How will History look back on the OKC Thunder

pimpineasy

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Brooks has consistently been one of the five worst coaches in the league throughout his OKC tenure, so you have to pin a significant amount of blame on him.

On the other hand, I don't know how you can't ultimately say the Harden trade wasn't the main reason they failed. It's virtually impossible to organically assemble a team with three of the best 10 and four of the best 25 players in the league in the salary cap era--you have to draft perfectly, which they did, let alone keep them together past their rookie contracts. They were also gifted this opportunity by the league with the duplicate 5-year extensions for Russ and KD, and Harden willing to forgo that 5th year and sign for 4/$60 or so. And they blow it up over... what? A few mil a year?

You simply cannot put the financial hit of the luxury tax/wasted Perkins amnesty money ahead of a literally once-in-a-generation collection of talent. It's nothing short of a disgrace to the NBA, to the game of basketball, and everything that sports should represent and stand for.

:manny:Frankly, they deserve to lose Russ and KD if you ask me. They did them dirty.

YUP AGREE 100%

NOT ONLY THAT they were blessed with these players in their utmost prime with no major injuries just minboggling to think they will not have won a ring
 
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Dude you are like the grandmaster of straw man arguments...:russ:
The irony:skip:

Keep telling us how Ginobili has been the #2 option for SA all these years.
You bring up the spurs "not paying 3 perimeter players max money"...but the spurs don't pay anybody outside of Tim Duncan max money:russ:...and they paid him the max what...once? If you are going to bring up teams not paying 3 players...bring up GS who might have to pay 3 players max or near max (curry next contract, klay, draymond)...Bring up the wizards paying 3 players the max or near max (Beal, Wall, KD...Beal, Wall, Gortat/Nene...Wall, KD, Goratat/Nene)...Bring up the cavs paying 3 guys the max or close to it (James, Kyrie, Love)...but instead you bring up the one team that only plays transcendent once in a generation players the max:russ:...why?
This is what you initially said -

"IF Pop...or Carlisle...or even Doc Rivers had 3 of the top 15 scorers in basketball would anyone be saying "nah it's to hard it won't work"

You brought up how Pop (ya'know the Spurs coach?) could handle juggling the offensive loads of three of the top 15 scorers in basketball. I then replied with "The Spurs wouldn't pay three perimeter players max money". So you brought up the Spurs, and I replied with a Spurs statement. Spurs=Spurs, yes? How did you not see what I was replying to when I actually broke your post down into different parts and specifically addressed each point. If you're gonna have a hard time following YOUR OWN posts, than I guess you should hover over your screen name on the right hand side and go all the way down to 'Log Out'.

You say "Harden is going to always be the third option? Really? So when KD and Harden are on the floor together and Westbrook is on the bench, Harden is the 3rd option? When Westbrook and Harden are on the floor and KD is on the becnh Harden is the third option? When both are on the bench Harden is the 3rd option? How about when Westbrook got hurt Harden would be the 3rd option? When KD got hurt Harden would be the 3rd option? Or are you telling me that Harden can only play when KD and Durant are in the game?

By saying that he's always going to be the third option - I mean he's always going to be behind Westbrook and Durant when it comes to TOTAL offensive workloads. Of course if one of Westbrook or Durant (or both) are not on the court and he is, he'll be the second or first option on the floor. This doesn't even need explaining - nikka what is you in the fifth grade?

When you say a player is the third option for a team, it generally means they have the third highest offensive workload or they're the third most important offensive player - no one takes it as if every minute on the court they're the third option.

This shyt is rudimentary. I'm beginning to think you're just trolling at this point.

You say "they won't reach their full potential". Uh...so fukking what?
It matters because they'll all be on max money. What you see now where Harden is, he wouldn't be the same player if he was still in OKC.
Miami didn't "reach it's full potential"with Bosh rebounding and PIP numbers dipping year to year...but they still got 4 finals appearances and 2 rings out of it?
You bird-brain muhfukka, the Heat had two wing players and one front court player all making max money. There's a balance there, you think if they all had three wing players on max money they would have had the success they had? Of course not. Same reason the Boston big three worked - two wing players and one frontcourt player.

Three wing players on max money is a recipe for disaster.

And what is their "potential" anyway? It seems like the closes they came to "reaching their potential" is when they last played together in the finals...cause none have been back since...Harden hasn't even been out of the 1st round yet:russ:

Reaching their potential as players. They're all better than they were in 2011/2012. Why can't you comprehend the most basic of things?
How is Carlisle comparison relevant? Do you not watch the Mavericks play...of course not you to busy in here telling me obvious stuff like San Antonio wouldn't pay 3 perimeter players the max.:russ:

You're pretty stupid breh. Seriously. I've seen 70-80% of Mavs games this season.
The point is that Carlisle has come up with an offense system that allows him to have 2 guys in that are only effective with the ball in their hands...so how on earth could OKC not do it and just have one guy come off the bench...oh wait right this is where you tell me "Harden wouldn't come off the bench" and "Harden wanted his own team."

