How Would You Rank These Presidents In Terms Of Public Speaking/Oratory?

[King Kreole]

How do you reconcile supporting Trump and thinkers such as Malcolm X, Cornel West, etc when those individuals probably think Trump is racist and don't support him??

If don't have a problem with black people supporting the Green Party, like Cornel West is doing, or even abstaining from voting like Killer Mike suggested. Again, my concern is with seeing a diversity of political opinions and options on the table. Breaking the Democratic stranglehold on the black community is a necessary step in that direction. I prefer Trump to Clinton not because I trust the goodness of Donald's heart, but because I believe his policies would provide the economically and racially marginalized with the leg up they desperately need, and I think his foreign policy position is the more morally and practically justifiable. I would like to think serious thinkers on this topic would be able to look past the shiny lights of Democratic identity politics to understand that white supremacy and racial marginalization has been a bipartisan effort, as Donald Trump alluded to last night. I don't see how voting for the status quo candidate promising literally a continuation of this politico-economic order would do anything to alleviate the deep rooted problems at play here.

In Trump's speech last night, he also said "The Democratic Party has taken the votes of African-Americans for granted. They’ve just assumed they’ll get your support and done nothing in return for it. It’s time to give the Democrats some competition for these votes, and it’s time to rebuild the inner cities of America – and to reject the failed leadership of a rigged political system." That's a pretty Malcolm-esque, revolutionary statement. Don't get me wrong, Donald Trump is no Malcolm X, and his love affair with the armed wing of America's white supremacist task force is evidence of that, but for the first time since 1968 we're seeing a Republican make an open play for the black vote and addressing systemic issues; namely the economic, communal, and criminal disparity. The Democrat's response of "...well...the audience in the room was too white " is typically asinine. As if Trump didn't know the speech was going to be broadcast on all the major networks to millions of people all across the country. As if the people who need to hear that message the most are the black people already living with those realities every single day. I think it was actually more powerful to deliver that speech in front of a white audience. Those are the people who need to hear it. But yet again, we see the Democrats completely deflect from the content of the speech to highlight materially useless aspects. It's all they have.

The entire basis of the Democratic appeal to the black community is that they're the good whites and Republicans are the bad whites. I don't buy into that. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the paternalistic manner with which the Democratic party visualizes and treats the black community is not going to engender a sense of self-sufficiency or infuse prosperous values within the black community. Black people need to either vote based on their material interests, or not vote at all. I don't see how amnesty or free-trade are pro-black policies. In fact, I struggle to see where anything Clinton has proposed or is likely to do would alleviate the black condition. I can see easily see where they would harm though, which is why it's especially sad to see her garner 91% of the black vote. No Clinton supporter has even attempted to justify their candidate and party's stance on these issues, they just spit back "...yeah but Trump is a racist". I believe that black people need to stop buying into the White Democratic Saviour mentality that has been peddled by the Democrats and start closing the borders of the black community, like every other prosperous minority community does. We don't see candidates going into Arab communities and putting on keffiyehs, we don't see them going into Asian communities and putting on kimonos. But because black people have been so politically mistreated and ignored for much of US history, all Democrats have to do is come on The Arsenio Hall Show and play a sax solo and we're hooked, even as that same candidate goes on to institute the most damaging policies to the black community in generations.

Self-sufficiency should be the primary goal for the black community, because time and time again throughout history, we've seen that regardless of political affiliation, white America will do little to uproot and overturn white supremacy.

 

[Dave24]

If don't have a problem with black people supporting the Green Party, like Cornel West is doing, or even abstaining from voting like Killer Mike suggested. Again, my concern is with seeing a diversity of political opinions and options on the table. Breaking the Democratic stranglehold on the black community is a necessary step in that direction. I prefer Trump to Clinton not because I trust the goodness of Donald's heart, but because I believe his policies would provide the economically and racially marginalized with the leg up they desperately need, and I think his foreign policy position is the more morally and practically justifiable. I would like to think serious thinkers on this topic would be able to look past the shiny lights of Democratic identity politics to understand that white supremacy and racial marginalization has been a bipartisan effort, as Donald Trump alluded to last night. I don't see how voting for the status quo candidate promising literally a continuation of this politico-economic order would do anything to alleviate the deep rooted problems at play here.

