I just re listened to Urban Legend by TIP

[murksiderock]

Game vs TI is a better match up

They all three in the same box and you could legitimately argue Game is the strongest rapper of the three with the sharpest quality on his resume. We not about to sit here and pretend 50 belong in some entirely different tier...

 

[murksiderock]

Tip got gas cats really skipped over in here:

I'm Serious
Still Ain't Forgave Myself
Dope Boyz
You Ain't Hard

Trap Muzik (certified classic, his best work)
Trap Muzik
Be Easy
No More Talk
24s
Rubber Band Man
I Still Luv You (gotdamn heat)
TI vs TIP
Bezzle
King Of Da South (fuego)
Be Better Than Me
Long Live The Game

Urban Legend (borderline classic, 50/50)
If he left this at the first 10 tracks I'd stamp it, the back 7 quality drops big time...

King
King Back
Front Back
What U Know
Live In The Sky
Why You Wanna
Top Back
I'm Straight

TI vs TIP (entire shyt is weak as fukk)

Paper Trail (nikkas really overrate this record, it's his third best work AT BEST)
...but I'm Illy, What Up What's Haapnin, and Swagga Like Us are fire...

2000s Tip can hold his own with most people. 50 is one of those people...

Like Fif, his work in the 10s is lesser than his earlier work, it ain't his era and most rappers aren't elite outside their era. But Tip's work in the 10s is more significant than Fif's...

Dudes gotta stop acting like Tip ain't have a run where he was Top 5. This wasnt an album cut but its 00s Tip and was fire when it dropped, honestly 2005 was a strong, strong year in hip hop overall:



That was right after Urban Legend dropped, which was a critical and commercial success, Tip was Top 5...

Also right after Urban Legend:



Look, I'm a Tip fan but I'm not one of these guys who has him in a Top 20 or 25. But the homies @thedevilyouknow and @ISO yall can be objective, he wasnt some scrub that dont deserve to be compared to 50, they in the same weight class and in real time they were pretty much seen that way. I spent my teenage years from California to Memphis to VA so I feel like I got a pretty good feel for how people saw these guys, 50 was way more popular for a second than anyone, like how Drake is way more popular than anyone, but it's far from a lock that Drake is the greatest rapper based on quality...

I remember it being like that with eith Fif, we recognized him as the biggest rapper '03, '04, '05, but there was not this feeling that he was the greatest rapper in terms of skill or quality. He was up there but he had a lot of competition and the only place he had a strong advantage was The Machine and popular appeal...

Tip was part of his competition in that era, Tip was definitely seen as in that Top 5 range after Trap Muzik, and he was also popular and all over the TVs and charts too. He wasnt some sideline nobody, stop playing with him lol. Yall can favor 50 and I think it's close either way but if you ain't heard some of these tracks I mentioned you gotta try to spin em with an objective ear...

 

[BlackMajik]

Tip's 2nd verse on "What They Do"

I got the eye of a tiger and the heart of a bear
I'm the king of the jungle, you can follow me there
You can hear it from these nikkas who hardly was there
Or take it from nikkas who fought to make it a star to get here
Several years ago I told myself I solemnly swear
Forever be hard to kill, even harder to scare
One reason why me and other cats is hard to compare
Cause I'm fact, that's fiction, it hardly compares

 

[Cuban Pete]

They all three in the same box and you could legitimately argue Game is the strongest rapper of the three with the sharpest quality on his resume. We not about to sit here and pretend 50 belong in some entirely different tier...

shyt im saying that as a credit to Game really, 50s catalog is subpar even if its 2 classics imo (massacre aged decently) and 50 being involved would bring too many toxic eminem fans to the versuz. Plus 50 dont know how to compete healthily he always wanna take it a step further and shyt smh

Game and TIP makes sense with multiple classic to near classic tapes, most impact made in the early 2000s but not completely irrelevant musically (like 50)
Both claimed king of their respective regions for a while etc. Even their cons are similar, both werent able to start a real movement/clique with all that starpower and both have done some bipolar shyt outside of music.

 

[Cuban Pete]

Tip got gas cats really skipped over in here:

I'm Serious
Still Ain't Forgave Myself
Dope Boyz
You Ain't Hard

Trap Muzik (certified classic, his best work)
Trap Muzik
Be Easy
No More Talk
24s
Rubber Band Man
I Still Luv You (gotdamn heat)
TI vs TIP
Bezzle
King Of Da South (fuego)
Be Better Than Me
Long Live The Game

Urban Legend (borderline classic, 50/50)
If he left this at the first 10 tracks I'd stamp it, the back 7 quality drops big time...

