How will History look back on the OKC Thunder

[AlbertPullhoez]

The Spurs couldn't do nothing with Harden in the 2012 WCF. He killed us that series, if not for him San Antonio is going to the Finals

OKC promptly trades him for what ended up as Steven Adams and the Spurs proceed to go to back to back Finals and getting a chip along with beating OKC en route to said championship

Dumbasses hoed themselves out of a title cause they cheap ass crackers

Oh well fukk em we ball

 

[Trojan 24]

I see the usual suspects trying to deflect. Trading Harden was an iffy move at best, but that wasn't the biggest problem. The biggest problem was getting a shytty return on a young up and coming player who just played on the Olympic Team. Who also is locked in for atleast 4-5 years .

The better move would have been to extend Harden, let him play that last year on the Rookie Scale and then see what he could have been moved for. Imagine them moving him to the Magic at the end of the year for their 2nd pick and Vuci Mane.

Russy
Dipo
Durant
Ibaka
Vucci Mane

Woulda ran the league

 

[FTBS]

Not necessarily from performance, but from entering restricted free agent. territory. He wouldn't net two first-round picks, a 20 ppg scorer and a second-round pick, when teams would bargain down the Thunder as they'd no longer be in the driver's seat. They were already starting to lose what power they had over teams prior to trading Harden.

Yes they did, they were always going to trade him. Harden wanted max money and more of a role, and a team like Houston were willing to give him that. So yes the value of assets does come into the equation, they're the most important thing - they're the only thing in the grand scheme of things.

Harden was always going to leave.


If Westbrook wouldn't have been injured there is the STRONGEST possibility they would have gone to the Finals again. #1 record in the Western conference, #1 offense, top 5 defense all without Harden. With or without Harden over the past two seasons they still would've failed to win a Championship because of injuries.


They traded him because they wanted to move on and cut the inevitability of the situation (he was always going to leave) in half and start building for the future. Why run the risk of may be getting a comparable haul when they had a package that was more than enough for Harden all ready there for them? Don't you realize that teams wouldn't have given anywhere near the assets that Houston gave in an S&T. Plus there's the risk that Harden could've signed an offer-sheet that OKC wouldn't have matched, and they would've been left with nothing. We saw what happened with Parsons in the summer.


I don't disagree with that at all, point is the package they got was about as good as it was gonna get - they could have had McLemore and if they had a coach they could utilize all these players - folk would have a different take on things. Regardless no amount of assets they got in return either then or when Harden was going to be a RFA would have won them a title. We can't possibly say what they received in the Harden trade was bad, when they were looking like arguably the best team in the league and had a great chance of making the Finals again, all without him.

Already addressed their haul numerous times. Not gonna keep repeating myself.

They still have a better shot with Harden either way and maybe Westbrook doesn't get hurt in 2013, that was a pretty random freak injury. Actually making the Finals >>>>>>>>>> great chance and strong possibility

What part of he had no option to leave on his own aren't you accepting breh? Unless he was gonna take the risk with that qualifying offer (which wouldn't have even been on the table until the next season) he was stuck and even then I'm pretty sure they could have gotten something for him.

 

[FTBS]

Who's to say they wouldn't have beaten the Spurs in the WCF again when they were a more dominant team, if Westbrook didn't go down?

Who's to say they would have? Who is to say they don't make a run with KD and Harden? We have know way of knowing either way so it's a moot point.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

They still have a better shot with Harden either way and maybe Westbrook doesn't get hurt in 2013, that was a pretty random freak injury..

Which is why you can't say that the injury maybe doesn't occur. We're working on what actually happened.

Actually making the Finals >>>>>>>>>> great chance and strong possibility.

Even if Westbrook doesn't get injured, they'd still have a have a strong chance, they wouldn't be automatically be in the Finals playing a Spurs team that had a season to gameplan and grow (SA were a better team in 2012/2013 than they were in 2011/2012). Plus let's not forget a great amount of luck went OKC's way in that series.

What part of he had no option to leave on his own aren't you accepting breh? .

What part of he was always going to leave aren't YOU accepting?

Initially he did, but when he started wanting more money that's where he lost whatever say he had in the matter. Point is, he was always going to leave, he was already complaining about the amount of touches he was getting AND he wanted MAX money - something that OKC couldn't provide for him.

Unless he was gonna take the risk with that qualifying offer (which wouldn't have even been on the table until the next season) he was stuck and even then I'm pretty sure they could have gotten something for him.

What risk is there with him taking a qualifying offer? He was gonna get paid regardless of what happened. If they left it to the next season, they wouldn't have received a better or equal package. Teams wouldn't depart with that many assets, especially teams that were looking to rebuild. And as I said for the hundredth time the WORST possible outcome would have been him signing an offer sheet from another team, leaving OKC with nothing.

 

[tremonthustler1]

Half the people who wanted Harden to stay wanted Westbrook to leave

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I see the usual suspects trying to deflect.

There's nothing to deflect - there's the group that understands how shyt works and the group that doesn't.

Trading Harden was an iffy move at best, but that wasn't the biggest problem.

It wasn't an iffy move, they move had to be done.

The biggest problem was getting a shytty return on a young up and coming player who just played on the Olympic Team. Who also is locked in for atleast 4-5 years .

Harden was ALWAYS going to be a 17/18ppg scorer for OKC, not this player who has an output of 25-27ppg and is the #1 playmaker for Houston. He could only provide so much impact/production for the Thunder. A 20 ppg-caliber scorer, a lottery-pick player, two first-round picks and a second-round pick is not a shytty return.