In Trump's speech last night, he also said "The Democratic Party has taken the votes of African-Americans for granted. They’ve just assumed they’ll get your support and done nothing in return for it. It’s time to give the Democrats some competition for these votes, and it’s time to rebuild the inner cities of America – and to reject the failed leadership of a rigged political system." That's a pretty Malcolm-esque, revolutionary statement. Don't get me wrong, Donald Trump is no Malcolm X, and his love affair with the armed wing of America's white supremacist task force is evidence of that, but for the first time since 1968 we're seeing a Republican make an open play for the black vote and addressing systemic issues; namely the economic, communal, and criminal disparity. The Democrat's response of "...well...the audience in the room was too white " is typically asinine. As if Trump didn't know the speech was going to be broadcast on all the major networks to millions of people all across the country. As if the people who need to hear that message the most are the black people already living with those realities every single day. I think it was actually more powerful to deliver that speech in front of a white audience. Those are the people who need to hear it. But yet again, we see the Democrats completely deflect from the content of the speech to highlight materially useless aspects. It's all they have.

The entire basis of the Democratic appeal to the black community is that they're the good whites and Republicans are the bad whites. I don't buy into that. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the paternalistic manner with which the Democratic party visualizes and treats the black community is not going to engender a sense of self-sufficiency or infuse prosperous values within the black community. Black people need to either vote based on their material interests, or not vote at all. I don't see how amnesty or free-trade are pro-black policies. In fact, I struggle to see where anything Clinton has proposed or is likely to do would alleviate the black condition. I can see easily see where they would harm though, which is why it's especially sad to see her garner 91% of the black vote. No Clinton supporter has even attempted to justify their candidate and party's stance on these issues, they just spit back "...yeah but Trump is a racist". I believe that black people need to stop buying into the White Democratic Saviour mentality that has been peddled by the Democrats and start closing the borders of the black community, like every other prosperous minority community does. We don't see candidates going into Arab communities and putting on keffiyehs, we don't see them going into Asian communities and putting on kimonos. But because black people have been so politically mistreated and ignored for much of US history, all Democrats have to do is come on The Arsenio Hall Show and play a sax solo and we're hooked, even as that same candidate goes on to institute the most damaging policies to the black community in generations.

Self-sufficiency should be the primary goal for the black community, because time and time again throughout history, we've seen that regardless of political affiliation, white America will do little to uproot and overturn white supremacy.

I agree with all of that man, amazing post!

I remember when Trump was talking about improving the economic conditions of black people at the Republican National Convention but the whites in the audience didn't seem too enthused when he talked about that. Whites do need to hear that message but sadly most of Trump's white supporters are probably racist. I agree with most of his policies and think they can help black people. Democrats do take blacks for granted and I am glad Trump mentioned that, you never heard a Republican being so direct in condemning Democrats for taking blacks for granted.

Even with black self sufficiency, look what happened to Black Wall Street in the past. White supremacy won't allow black community as a whole to be successful; they will be too threatened by it I feel. Also, Dr. Dre was arrested and he did nothing wrong. He is worth over 700 million dollars. Even if you are rich in this country you have to deal with that crap.

How would you respond to someone asking you why are you voting for Trump and how will he help black people? I heard some people say you are a sell out if you vote for Trump. I don't know how to respond to that but I honestly feel his policies could help black people. I don't know how to articulate that message well for them to understand where I'm coming from.


Also, what are your fav. books that Cornel West, Bell Hooks, Adolph Reed, Franz Fanan, Thomas Sowell, and James Baldwin have written.

Finally, if Malcolm X was alive do you think he would support Donald Trump or agree with any of his stances? I know Louis Farrakhan agrees with some of the things Trump has mentioned. I don't want people to think I am a c00n/sellout for supporting him. I know a lot of his white supporters are racist but you vote for the candidate and not their supporters. Some white supporters of Hillary Clinton are also racist.

EDIT: What did you think of Trump and the Central 5 Situation in New York, accusations of him discriminating against blacks in the 1970s regarding housing. I get why blacks thinks he might be racist because of those things. What is your take on it? Also referring to blacks as "the blacks".

 

[King Kreole]

How would you respond to someone asking you why are you voting for Trump and how will he help black people? I heard some people say you are a sell out if you vote for Trump. I don't know how to respond to that but I honestly feel his policies could help black people. I don't know how to articulate that message well for them to understand where I'm coming from.

I would just say I believe economic growth in the black community is the most important path to black prosperity, so Trump's message and policy proposals to bringing back the industries and sectors where black people have disproportionately trained to work in is a good thing. I would mention the atrocious, crippling rates of unemployment within the black community, particularly amongst black youth. I would say that as a people at the bottom of the social totem pole, populist policies would disproportionately benefit the black community. I would say that Trump's plan to reinvigorate inner cities, where black people disproportionately reside, and fix the infrastructure that poor and black people disproportionately rely on will also help black people. Most importantly, I would say that the economic trade policies like TPP are most threatening to those at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, because they're the ones who bear the brunt of a globalized economic order in which corporations run wild. I would also point to Hillary's foreign policy philosophy and record and ask how these costly interventionist wars are supposed to be benefitting black people. I would ask them who they believe is a better option in this election, and why.

