah it's to hard it won't work"

shyt Carlisle is making Dirk and Monta work and they are two of the most useless players in the league when they don't have the basketball in their hands...

None of this shyt makes sense.