King
King Back
Front Back
What U Know
Live In The Sky
Why You Wanna
Top Back
I'm Straight

TI vs TIP (entire shyt is weak as fukk)

Paper Trail (nikkas really overrate this record, it's his third best work AT BEST)
...but I'm Illy, What Up What's Haapnin, and Swagga Like Us are fire...

2000s Tip can hold his own with most people. 50 is one of those people...

Like Fif, his work in the 10s is lesser than his earlier work, it ain't his era and most rappers aren't elite outside their era. But Tip's work in the 10s is more significant than Fif's...

Dudes gotta stop acting like Tip ain't have a run where he was Top 5. This wasnt an album cut but its 00s Tip and was fire when it dropped, honestly 2005 was a strong, strong year in hip hop overall:



That was right after Urban Legend dropped, which was a critical and commercial success, Tip was Top 5...

Also right after Urban Legend:



Look, I'm a Tip fan but I'm not one of these guys who has him in a Top 20 or 25. But the homies @thedevilyouknow and @ISO yall can be objective, he wasnt some scrub that dont deserve to be compared to 50, they in the same weight class and in real time they were pretty much seen that way. I spent my teenage years from California to Memphis to VA so I feel like I got a pretty good feel for how people saw these guys, 50 was way more popular for a second than anyone, like how Drake is way more popular than anyone, but it's far from a lock that Drake is the greatest rapper based on quality...

I remember it being like that with eith Fif, we recognized him as the biggest rapper '03, '04, '05, but there was not this feeling that he was the greatest rapper in terms of skill or quality. He was up there but he had a lot of competition and the only place he had a strong advantage was The Machine and popular appeal...

Tip was part of his competition in that era, Tip was definitely seen as in that Top 5 range after Trap Muzik, and he was also popular and all over the TVs and charts too. He wasnt some sideline nobody, stop playing with him lol. Yall can favor 50 and I think it's close either way but if you ain't heard some of these tracks I mentioned you gotta try to spin em with an objective ear...

Damn I had to rap along to im a king off rip. Yea tip might have this in the bag curly scared I cant rap along to curtis singles without a certain level of cringe

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

Tip got gas cats really skipped over in here:

I'm Serious
Still Ain't Forgave Myself
Dope Boyz
You Ain't Hard

Trap Muzik (certified classic, his best work)
Trap Muzik
Be Easy
No More Talk
24s
Rubber Band Man
I Still Luv You (gotdamn heat)
TI vs TIP
Bezzle
King Of Da South (fuego)
Be Better Than Me
Long Live The Game

Urban Legend (borderline classic, 50/50)
If he left this at the first 10 tracks I'd stamp it, the back 7 quality drops big time...

King
King Back
Front Back
What U Know
Live In The Sky
Why You Wanna
Top Back
I'm Straight

TI vs TIP (entire shyt is weak as fukk)

Paper Trail (nikkas really overrate this record, it's his third best work AT BEST)
...but I'm Illy, What Up What's Haapnin, and Swagga Like Us are fire...

2000s Tip can hold his own with most people. 50 is one of those people...

Like Fif, his work in the 10s is lesser than his earlier work, it ain't his era and most rappers aren't elite outside their era. But Tip's work in the 10s is more significant than Fif's...

Dudes gotta stop acting like Tip ain't have a run where he was Top 5. This wasnt an album cut but its 00s Tip and was fire when it dropped, honestly 2005 was a strong, strong year in hip hop overall:



That was right after Urban Legend dropped, which was a critical and commercial success, Tip was Top 5...

Also right after Urban Legend:



Look, I'm a Tip fan but I'm not one of these guys who has him in a Top 20 or 25. But the homies @thedevilyouknow and @ISO yall can be objective, he wasnt some scrub that dont deserve to be compared to 50, they in the same weight class and in real time they were pretty much seen that way. I spent my teenage years from California to Memphis to VA so I feel like I got a pretty good feel for how people saw these guys, 50 was way more popular for a second than anyone, like how Drake is way more popular than anyone, but it's far from a lock that Drake is the greatest rapper based on quality...

I remember it being like that with eith Fif, we recognized him as the biggest rapper '03, '04, '05, but there was not this feeling that he was the greatest rapper in terms of skill or quality. He was up there but he had a lot of competition and the only place he had a strong advantage was The Machine and popular appeal...

Tip was part of his competition in that era, Tip was definitely seen as in that Top 5 range after Trap Muzik, and he was also popular and all over the TVs and charts too. He wasnt some sideline nobody, stop playing with him lol. Yall can favor 50 and I think it's close either way but if you ain't heard some of these tracks I mentioned you gotta try to spin em with an objective ear...