You can't really do much about the people saying any black person voting for Trump is a sellout. I just try to explain my point of view, and engage in good faith discussion. If they're belligerent, I just bid them good day or troll them. A lot of (black) people are emotionally invested in the "Democrat good, Republican bad" construct, many of them for understandable reason, so it's often difficult to break through that. But I don't assume every black person voting for Hillary Clinton is a sellout. Although I've yet to see or hear it, i'm sure some just have different opinions about the way forward for the black community. Just be confident in your viewpoints, and be open to change. Most people are sealed off and come in with totalizing, preconceived notions about this and that, ready to tar and feather anyone who dares disagree. It's better to have an inquisitive, open disposition imo. Makes life more interesting.

Also, what are your fav. books that Cornel West, Bell Hooks, Adolph Reed, Franz Fanan, Thomas Sowell, and James Baldwin have written.

The Autobiography of Malcolm X is one of the most important books i've ever read, and I think i've probably watched every speech he's given that still available. Baldwin's Notes of a Native Son, and The Fire Next Time are his most celebrated works, i've read the former and read passages of the latter. The Fanon books I've read are Wretched of the Earth and Black Skin, White Masks. I haven't read any of Sowell's books, but he has a lot of material available on youtube. Reed's scholarship i've come to know through various interviews and articles. Same goes for hooks and West.

Finally, if Malcolm X was alive do you think he would support Donald Trump or agree with any of his stances? I know Louis Farrakhan agrees with some of the things Trump has mentioned. I don't want people to think I am a c00n/sellout for supporting him. I know a lot of his white supporters are racist but you vote for the candidate and not their supporters. Some white supporters of Hillary Clinton are also racist.

I would presume to know what Malcolm would think about this election. He was undergoing a philosophical evolution when he was assassinated, and in many ways the current political landscape has changed dramatically since his time. But in many ways it's stayed the same, especially regarding the sentiments he expressed in the video I posted. I don't feel comfortable saying he would support Trump, but I feel comfortable saying he wouldn't be supporting Clinton. He didn't even support Kennedy. I'm sure he would support black self-sufficiency though.

I wouldn't call myself a follower or supporter of Farrakhan, but I did see this video of his assessment of Hillary Clinton, and I pretty much agree with all of it.


My advice would be to not worry so much about the irrelevant, inconsequential opinions of the little minded and to have courage in your convictions. If you believe Trump is the better candidate, don't let peer pressure or people calling you c00n or Uncle Tom sway you. Same goes for those who believe Clinton is the better candidate. You're absolutely right that you vote for the candidate and not their supporters, and you're absolutely right that Hillary Clinton has racist supporters in her camp. Herself and her husband, who said of Obama during the '08 campaign "A few years ago, this guy would have been carrying our bags”, for starters. But this is a fact that has been very lost on anti-Trump advocates in this election. I've said before that I find very little in common personally with most of Trump's supporters, and I would probably be more culturally comfortable at a Clinton rally than a Trump rally, but the "who I'd rather have a beer with" method of voting is an absolute joke and makes a mockery of the democratic process. Unfortunately it seems to be the dominant method nowadays. A lot of people are very desperate to turn politics into a contest of personality and superficiality because that's what we've been conditioned to do, but it only serves to distract from the material results on the ground.

EDIT: What did you think of Trump and the Central 5 Situation in New York, accusations of him discriminating against blacks in the 1970s regarding housing. I get why blacks thinks he might be racist because of those things. What is your take on it? Also referring to blacks as "the blacks".

Both of those situations were undoubtedly racist. I've always said that Trump is most likely a racist. But this is America we're talking about. Like 95% of the population is racist. This is a racist country. Clinton is also undoubtedly a racist. People use that term like it's some rare personality defect when in reality it's the default mode of thinking in America. If you're determining your to vote based on who is or is not a racist, you're going to be sitting at home come November. So in lieu of that criteria, I move to other issues that would impact the areas I'm concerned about. I find it absurd to go "I can't support efforts that will attempt to boost the employment number in predominantly African-American sectors because Trump wrote that racist op-ed 27 years ago" or "I can't support a pullback of America's neoimperalistic global footprint because Trump didn't rent to low income African-Americans 40 years ago." It becomes even more absurd when you turn around and pull out every excuse in the book to vindicate Hillary Clinton's racist comments in that same period. As I said before, I can respect not voting, but I can't respect voting for Clinton.

