I just re listened to Urban Legend by TIP

[ISO]

80,000 compared to 50,000 is actually realistically a very sizeable gap lmao

Not really and it’s politics you not taking into account for the sales.

At the end of the day T.I. wasn’t hot in this decade them songs he had was with features and radio play

 

[ABlackMan]

Boosie & Webbie. 04-09 was really a golden era for trap/hood music.

I know it’s called trap now but back then that shyt was rap. Trap is the fake hustler shyt lol then nikkas made HUSTLER MUSIC!!! Helped invent trap but they made hustler music. It ain’t the same

 

[murksiderock]

This started with Tip challenging 50 Cent to a Verzuz.

I think the Get Rich or Die Tryin' soundtrack and The Massacre get slept on. The soundtrack is littered with classic tracks and I don't see how an album with Position of Power, God Gave Me Style, Ryder Music, Ski Mask Way, Baltimore Love Thing is trash. Candy Shop and Just a Lil Bit call them corny or whatever but they were smash hits in that era the first being bigger than any T.I. song. Scott Storch played Just a Lil Bit in his battle against Mannie Fresh and it was well received but let the Coli tell it people don't have nostalgia for these records. I also don't know why people acting like T.I. doesn't have "corny" songs.

The peak run and popularity definitely matter and 50 was so big at his peak arguably the highest popularity peak of any rapper in history that he was bound to fizzle out quicker. Although, I believe that the longevity argument for Tip is overstated to me both were done after 2008. I don't think they underachieved I just feel like it was no way they could stop the "blog" era guys bringing that youth from taking over the game. T.I. was able to extend his career collaborating with the likes of Young Thug, Drake, Iggy, Chris Brown in the 2010's but even then it's not like he's running shyt or moving units. 50 moved onto television and has been successful there as he was as a rapper.

Do I think 50 is greater than Tip? I don't like to get into that because different artists are different writers. 50 was a great storyteller, he was good at giving you those one liners and harsh realities, he was good at writing hooks and melodies a skill many writers lack, and overall he was a pretty prolific writer. He's underrated as a rapper if we're being honest he should be more respected as a writer. I also feel like he has been a more influential artist than Tip. His music is sampled more today by modern artist and more modern artist cite him as an influence and give him props. For T.I., I don't really see that.

T.I.'s catalog isn't that good lol. He's got Trap Muzik and King and then his pop album Paper Trail. It's not like Urban Legend and T.I. vs. Tip were these great albums they were mediocre or like T.I.'s 2010's albums moved the needle in any way.

This is fair...

I dont typically count soundtrack albums when I'm looking at artists, I guess they technically count but in my mind I've always looked at them differently. Get Rich soundtrack was really good though, I remember that. I'll have to respin it to grade it but I dont remember it being bad...

I dont think Massacre was trash but I'm not as high on it as you are, he turned up the sing-rap shyt on there and the vibe if his "harder" songs was not the same as on Get Rich, from an originality and consistency standpoint it's definitely a step down from Get Rich. By the way, I love Just A Little Bit, I'm not one of these guys who think those tracks are garbage. Massacre was good, it just wasnt great, and it isn't honest to hold that record up as the best defense of 50 as an artist...

I dont disagree with most of your other points on Fif except he ain't underrated. Not at all...

Tip has a shyt ton of corny songs and one of my issues in this thread are people naming Tip songs that are very corny in defense of him, when he has so many more better tracks. One of the things I think people sell him short on is his storytelling ability, and his reflection rap is very appealing. Tracks like Still Ain't Forgave Myself, TI vs TIP (the song, not the album), I Still Luv You touch a different emotion than 50 can evoke. Not that these songs should be in the Smithsonian cause that ain't what I'm saying, but some of his best work is in that vein and he's great at it...

Tip's longevity is overstated, the only strong album he dropped in this era was Paperwork which I think is underrated. But I think when people mention his "longevity", it seems like people really mean his ability to remain consistent and relevant for a longer period of time, rather than just dropping awesome work. Which is true, Fif is obviously still relevant but not due to his music which is what the comparison is based on, Tip musically remained relevant for much longer and that's a point in his favor to me...