:merchant:

Breh. Your English teacher lost. I've already said 1000 times that the issue wasn't them not being able to play together (no one said this shyt in the first place). Of course they could play together (yeah they wouldn't all reached their full potentials AS INDIVIDUALS), but they could still fit together. And again, they never traded Harden because he didn't fit - it was purely financial, not what was happening on court. Why have you brought this up again when NOBODY in here is arguing that them playing together wouldn't have worked?

You say money was the issue. An issue for who? OKC? How? They sell out damn near every home game. They turn a profit EVERY fukkING YEAR. The owner bought the team for around 350 million...and how much are the Thunder worth now? Not wanting to go over the tax isn't a money issue, it's a cheapness issue.
There's this thing called the salary cap, I don't know if you've heard of it or not?
If you are the Pacers or Bobcats who routinely lose money every year, then the cap matters...but a team who's franchise worth has at least doubled in the last 7 years and turns a profit every year on top of that? And they won't pay the tax for 1 more year? Even funnier, with the way the salary cap rose, they could have just done a few things differently with their roster (Perkins) and maybe kept all 3 without paying the tax at all. And if money is an issue how are they functioning now with Waiters pushing them at the cap? And weren't they kicking tires on trading for Brook Lopez:russ:...


What the fukk do you mean how are they functioning with Waiters pushing them at the cap? :what:


They need an established 5 to provide front court scoring, they could do a lot worse than Lopez.

I didn't reply to your thread about manu because after sifting through all the trash you typed the first go round I had better things to do than sift through it again. I am sure this thread is going to go the exact same way.

You blatantly LIED in that thread, and I provided facts and figures to prove what you said was wrong. Dudes was laughing at you for bullshyttin and then you go ghost.
 
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What you dudes fail to realize is that coaching and a lack of an offensive 5 are holding them back from reaching their potential as a 'team', Harden wasn't going to change that.

:heh:
 

Draje

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Why do people keep bringing this up?

There are a million ways to get all 3 guys at least 35 minutes and break them into lineups where each one can be the 1, 2, or 3 option...

Hell just start two of the three and let Harden come in when you bring the other one out and right there you got about 25 minutes of him being the second scoring option...

Rest KD and Westbrook and you got another 7 - 10 minutes of him being the primary option...

32 - 35 minutes with Harden at the first or second scoring option...

The fact that people think this could not have happened is a testament to how sorry of a coach josh brooks is...

IF Pop...or Carlisle...or even Doc Rivers had 3 of the top 15 scorers in basketball would anyone be saying "nah it's to hard it won't work"

shyt Carlisle is making Dirk and Monta work and they are two of the most useless players in the league when they don't have the basketball in their hands...

Dirk has a Steph Curry level of respect when it comes to spacing the floor and creating lames for other players and Monta is a much improved off-ball mover.
 

Greenstrings

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It's not fair at all.

Harden's production/impact was NEVER going to warrant max money on a team where 70% and upwards of their total possessions/touches were through two perimeter-based players. Harden's role on that team can be replaced with a fraction of the cost.
You're either underestimating Harden's skillset or ignoring it. Which of the players they've tried replaced him with were elite ball handlers that get to the line at a high clip, finished at the rim better than 90% of guards whilst providing spacing and regularly being the difference maker in a game?

We complain that they're not dynamic and tend to fall into a predictable two man game in particular down the stretch. whilst forgetting this wasn't the case when they had Harden.
 

seemorecizzy

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i really dont think okc thought harden was THIS good of a player
i know i didn't (especially after seeing him choke in the playoffs) and i know i wasn't the only one:yeshrug:

when had dropped 40 something in his debut with the rockets i was like:dwillhuh:

they lost jeff green and harden over perkins:snoop:

this cant be life
 
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You're either underestimating Harden's skillset or ignoring it. Which of the players they've tried replaced him with were elite ball handlers that get to the line at a high clip, finished at the rim better than 90% of guards whilst providing spacing and regularly being the difference maker in a game?
None of them, but as a collective, Maynor/Jackson and K-Mart provided that in the following season. Not exactly to a T - but they didn't lose a step and with the natural progression of the team - they had the best offense and a top 5 defense in the league. It also allowed Durant to take on more playmaking duties which helped his game grow.
We complain that they're not dynamic and tend to fall into a predictable two man game in particular down the stretch. whilst forgetting this wasn't the case when they had Harden.
Actually it was, they've always had problems late-in-games with the ball stopping. It's not a big of a problem as most make it out to be, but the ISO-centric offense was always there in one form or another. In fact the ball moved a whole lot more after Harden left, because the offensive load was more spread out -

2011/2012 (Harden's last season) - last in the league in assists - 18.5 per game
2012/2013 - 21st in the league in assists - 21.4 per game
2013/2014 - 13th in the league in assists - 21.9 per game
 

FTBS

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Better to be working on that glaring need than have no salary cap at all to fix their weaknesses, and have teams expose it season in, season out.

Because the effectiveness of 2012/2013 Harden would be quelled in the playoffs. It wouldn't be enough to get them through a defensive team like Memphis.

No contradictions on my part. What is it you seem to have an issue with?

You should because they were a better team than the previous season, all they would have needed K-Mart to do is knock down open shots, which he was fully capable of doing. Only reason they don't go on and beat SA, is if the Spurs had more luck on their side and their improvement from the previous season was greater than OKC's.