 

[Dave24]

I would just say I believe economic growth in the black community is the most important path to black prosperity, so Trump's message and policy proposals to bringing back the industries and sectors where black people have disproportionately trained to work in is a good thing. I would mention the atrocious, crippling rates of unemployment within the black community, particularly amongst black youth. I would say that as a people at the bottom of the social totem pole, populist policies would disproportionately benefit the black community. I would say that Trump's plan to reinvigorate inner cities, where black people disproportionately reside, and fix the infrastructure that poor and black people disproportionately rely on will also help black people. Most importantly, I would say that the economic trade policies like TPP are most threatening to those at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, because they're the ones who bear the brunt of a globalized economic order in which corporations run wild. I would also point to Hillary's foreign policy philosophy and record and ask how these costly interventionist wars are supposed to be benefitting black people. I would ask them who they believe is a better option in this election, and why.

You can't really do much about the people saying any black person voting for Trump is a sellout. I just try to explain my point of view, and engage in good faith discussion. If they're belligerent, I just bid them good day or troll them. A lot of (black) people are emotionally invested in the "Democrat good, Republican bad" construct, many of them for understandable reason, so it's often difficult to break through that. But I don't assume every black person voting for Hillary Clinton is a sellout. Although I've yet to see or hear it, i'm sure some just have different opinions about the way forward for the black community. Just be confident in your viewpoints, and be open to change. Most people are sealed off and come in with totalizing, preconceived notions about this and that, ready to tar and feather anyone who dares disagree. It's better to have an inquisitive, open disposition imo. Makes life more interesting.


The Autobiography of Malcolm X is one of the most important books i've ever read, and I think i've probably watched every speech he's given that still available. Baldwin's Notes of a Native Son, and The Fire Next Time are his most celebrated works, i've read the former and read passages of the latter. The Fanon books I've read are Wretched of the Earth and Black Skin, White Masks. I haven't read any of Sowell's books, but he has a lot of material available on youtube. Reed's scholarship i've come to know through various interviews and articles. Same goes for hooks and West.

I would presume to know what Malcolm would think about this election. He was undergoing a philosophical evolution when he was assassinated, and in many ways the current political landscape has changed dramatically since his time. But in many ways it's stayed the same, especially regarding the sentiments he expressed in the video I posted. I don't feel comfortable saying he would support Trump, but I feel comfortable saying he wouldn't be supporting Clinton. He didn't even support Kennedy. I'm sure he would support black self-sufficiency though.

I wouldn't call myself a follower or supporter of Farrakhan, but I did see this video of his assessment of Hillary Clinton, and I pretty much agree with all of it.


My advice would be to not worry so much about the irrelevant, inconsequential opinions of the little minded and to have courage in your convictions. If you believe Trump is the better candidate, don't let peer pressure or people calling you c00n or Uncle Tom sway you. Same goes for those who believe Clinton is the better candidate. You're absolutely right that you vote for the candidate and not their supporters, and you're absolutely right that Hillary Clinton has racist supporters in her camp. Herself and her husband, who said of Obama during the '08 campaign "A few years ago, this guy would have been carrying our bags”, for starters. But this is a fact that has been very lost on anti-Trump advocates in this election. I've said before that I find very little in common personally with most of Trump's supporters, and I would probably be more culturally comfortable at a Clinton rally than a Trump rally, but the "who I'd rather have a beer with" method of voting is an absolute joke and makes a mockery of the democratic process. Unfortunately it seems to be the dominant method nowadays. A lot of people are very desperate to turn politics into a contest of personality and superficiality because that's what we've been conditioned to do, but it only serves to distract from the material results on the ground.


Both of those situations were undoubtedly racist. I've always said that Trump is most likely a racist. But this is America we're talking about. Like 95% of the population is racist. This is a racist country. Clinton is also undoubtedly a racist. People use that term like it's some rare personality defect when in reality it's the default mode of thinking in America. If you're determining your to vote based on who is or is not a racist, you're going to be sitting at home come November. So in lieu of that criteria, I move to other issues that would impact the areas I'm concerned about. I find it absurd to go "I can't support efforts that will attempt to boost the employment number in predominantly African-American sectors because Trump wrote that racist op-ed 27 years ago" or "I can't support a pullback of America's neoimperalistic global footprint because Trump didn't rent to low income African-Americans 40 years ago." It becomes even more absurd when you turn around and pull out every excuse in the book to vindicate Hillary Clinton's racist comments in that same period. As I said before, I can respect not voting, but I can't respect voting for Clinton.