The influence thing, I think it depends on who you talk to. I'm not in tune with the cats who grew up in this era, so maybe more of them are more influenced by Fif. I think it more depends on where you grew up, alota the Atlanta dudes that have been popular the last five years or so cite Tip as an influence---->though I don't get the impression he had a really wide reach in influence, in that a random youngster from Indiana or Colorado were influenced into rap by TI. I dont really get that with Fif either, his peak was so brief and we were cracking jokes when Kanye was more popular on the same era, just a couple years after 50 was the biggest name in the sport. I think yall tend to exaggerate his influence, he not in the same box as Kanye and Wayne from the same exact era, his influence isn't all that...

None of them have great catalogs, which is why a Versuz would be dope. They are pretty balanced. I think lyrically they both showed promise. TI was a little more unafraid to jump outside his bread and butter and touch political topics and different subgenres in his music, so his artistry is at least equal with 50 who incorporated singing into his style and a distinct pop-rap feel. They the same overall and I just think its disingenuous to downplay one in favor of the other---->both seem to have the same placement, more or less, in their cities. You ask somebody in those cities the greatest NY or ATL rappers, neither are in the Top 5, but maybe right up under that. They are respected and acknowledged at home...

50's peak is definitely a point in his favor but Get Rich isn't that much better than Trap Muzik. I find his peak to be a little overstated, the environment and aura around him played as much into how we talk about Peak 50 as the quality of the music itself, which aside from G-Unit Radio tapes and Get Rich, wasnt that impressive. Higher peak than TI but you can definitely argue TI has the better total body of work, its arguable. And this downplaying of TI as some midtier dude on the 00s is not reality---->Yung Joc was a midtier dude. Chingy was a midtier rapper. Soulja Boy was a midtier rapper. Guys who weren't one hit wonders but weren't special. nikkas ain't giving TI his proper respect to that degree...

 

[Ducktales]

TI seem like a try hard and sometimes corny on social media.. but on some real shyt he was considered the down south Jay Z at one point. Super consistent. Quality music. And he might not be a gangster, but despite all the shyt people have said about TI, he never been scared. Going to CloverLand to see Flip, bearing up Shaka Zulu (Ludacris manager) beefing with Shawty Lo (I know that was never a real beef, but still)and going hand to hand with Floyd. 50 catalog sounds outdated.. sorry and I still listen to 50 old mixtapes. Play this nikka all the time. But still not fukking with TI. Saw them both at a concert last year at a festival. TI blew 50 out the water... pause

 

[murksiderock]

None of TIs albums or hit singles have the same theme, sound or structure which is why his work held up alot better over the years.

Bro TI remade Let's Get Away and Why You Wanna multiple times on every album, the shyt was annoying lol...

Fair points on Tip's artistry besides that, compared to 50's...

I know it’s called trap now but back then that shyt was rap. Trap is the fake hustler shyt lol then nikkas made HUSTLER MUSIC!!! Helped invent trap but they made hustler music. It ain’t the same

100--->trap music originally was just music d-boys listened to, and the rappers who came from a d-boy background embodied that spirit. It wasnt a fukkin whitewashed genre or a particular sound...

 

[ISO]

Nikkas stay saying 50 music is outdated yet his songs stay being flipped and remade

 

[re'up]

After all this, those too might be dead even, in terms of an instagram battle, both made music that I will play, if not until I die, for a really long time, but both have long since to make music I really check for, but TI kept it up longer than 50 did. The last time I even checked for a 50 track was probably 2008 or 2009, while T.I has Paperwork from 2014, that was a solid project.

They both have classics, though I have Trap Muzik higher than Get Rich, obviously doesn't have the commercial impact, but outside of maybe 4 tracks Get Rich has aged horribly, and long been exposed as a very formulaic big budget record. Can you really play "Patiently Waiting", or PIMP, or 21 Questions for anything beyond nostalgia? And the nostalgia I have for that album runs deep. I was in junior year of HS when that dropped. It was by far the most played album of 2003, and I heard those records in every possible situation, from drug deals to hotel trysts with girls, and skipping class to go smoke a blunt. I really lived that album out, Trap Muzik, 500 Degreez too, but the omnipresent one was GRODT, no denying that. I have memories of friends who died the same year playing that together in the car. But, can I turn on Don't Push Me, and not feel it's age? Not really.