See now this is disingenuous.

They traded for a 20 ppg scorer, a lottery-pick player, two first-round picks and a second-round pick. The potential of that package was enough for Harden, what they turned out to be doesn't come into it. What does Martin being a rental have to do with things? If we abide by that law, then so was Harden. They only had both of them for ONE season. Plus that TE from the initial trade could have turned into Gasol. They more than got enough in return for Harden, unfortunately for them (at this stage) luck of drafting the right player and coaching (utilizing these players) didn't go their way with what assets they attained from the trade.

It wasn't worth the risk of getting a lesser amount or LITERALLY losing him for nothing. We can go in circles about this point all day, but the point is they took the safest option. :manny:

How are they working on that need? With KD and Russ and Ibaka what cap room do they have? His effectiveness might have been quelled or he may have played well like he did against SA the year before...we don't know.

I clearly pointed to the contradiction and I thank you for cutting it out. :myman:

Plenty of teams have had great ratings and appeared to be one thing in the regular season and flamed out/got exposed in the playoffs.

I addressed the rest numerous times already and you keep ignoring what I say and ask and spouting the same specious points :yeshrug:. :laff: at "coaching not going their way" when they are the ones keeping the coach.
 

Danie84

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A Beard away from the chip:troll:

...low-key, I feel its the Ghost of Supersonic what's stopping them from being GOAT:mjcry:
 

Maluma

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You guys kill me with this shyt. :mjlol:

They're starting Andre Roberson at the 2 and you're telling me getting rid of Harden wasn't a bad idea. Obviously his numbers wouldn't be 27/7/6 like they are now, but Durant and Westbrook's numbers would be a little lower too.

This is karma for stealing the team from Seattle and another black eye to Stern.


not even a thunder fan but you're delusional if you think anyone who matters gives a fukk about stealing a team from that shythole of a city.
 
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How are they working on that need? With KD and Russ and Ibaka what cap room do they have? His effectiveness might have been quelled or he may have played well like he did against SA the year before...we don't know.
They have assets to get a trade done (Perkins, Lamb, Jackson, PJ3) and there's still a month before the deadline.
I clearly pointed to the contradiction and I thank you for cutting it out. :myman:
There's a BIG difference between highlighting why this team would fall at the first hurdle without their second most important player and highlighting how an excess of perimeter 'max' (keyword, keyword) personnel can hurt a team. They're both different pictures. That ain't on some nas shyt.
Plenty of teams have had great ratings and appeared to be one thing in the regular season and flamed out/got exposed in the playoffs.
Now you're deflecting.
I addressed the rest numerous times already and you keep ignoring what I say and ask and spouting the same specious points :yeshrug:. .
I'm not ignoring what you're saying, it seems like you have a hard time comprehending that Harden wasn't that important to their success as a team and ignorant to situation of them not going deeper in the playoffs (the REAL reason) because of injuries to Westbrook and Ibaka. This is not even getting into the fact you're conveniently disregarding that a trade for picks/equal production players works on intrinsic value, not from what the draft picks/players turn out to be.
:yeshrug:. :laff: at "coaching not going their way" when they are the ones keeping the coach.
I was referring more to the players as a unit, rather than the organization's backing of Brooks, which is half the reason that the picks/players aren't closer to touching their ceiling.
 

FTBS

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They have assets to get a trade done (Perkins, Lamb, Jackson, PJ3) and there's still a month before the deadline.

There's a BIG difference between highlighting why this team would fall at the first hurdle without their second most important player and highlighting how an excess of perimeter 'max' (keyword, keyword) personnel can hurt a team. They're both different pictures. That ain't on some nas shyt.

Now you're deflecting.

I'm not ignoring what you're saying, it seems like you have a hard time comprehending that Harden wasn't that important to their success as a team and ignorant to situation of them not going deeper in the playoffs (the REAL reason) because of injuries to Westbrook and Ibaka. This is not even getting into the fact you're conveniently disregarding that a trade for picks/equal production players works on intrinsic value, not from what the draft picks/players turn out to be.

I was referring more to the players as a unit, rather than the organization's backing of Brooks, which is half the reason that the picks/players aren't closer to touching their ceiling.

They had limited options for Harden but Kendrick Perkins and Jeremy Lamb are gonna pay dividends? :laff: You are just arguing just to argue at this point huh?

That excess got them to the Finals, we can't just ignore this. We can't just act like having Harden doesn't give them a better shot against Memphis or SA or to start this season.

No deflection just fact. We have seen teams with all kinds of great ratings fall flat come playoff time so no matter how you slice it great ratings =/= getting to the Finals let alone greater. Injuries happen and once again having a player like Harden only mitigates that.

:comeon: at Harden not being that important. He wasn't their MVP but having a 3rd option that could do all that he could was certainly a key component to them getting to the Finals. His subpar play in said Finals was a key reason they lost.

When you trade a key piece from a championship contender over $4 mil a year before you have to the shyt better work, period. And so far it has not.

Everything we've discussed has been in regards to the FO and their decisions/moves.
 
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