Thanks, another great post!

1. Also, I forgot to add many black people think that Trump's "Make America Great Again" slogan is racist and he is implying "Make America White Again". What are your thoughts on that?

2. What are your thoughts on Trump saying we need more police on the streets and being the law and order candidate and not really speaking on disproportionate force police use on blacks as opposed to whites?

3. Earlier you mentioned that you believe that America will not have, or deserves, a particularly peaceful ending. Could you elaborate on that? If it isn't a peaceful ending and it ends up in violence are you worried about lives black and white being affected by a violent end?

4. I remember Michelle Obama saying at the Democratic National Convention that she feels America is the greatest country in the world. Do you agree with her? I am not well traveled at all so I honestly don't know.

 

[Broke Wave]

No, I've said two things about Reaganomics in this thread. The first was that it was the most transformational economic changes in the post-war era. The second was that Trump's best case scenario would be his Reaganomics infused Trumponomics unleashing prosperity in America. Reaganomics alone applied today would most likely not do much for American prosperity because we're living in a post-Reaganomics world. There is no 70% tax rate to reduce. Government spending and the deficit is obviously in a different state than it was in the 1970s and 1980s. The monetary situation has obviously changed since the 1970s and 1980s. Trump's populist policies of infrastructure spending, reinvestment in inner cities and other left behind communities, decreasing illegal immigration, and bringing back outsourced jobs are critical elements of his economic policies and they've been ones he's been talking about since his campaign started.

I have never even attempted to hide the fact that I'm a capitalist, so I really have no idea what charade you're talking about. The Laffer curve is a basic economic principle that can be used in favour of increasing or decreasing taxation rates. As I've said before, if taxation rates are too low they should be increased. It's about finding the optimal rate that maximizes and incentivizes prosperity.

I don't know what you call expansion of the social safety net, but I would consider it heavy investment in infrastructure spending so that the people who most need access to resources can obtain them, revitalizing transportation so those in geographically disadvantageous locations can reach pockets of prosperity, investing in urban communities that have been left behind by the current economic regime, decreasing the amount of people who are illegally residing in the country so that legal residents and citizens would have a bigger slice of the economic and government service pie, and stopping the outflow of capital and job loss that has disproportionately targeted marginalized communities. I don't think just throwing welfare dollars at black people is a legitimate expansion of the social safety net, as it does nothing to affect the underlying structural issues causing much the economic racial disparity.

Ok before I address this wall of trxt, can you please show me a specific policy proposal from Trumps official economic platform where he says he is going to reinvest in infastructure and inner cities.

Not direct Quotes from trump where he briefly mentions somethinng, I want to see a policy proposal.

 

[Dave24]

The Autobiography of Malcolm X is one of the most important books i've ever read, and I think i've probably watched every speech he's given that still available. Baldwin's Notes of a Native Son, and The Fire Next Time are his most celebrated works, i've read the former and read passages of the latter. The Fanon books I've read are Wretched of the Earth and Black Skin, White Masks. I haven't read any of Sowell's books, but he has a lot of material available on youtube. Reed's scholarship i've come to know through various interviews and articles. Same goes for hooks and West.

1. What would you say are Malcolm's and MLK's greatest speeches? Also, how do you rank those two as pubic speakers compared to Reagan and Kennedy?

2. What did you think was better the Malcolm X movie with Denzel or Malcolm's autobiography?

 

[King Kreole]

1. Also, I forgot to add many black people think that Trump's "Make America Great Again" slogan is racist and he is implying "Make America White Again". What are your thoughts on that?

I think "Make America Great Again" is perhaps one of the most interesting and profound political slogans in recent history. The obvious tone being struck is one of nostalgia, which is one of the most powerful sentiments in human psychology. The people gleaning a racist subtext are not wrong at all, because there are many people for whom America's previous "greatness" was predicated on white supremacy's dominance over a black underclass. That's a historical fact. But I think the slogan is interesting because of its emancipatory potential. Whichever way you cut it, it's arguing for a change to the status quo. Make America Great Again. It's a call to action. It's a rejection of complacency. The Democratic response of "America is already great" is the polar opposite. It's perhaps equally racist and insensitive, but it subverts any threat to that status quo. It engenders complacency. There was a whole thread in TLR about that response.