Trap Muzik holds up as a piece of cohesive, soulful, work, that can really be played all the way through.

 

[murksiderock]

After all this, those too might be dead even, in terms of an instagram battle, both made music that I will play, if not until I die, for a really long time, but both have long since to make music I really check for, but TI kept it up longer than 50 did. The last time I even checked for a 50 track was probably 2008 or 2009, while T.I has Paperwork from 2014, that was a solid project.

They both have classics, though I have Trap Muzik higher than Get Rich, obviously doesn't have the commercial impact, but outside of maybe 4 tracks Get Rich has aged horribly, and long been exposed as a very formulaic big budget record. Can you really play "Patiently Waiting", or PIMP, or 21 Questions for anything beyond nostalgia? And the nostalgia I have for that album runs deep. I was in junior year of HS when that dropped. It was by far the most played album of 2003, and I heard those records in every possible situation, from drug deals to hotel trysts with girls, and skipping class to go smoke a blunt.

Trap Muzil holds up as a piece of cohesive, soulful, work, that can really be played all the way through.

Trap Muzik opened well, closed well, but the middle third or so was unnecessary. Let's Get Away was good when it dropped but he literally remade that song 100 times on later albums, it's more a nostalgia play for me than anything. Same with Rubber Band Man, it ain't a great song, it's just a fun nostalgia play for it's time...

That said while I'd rank Get Rich higher, I favor Trap Muzik, it is a classic...

 

[re'up]

"Lets Get Away" has some cheesy bars, but the whole feel of it, the hook, beat, and not to mention my own memories make it a classic, but yeah, it's a cliched song. The first verse is a pretty hard listen, "leave semen in they faces", like do we have mention semen? We were 16, 17 trying to live out the lifestyle of a rapper, and we didn't fall too short lol

'Let Me Tell You Something" is another very strong song. And yeah, Rubberband Man and 24's were more about the beats and unique nature of that sound, than masterpieces.

Look What I Got was one of those that had me thinking I was a boss with a couple 28's and T.I talking about bricks. "I sell slopes of snow, I don't fukk with little blow"

I'll probably run all those back before "Back Down", "PIMP", 21 Questions", "If I Can't those are really, really cheesy. That's what this comparison is so close. They are both tied to my nostalgia, but objectively I can say, very flawed artists. That came in a very precise time in my life.

I just played Poor Little, and I was instantly back in a hotel room with a bunch of us smoking blunts, and playing 50 off a Playstation. Like My Style is another one, it's not a good song.

I just ran "Patiently Waiting", Eminem is unlistenable in 2020, with the sound effects and Shady shoutouts, but it's so hollow, "slut with a nice butt to get a nut", and the post 9/11 pandering.

This is 100% unable to transcend 2003.

 

[ISO]

This is fair...

I dont typically count soundtrack albums when I'm looking at artists, I guess they technically count but in my mind I've always looked at them differently. Get Rich soundtrack was really good though, I remember that. I'll have to respin it to grade it but I dont remember it being bad...

I dont think Massacre was trash but I'm not as high on it as you are, he turned up the sing-rap shyt on there and the vibe if his "harder" songs was not the same as on Get Rich, from an originality and consistency standpoint it's definitely a step down from Get Rich. By the way, I love Just A Little Bit, I'm not one of these guys who think those tracks are garbage. Massacre was good, it just wasnt great, and it isn't honest to hold that record up as the best defense of 50 as an artist...

I dont disagree with most of your other points on Fif except he ain't underrated. Not at all...

Tip has a shyt ton of corny songs and one of my issues in this thread are people naming Tip songs that are very corny in defense of him, when he has so many more better tracks. One of the things I think people sell him short on is his storytelling ability, and his reflection rap is very appealing. Tracks like Still Ain't Forgave Myself, TI vs TIP (the song, not the album), I Still Luv You touch a different emotion than 50 can evoke. Not that these songs should be in the Smithsonian cause that ain't what I'm saying, but some of his best work is in that vein and he's great at it...