The better move would have been to extend Harden, let him play that last year on the Rookie Scale and then see what he could have been moved for.

Give some realistic examples, not some ambiguous take on what they could have received. What makes you think teams would give up three picks and two starting-potential players for Harden when he was a RFA and they could sign him outright without giving up a thing?

Imagine them moving him to the Magic at the end of the year for their 2nd pick and Vuci Mane.

Russy
Dipo
Durant
Ibaka
Vucci Mane

Woulda ran the league

THIS IS THE PROBLEM. Magic would never give up Vucevic when they could just sign him as a RFA.

 

[richtree]

Its Brooks. His inability to implement a cohesive offensive system or run even the simplest plays like KD/Russ pnr (which would be unstoppable) consistently has stunted this squad. Him turning a beast of a man like Ibaka into African Donnell Marshall is just pathetic. And also his refusal to develop young players like Lamb, Jones, etc is also the downfall

Very accurate. Surprised he's been the head coach out there for so long. I remember when OKC got those picks like Lamb and Jones they were supposed to become an integral part of the team ..

 

[Trojan 24]

There's nothing to deflect - there's the group that understands how shyt works and the group that doesn't.

It wasn't an iffy move, they move had to be done.

Harden was ALWAYS going to be a 17/18ppg scorer for OKC, not this player who has an output of 25-27ppg and is the #1 playmaker for Houston. He could only provide so much impact/production for the Thunder. A 20 ppg-caliber scorer, a lottery-pick player, two first-round picks and a second-round pick is not a shytty return.

Give some realistic examples, not some ambiguous take on what they could have received. What makes you think teams would give up three picks and two starting-potential players for Harden when he was a RFA and they could sign him outright without giving up a thing?



THIS IS THE PROBLEM. Magic would never give up Vucevic when they could just sign him as a RFA.

Sign who? Harden? That's why the Thunder extend him at the Max, then trade him at the years end. Then he's locked in

 

[FTBS]

Which is why you can't say that the injury maybe doesn't occur. We're working on what actually happened.

Even if Westbrook doesn't get injured, they'd still have a have a strong chance, they wouldn't be automatically be in the Finals playing a Spurs team that had a season to gameplan and grow (SA were a better team in 2012/2013 than they were in 2011/2012). Plus let's not forget a great amount of luck went OKC's way in that series.

What part of he was always going to leave aren't YOU accepting?

Initially he did, but when he started wanting more money that's where he lost whatever say he had in the matter. Point is, he was always going to leave, he was already complaining about the amount of touches he was getting AND he wanted MAX money - something that OKC couldn't provide for him.



What risk is there with him taking a qualifying offer? He was gonna get paid regardless of what happened. If they left it to the next season, they wouldn't have received a better or equal package. Teams wouldn't depart with that many assets, especially teams that were looking to rebuild. And as I said for the hundredth time the WORST possible outcome would have been him signing an offer sheet from another team, leaving OKC with nothing.

It's a hypothetical situation. We can't limit the discussion to what actually happened in a hypothetical. I addressed both scenarios in the post you quoted anyway.

Luck is involved in a lot of series. That doesn't mean you get rid of major pieces when you have all the cards without getting something you need in return.

The risk is getting hurt. There is a reason that superior players with even more guarantees and greater endorsement income didn't take the qualifying offer. OKC could have given him max money, they chose not to and that was of course the biggest problem. If he was willing to take the qualifying offer and say "fukk you" to a championship contender offering him the max, for a lesser max than more power to him but I highly doubt it.

 

[Trojan 24]

If Russy comes to the show, I'll concede that this was the greatest trade of all time

 

[nieman]

I really hope KD and Russ dip just to spite their Front Office.

incompetent FO's shouldn't be rewarded like that.

How is their FO incompetent? What more do they need? Not a damn thing. The ONLY thing they need to do is acknowledge that Westbrook is the alpha male, instead of insisting that it's Durant.

There's no way the Houston Harden works with Durant/Westbrook. Kevin Martin was a better fit for their dynamic scoring, and now they have Jackson & Waiters to do the role that Harden assumed.

 

[Absolut da poet ®]

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

The risk is getting hurt. There is a reason that superior players with even more guarantees and greater endorsement income didn't take the qualifying offer. OKC could have given him max money, they chose not to and that was of course the biggest problem..

And this is the biggest problem that dudes can't understand. You don't give THREE perimeter players max money.

If he was willing to take the qualifying offer and say "fukk you" to a championship contender offering him the max, for a lesser max than more power to him but I highly doubt it.

He wanted more money than OKC were willing to give him. There was already friction between him and the FO, talks broke down between them and what each party wanted, they would have gone into the following offseason with Harden potentially signing an offer sheet of a $80m/5-year deal, which OKC weren't going to come close to (they offered $54m over four years) and he'd be gone. Yeah they could have done a S&T, but you don't run the risk of possibly losing him for nothing if he took the Chandler Parsons route.

Can you imagine how much shyt OKC"s front office would have got if they ended up losing him for nothing?

He wanted MORE money and he wanted MORE of a role, he wanted to be the star.

 

[Auger]

How is their FO incompetent? What more do they need? Not a damn thing. The ONLY thing they need to do is acknowledge that Westbrook is the alpha male, instead of insisting that it's Durant.

There's no way the Houston Harden works with Durant/Westbrook. Kevin Martin was a better fit for their dynamic scoring, and now they have Jackson & Waiters to do the role that Harden assumed.

I wasn't strictly referring to Harden

They have to fire scott brooks