I think Make America Great Again is a dogwhistle to white people feeling their standard of living slip away for the first time in generations, but it's vague enough that it can be construed as an opportunity to pick and choose the positive aspects of American history that we want to reinvigorate. I'm as cynical as anyone else about the ugly truth of America's history, but it's a fact that the majority of people in America are not content with the current direction of the country, and they're not all white. There are good reasons for that discontent, and bad reasons for that discontent. Ultimately, I prefer the path that feeds into that desire for change, not the path that stifles it.

This video, particularly 3:06 onward, is perhaps the most efficacious projection of the slogan.



It's of course historically incomplete, but that doesn't really matter. It's a political slogan, not a history textbook.

2. What are your thoughts on Trump saying we need more police on the streets and being the law and order candidate and not really speaking on disproportionate force police use on blacks as opposed to whites?

I think it's fukked up and wrong. I'm no anarchist, I think good policing is a positive, but the idea of just drowning these marginalized communities with more (bad) policing is at best misguided and at worst inhumane. I think the most effective solution to the criminality is opportunity. The vast majority of criminals are not committing crimes because they love it, they're doing it out of necessity. If you invest in these communities and provide the residents with opportunities for social and economic growth, you'll see the crime decrease in a much more profound and long lasting manner. Trump gets halfway there with the opportunity talk, but his refusal to acknowledged the racial element regarding disproportionate policing is cowardly. I understand it from a political calculation angle, but it is a moral failure on his behalf. I compare it to Nixon's rejection of Coretta Scott King's pleas to help MLK during the 1960 campaign for fear of upsetting the Southern white voters. A moral failure. Especially shameful because Nixon and MLK were personal friends.

3. Earlier you mentioned that you believe that America will not have, or deserves, a particularly peaceful ending. Could you elaborate on that? If it isn't a peaceful ending and it ends up in violence are you worried about lives black and white being affected by a violent end?

I just meant that a country unwilling to reconcile with its past in an honest manner is beckoning an uncontrollable reckoning. It's not just America's history with Black people either, the original sin was actually what happened to the Native American population, who get even less recognition that African-Americans. It's about America's history with the poor. It's about America's history with women. It's about America's history in foreign nations. To bring it back to Malcolm, it's about chickens coming home to roost. America is a very young nation with an incredibly active history, but she's been remarkably placid for quite some time. Perhaps she is due for some action.

From this historical perspective, violence is an abstract concept, so no I'm not especially concerned with the lives affected by it. It's like being concerned with the violence of the French Revolution that disrupted lived of the individuals living though it. It's a historical event, so the actual experience is unreachable.

4. I remember Michelle Obama saying at the Democratic National Convention that she feels America is the greatest country in the world. Do you agree with her? I am not well traveled at all so I honestly don't know.

lol no. I'll refer you to the video and thread link in my first point, but no, I do not believe America is the greatest country in the world, in so far as "great country" is a legitimate construct, which it probably isn't.

 

[King Kreole]

dbl

 

[Dave24]

dbl

1. What would you say are Malcolm's and MLK's greatest speeches? Also, how do you rank those two as pubic speakers compared to Reagan and Kennedy?

2. What did you think was better the Malcolm X movie with Denzel or Malcolm's autobiography?

 

[King Kreole]

Ok before I address this wall of trxt, can you please show me a specific policy proposal from Trumps official economic platform where he says he is going to reinvest in infastructure and inner cities.

Not direct Quotes from trump where he briefly mentions somethinng, I want to see a policy proposal.

Trump, like Sanders, is notoriously scant on detail because they're running visionary-style campaigns. They're trying to transform the ideological direction of America from the outside in, not inside out. It's more about identifying problems, setting the agenda, and expanding the realm of what's considered politically possible. He isn't up at night writing white papers. If you're a wonk, you're probably going to be turned off by that. And it's a legitimate criticism. But it's not the campaign style he's running. And I don't think it's one the country is really asking for either. Historical inflection points are rarely won by the people offering up the most detail.

That being said, Trump's main proposal to juice the inner cities is to stop the outflow of capital and jobs resulting from onerous trade deals and open borders. He's mentioned those issues in probably every speech he's given. I also don't think you can find a Trump speech where he hasn't mentioned the decrepit state of America's infrastructure. It's been a cornerstone of his campaign, not something he "briefly mentioned" one time. The communities in question were disproportionately gutted by the current economic order, so Trump's plan to reverse that order should aid those communities. The aim of his proposed tax plan is to make America a place where businesses can grow and thrive, thereby bringing employment. In his economic speech in Detroit he said his plan is to bring back the trillions of dollars from American businesses overseas, proposing a 10% tax on it, and then re-invest the money in states like Michigan. He views trade policies like TPP and NAFTA as American job killers that disproportionately harm these communities, so his proposal to dead them would necessarily be beneficial. He views the current illegal and legal immigration situation as harmful to those in inner cities, so his proposals to deport illegal immigrants and terminate the J-1 visa jobs program for foreign youth in replace it with a resume bank for inner city youth should be beneficial to those communities. He has proposed an infrastructure spending plan of $550 billion over 5 years.