Tip's longevity is overstated, the only strong album he dropped in this era was Paperwork which I think is underrated. But I think when people mention his "longevity", it seems like people really mean his ability to remain consistent and relevant for a longer period of time, rather than just dropping awesome work. Which is true, Fif is obviously still relevant but not due to his music which is what the comparison is based on, Tip musically remained relevant for much longer and that's a point in his favor to me...

The influence thing, I think it depends on who you talk to. I'm not in tune with the cats who grew up in this era, so maybe more of them are more influenced by Fif. I think it more depends on where you grew up, alota the Atlanta dudes that have been popular the last five years or so cite Tip as an influence---->though I don't get the impression he had a really wide reach in influence, in that a random youngster from Indiana or Colorado were influenced into rap by TI. I dont really get that with Fif either, his peak was so brief and we were cracking jokes when Kanye was more popular on the same era, just a couple years after 50 was the biggest name in the sport. I think yall tend to exaggerate his influence, he not in the same box as Kanye and Wayne from the same exact era, his influence isn't all that...

In the 2010's T.I. had a shyt ton of features and had the Atlantic Records machine behind him. Fif had pivoted to TV that answers the longevity thing to me while T.I. was relevant I guess it's not like he himself was hot or moving the needle it was more of a product of aligning himself with the new school and having that machine behind him to push the single and his fanbase.

For the influence thing I've heard more Atlanta rappers like Thug, Lucci, Gunna bring up Jim Jones before T.I. as far as influence in interviews lol. I haven't heard many guys say T.I. influenced them you're more likely to hear a modern Atlanta rapper say Thug or Gucci or Wayne before Tip. For 50, I know he had a significant influence on newer NY rappers like Pop Smoke and A-Boogie but even going into Chicago, these guys like Herb, Bibby, Keef, Fredo all have cited 50 as a major influence and in particular praise this song.


I mean these is just three 50 Cent flips I've heard in the last year from some of the biggest rappers in the game...




I don't see T.I. getting this love and 50 is the guy who people on here say his music aged "poorly" or is outdated

From person to person it may differ but overall objectively 50 was the bigger and more influential rapper

 

[Theodoresolderbreh]

Trap musik and urban legend would wash 50. And I love 50's music but let's be for real.

 

[SpacelySprockets]

In the 2010's T.I. had a shyt ton of features and had the Atlantic Records machine behind him. Fif had pivoted to TV that answers the longevity thing to me while T.I. was relevant I guess it's not like he himself was hot or moving the needle it was more of a product of aligning himself with the new school and having that machine behind him to push the single and his fanbase.

For the influence thing I've heard more Atlanta rappers like Thug, Lucci, Gunna bring up Jim Jones before T.I. as far as influence in interviews lol. I haven't heard many guys say T.I. influenced them you're more likely to hear a modern Atlanta rapper say Thug or Gucci or Wayne before Tip. For 50, I know he had a significant influence on newer NY rappers like Pop Smoke and A-Boogie but even going into Chicago, these guys like Herb, Bibby, Keef, Fredo all have cited 50 as a major influence and in particular praise this song.


I mean these is just three 50 Cent flips I've heard in the last year from some of the biggest rappers in the game...




I don't see T.I. getting this love and 50 is the guy who people on here say his music aged "poorly" or is outdated

From person to person it may differ but overall objectively 50 was the bigger and more influential rapper

 

[ISO]

20 years old remaking 50 songs but his music outdated and aged poorly

 

[FunkDoc1112]

TI can't touch 50's absolute BEST songs but his entire catalogue runs way deeper than Fif's.

 

[SpacelySprockets]

TI can't touch 50's absolute BEST songs but his entire catalogue runs way deeper than Fif's.

Subjective if you're counting POTD and the countless mixtapes 50s dropped

But all of that is irrelevant in a 20 song format, DMX went toe to toe with Snoop who had a 6 year head start on him and was relevant long after he fell off as well