Like I said Cliff was steadier Than 50. By the time TI went to jail the second time he lost luster. If you want to say TI mattered longer go ahead but there is no denying TI’s biggest records didn’t have the reach of 50s second tier biggest much less

You think of the 00s you think of Get Or Die Trying. Top was like an upper mid tier guy st his peak. He never hit Wayne levels of popularity

 

[stepbackj34spud]

TI is trash

 

[re'up]

The thing is 50 can't really go further than 2005/2006, T.I can get to the slightly more, but still dated, Paper Trail, with a more modern sound. 50 has the mixtape stuff and his first two. T.I has three solid albums, and group work, misc. stuff.

 

[murksiderock]

Like I said Cliff was steadier Than 50. By the time TI went to jail the second time he lost luster. If you want to say TI mattered longer go ahead but there is no denying TI’s biggest records didn’t have the reach of 50s second tier biggest much less

You think of the 00s you think of Get Or Die Trying. Top was like an upper mid tier guy st his peak. He never hit Wayne levels of popularity

Only thing I disagree with is Tip's best vs Fif's second tier. Fif's second tier ain't all that impressive, and Fif's best work is great but I dont feel like it's an order of magnitude greater than Tip's...

Fif just had The Machine behind him so his work is exalted to a higher degree than it deserves. It was far from bad, but think about it like this---->of all the rappers who had runs like 50 at his very peak, how does Fif compare? He probably has the weakest peak of all of them, the weakest resume of all of them, the weakest skill of all of them, etc...

That shyt matters and besides the nikkas who died his reign at the top was shorter than everybody, he couldnt even sustain it...

There was a time Tip was bigger than Wayne. Nobody was checking for Wayne when Tip dropped Trap Muzik, he was bigger at that time. Wayne had that Sqad Up run that gets overrated and dropped Tha Carter, Tip dropped Urban Legend and at the time both were on Soldier, Tip was a more popular artist...

It's easy to forget because at this point, Wayne has been hotter for so long, his peak run is iconic, etc, so people can forget this but he wasnt always seen as hotter than Tip, I can remember this distinctly. Tip had a great '05 and was riding high off features and Urban Legend, the real takeoff for Wayne began that summer '05 when he released Dedication (Before Disaster), that summer is when nikkas really started checking for Wayne, Dedication and Trap Or Die were in every hood coast to coast as far as I know...

And still you were in peak Tip time, he was not some midtier guy at that point in time. Tip dropped King and ATL around the same time and it added to his star power, he was big in '06, he also fronted Dro who, at the time, was seen as being potentially a star in the making. So in '06 Tip had ATL, King, Young Dro, mad features, this was not some midtier guy...

Meanwhile, Wayne was working and more people started noticing with each drop but he hadn't distanced himself yet, it was really like with every drop, nikkas was like "damn this dude Wayne on some different shyt". He went from Tha Carter to Dedication to Carter II to Dedication 2 in the span of less than two years, when you look back on his peak run and realize this was just the start of it it's a testament to his greatness. But looking back on it also allows cats to revise that history...

In real time Wayne didn't start separating from Tip until TI vs TIP, which was complete garbage. Then he caught the gun case and like you said shyt was pretty much the end of his run. That was '07, not only was Wayne putting out heat after heat, he was dropping MORE work, that's when Wayne started distancing himself from Tip (and alot of other nikkas, probably 50 included)...

2006 on backwards, in real time, Wayne was not universally regarded as greater than other top rappers. We look back on it now and the quality of most of his work at the time shyts on almost everybody, but in the moment he was elevating, not seen as elevated over everybody...

Just a history lesson also for some of the younger cats in here who may not been old enough to really be in the climate at the time lol...

 

[Asicz]

NY nikkas even see wassup.

Great piece of content there.

 

[murksiderock]

Historically Wayne is on a way higher tier than either if these dudes. And while 50 had an iconic peak run, he is not regarded historically as one of the All-Timers. He and TI are both super relevant to their era, and to their city/regions, but they both have a similar historical place on All-Time boards. I guess that's my main point, 50 not playing in some different lane, but the reverse is true also...

 

[Asicz]

Historically Wayne is on a way higher tier than either if these dudes. And while 50 had an iconic peak run, he is not regarded historically as one of the All-Timers. He and TI are both super relevant to their era, and to their city/regions, but they both have a similar historical place on All-Time boards. I guess that's my main point, 50 not playing in some different lane, but the reverse is true also...

Who versuz Lil Wayne?

 

[Buckeye Fever]

I'm bar hoppin' like a mug. Might put this album on when I leave. I forgot how dope it was.

 

[murksiderock]

Who versuz Lil Wayne?

You'd have to put Wayne with other Top 10 guys, guys who were both commercial and critical successes, not nikkas this board throw out as Top 10 who didn't have any large scale popular appeal...