 

[King Kreole]

1. What would you say are Malcolm's and MLK's greatest speeches? Also, how do you rank those two as pubic speakers compared to Reagan and Kennedy?

2. What did you think was better the Malcolm X movie with Denzel or Malcolm's autobiography?

1. Martin and Malcolm are both legendary figures. It's a bit difficult to compare them to Reagan and Kennedy though, because the style and contexts of the speeches were pretty different. As a President, there is a constraint of formality that the orator has to conform within. As I said before, it was Reagan's ability to stretch and expand that constraint that made him such a great orator. But as an activist, particularly from the black community with all its cultural flavour, there is more room to play with. Both MLK and Malcolm came up as orators within the black religious tradition. For MLK it was the Baptist church, which if you've ever gone to Baptist service you'll know their emphasis on oration. Martin's speeches were basically sermons. For Malcolm it was the Nation of Islam, which has produced its own strong history of oration, albeit not as robust as the Baptist's. The reason that oration was such an important tool for these religious men is that the survival of their ideology relied on conversion, often times direct and on the ground. They're basically consecrated salesmen.

Martin is quite possibly the most well regarded orator of the 20th century, so he's in contention for elite status in any ranking. Malcolm is less well known and regarded, but I actually prefer his speeches to Martin's. Martin was the more polished speaker, but Malcolm spit pure, unadulterated truth. MLK was speaking to all people, Malcolm was speaking to black people. It's why MLK gets a federal holiday and a bigass statue on the National Mall.

As for their best speeches, I'm not too familiar with MLK's deep cuts, but he had numerous hits. Obviously the "I have a dream" speech is universally praised. The "mountaintop" speech is immensely powerful, especially in hindsight. His Vietnam War speech is very courageous and very important to understanding the totality of his philosophy. The speech he gave after the Birmingham bombing was short, but heartbreaking. Malcolm's Ballot or the Bullet speech is probably his most well known, but I also really like the 1962 memorial service speech he gave in Los Angeles after Ronald Stokes and other NOI members were killed by the LAPD. His "Message to the Grassroots" speech is pure fire. That speech he gave on police brutality is so profound, especially looking back on it from present day.

2. I like both. The movie was really good, my favourite work from both Spike and Denzel. I guess I'll go with the autobiography though, because it was more thorough.

 

[88m3]

You guys say I'm paid to post here.

 

[Dave24]

1. Martin and Malcolm are both legendary figures. It's a bit difficult to compare them to Reagan and Kennedy though, because the style and contexts of the speeches were pretty different. As a President, there is a constraint of formality that the orator has to conform within. As I said before, it was Reagan's ability to stretch and expand that constraint that made him such a great orator. But as an activist, particularly from the black community with all its cultural flavour, there is more room to play with. Both MLK and Malcolm came up as orators within the black religious tradition. For MLK it was the Baptist church, which if you've ever gone to Baptist service you'll know their emphasis on oration. Martin's speeches were basically sermons. For Malcolm it was the Nation of Islam, which has produced its own strong history of oration, albeit not as robust as the Baptist's. The reason that oration was such an important tool for these religious men is that the survival of their ideology relied on conversion, often times direct and on the ground. They're basically consecrated salesmen.

Martin is quite possibly the most well regarded orator of the 20th century, so he's in contention for elite status in any ranking. Malcolm is less well known and regarded, but I actually prefer his speeches to Martin's. Martin was the more polished speaker, but Malcolm spit pure, unadulterated truth. MLK was speaking to all people, Malcolm was speaking to black people. It's why MLK gets a federal holiday and a bigass statue on the National Mall.

As for their best speeches, I'm not too familiar with MLK's deep cuts, but he had numerous hits. Obviously the "I have a dream" speech is universally praised. The "mountaintop" speech is immensely powerful, especially in hindsight. His Vietnam War speech is very courageous and very important to understanding the totality of his philosophy. The speech he gave after the Birmingham bombing was short, but heartbreaking. Malcolm's Ballot or the Bullet speech is probably his most well known, but I also really like the 1962 memorial service speech he gave in Los Angeles after Ronald Stokes and other NOI members were killed by the LAPD. His "Message to the Grassroots" speech is pure fire. That speech he gave on police brutality is so profound, especially looking back on it from present day.

2. I like both. The movie was really good, my favourite work from both Spike and Denzel. I guess I'll go with the autobiography though, because it was more thorough.

Appreciate it man. I just want to say thank you for answering all of my questions and I hope I didn't bother you by asking so many questions.

1. I was wondering who do you consider the top 20 orators/public speakers of all time? (in order from best to least) This can include US Presidents, civil rights actiivts, people like Churchill, Hitler, etc, etc.

2. How does one become a good public speaker? That is a skill I would like to be good at.

3. I feel stupid/ignorant compared to you. How did you become so intelligent? what books do you read? For example, when I asked you who were the better orators you give these good and detailed answers and I feel if someone were to ask me the same question I wouldn't be able to do it. You seem knoweldgable about all these men and just topics in general. I always thought I knew a good deal about Kennedy and Reagan but you make me feel like I don't really know anything.

 

[King Kreole]

Appreciate it man. I just want to say thank you for answering all of my questions and I hope I didn't bother you by asking so many questions.

haha no problem, i like talking about these issues

1. I was wondering who do you consider the top 20 orators/public speakers of all time? (in order from best to least) This can include US Presidents, civil rights actiivts, people like Churchill, Hitler, etc, etc.

This is such a large question I'd have trouble answering it accurately. Going back in history, you're gonna have the leading Sophists of Ancient Greece and Rome heavily in this discussion. Cicero is of course a name that would have to be in there, as he's probably the most famous orator of the ancient age. Same goes for Pericles, whose funeral oration is one of the most famous speeches of all time. Demosthenes is usually a darkhorse name that appears on these lists. Moving forward in time of course you got Danton, Churchill, Lincoln, Hitler, etc. Figures who arose during times of great turmoil. When order breaks down, a power vacuum is created and then usually filled by charismatic orators. So generally the people who ascend to power and subsequent historical fame are the best orators, because whoever could convince the most amount of people they should be leader ended up being the leaders. Consent of the governed. I might also add some religious figures in there too.

A funny thing is that if you're looking for the best speeches and oration given in current times, you're generally going to be looking at actors, not politicians. Hollywood screenwriters are responsible for penning some of the most moving, effective speeches of this day. The importance of oration has decreased for modern politicians. For example, look at the recent political conventions. The best speakers were non-politicians. Michelle Obama for the DNC, and imo Tom Barrack for the RNC, although Ivanka also gave a better speech than any politician. Most of the actual politicians who spoke at the conventions were pretty bad speakers.

2. How does one become a good public speaker? That is a skill I would like to be good at.

I'm not sure. I don't really do much public speaking. But I think a lot of it has to do with charisma, natural or acquired. Putting people at ease is the best way to loosen them up and make them amenable to whatever you're saying. It is a very clutch skill to have. Sales is a where I would suggest someone looking to hone or utilize their speaking skills should go. Even if you're not comfortable with it initially, putting yourself in situations where you need to use your speaking skills to survive is a great way to sharpen them. It's like learning a language. The best way to do it is to immerse yourself in it.

3. I feel stupid/ignorant compared to you. How did you become so intelligent? what books do you read? For example, when I asked you who were the better orators you give these good and detailed answers and I feel if someone were to ask me the same question I wouldn't be able to do it. You seem knoweldgable about all these men and just topics in general. I always thought I knew a good deal about Kennedy and Reagan but you make me feel like I don't really know anything.

don't say that. Inquisitiveness is the foundation of intelligence, and you seem pretty thirsty for knowledge and opinion. I personally just really respect the Socratic Paradox; "the only thing I know is that I know nothing". The depth of accumulated knowledge is bottomless, so I approach it with humility. You just happened to catch me on some topics I have some level of experience and a deep interest in. There are a ton of things I know next to nothing about. If you put me back in high school math, I would probably have to cheat off the 16 year old next to me . My advice would be to just keep asking people, and yourself, questions...although maybe not of me so much anymore because i'm running out of things to say . That's the approach I take. Most people have a specialized pool of knowledge about some certain topic.

 

[Ohnoits]

Kennedy's would be the inauguration speech (Ask not what your country can do for you), the West Berlin speech (Ich bin ein Berliner), and the space program speech at Rice University (We choose to go to the moon).

Reagan's would be the Brandenburg Gate speech (Tear down this wall), the 1976 RNC concession speech (Shining city on a hill), the A Time For Choosing speech in 1964, the D-Day anniversary speech (the Boys of Pointe Du Hoc) I'm also partial to his Farewell Speech from the Oval Office. They didn't call him The Great Communicator for no reason

My parents hated Reagan. But he did give great speeches.