So by definition there's only a handful of people you could line with Wayne, period. I dont think he's the greatest ever but I know manu people do, and he has a case, it ain't like he doesn't. He got the skillset, the popularity, the peak, and most importantly over everything, he got the quality of work to match. So all the guys people debate on the highest level, Nas, Jay, Pac, Big, these are the guys you gotta compare to Wayne. And 5-10 others...

The closest guy in the South would be Rozay and I'm very vocal in my belief that Ross is a Top 20 guy. And it ain't population opinion but you can make the case he's the GOAT South rapper. I dont think I'd make that case but I can form it...

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

Only thing I disagree with is Tip's best vs Fif's second tier. Fif's second tier ain't all that impressive, and Fif's best work is great but I dont feel like it's an order of magnitude greater than Tip's...

Fif just had The Machine behind him so his work is exalted to a higher degree than it deserves. It was far from bad, but think about it like this---->of all the rappers who had runs like 50 at his very peak, how does Fif compare? He probably has the weakest peak of all of them, the weakest resume of all of them, the weakest skill of all of them, etc...

That shyt matters and besides the nikkas who died his reign at the top was shorter than everybody, he couldnt even sustain it...

There was a time Tip was bigger than Wayne. Nobody was checking for Wayne when Tip dropped Trap Muzik, he was bigger at that time. Wayne had that Sqad Up run that gets overrated and dropped Tha Carter, Tip dropped Urban Legend and at the time both were on Soldier, Tip was a more popular artist...

It's easy to forget because at this point, Wayne has been hotter for so long, his peak run is iconic, etc, so people can forget this but he wasnt always seen as hotter than Tip, I can remember this distinctly. Tip had a great '05 and was riding high off features and Urban Legend, the real takeoff for Wayne began that summer '05 when he released Dedication (Before Disaster), that summer is when nikkas really started checking for Wayne, Dedication and Trap Or Die were in every hood coast to coast as far as I know...

And still you were in peak Tip time, he was not some midtier guy at that point in time. Tip dropped King and ATL around the same time and it added to his star power, he was big in '06, he also fronted Dro who, at the time, was seen as being potentially a star in the making. So in '06 Tip had ATL, King, Young Dro, mad features, this was not some midtier guy...

Meanwhile, Wayne was working and more people started noticing with each drop but he hadn't distanced himself yet, it was really like with every drop, nikkas was like "damn this dude Wayne on some different shyt". He went from Tha Carter Dedication to Carter II to Dedication 2 in the span of less than two years, when you look back on his peak run and realize this was just the start of it it's a testament to his greatness. But looking back on it also allows cats to revise that history...

In real time Wayne didn't start separating from Tip until TI vs TIP, which was complete garbage. Then he caught the gun case and like you said shyt was pretty much the end of his run. That was '07, not only was Wayne putting out heat after heat, he was dropping MORE work, that's when Wayne started distancing himself from Tip (and alot of other nikkas, probably 50 included)...

2006 on backwards, in real time, Wayne was not universally regarded as greater than other top rappers. We look back on it now and the quality of most of his work at the time shyts on almost everybody, but in the moment he was elevating, not seen as elevated over everybody...

Just a history lesson also for some of the younger cats in here who may not been old enough to really be in the climate at the time lol...

50 had a machine behind him yet Cliff was the one who was like a gold artist at the time being called The King Of The South on the cover of Vibe over guys who were moving more records. Trap Muzik took forever in a day to go Platinum so let’s not talk about the boost of machines

TI is not some amazing rapper. He never was. He can rap fast He can rap slow but nikkax ain’t running around 20 years after the fact using TI quotes. It’s just not happening. As a rapper him and 50 are in the same bracket but 50 has more wit that plays well for him.

Cliff at his peak was a double platinum artist. Luda was going triple platinum multiple albums but I don’t hear anybody screaming for his respect

I come from the school of...

Platinum/You definitely matter had a song that was ringing off

Double Platinum/The singles from your album really worked and everybody knows your name

Quadruple Platinum & Beyond/A-List nikkaz

Did TI matter? Yes
Did he go Gold first week before? Yes
Was his name as strong as peak 50, Wayne, Snoop or X?

fukk NO

Tip was averaging 27 on a 5th seed. TI held down 2006 but let’s not act like he had a Confessions or Get Rich kind of year.

Never happened in his life. Say what you feel them numbers are them numbers. TI never permeated American culture to the point of omnipotence

I wouldn’t put my life on 5 out of 10 random people across the world knowing who Cliff is

His name never rang bells like Drake, 50 or Wayne so how would that change in a versus battle when they are playing their peak songs?