I renounce my Jay-Z stan card.

Drew Wonder

Drew Wonder

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Yuffie said:
I like wtt a lot but it just wasn't connecting with me. Not saying he sucks, but I'm not that into it. Maybe I'll change. Even righteous minds go thru this.
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it was less obvious because he wasn't using punchlines or crazy flows, but Jay was going IN. give it another listen
It’s been interesting reading reviews of “Watch the Throne.” Nearly every critique I’ve seen, whether positive or negative, had more to do with whether or not the reviewer agreed with the album’s overall message than how good it was artistically. It continues the ironic trend of critics who claim that they hate artistic didacticism while unwittingly perpetuating it by being too close to the subject. “This album is so uplifting! or This album is so empty and materialistic!” On more than one occasion I felt the urge to scream into the writer’s ear “it’s just music, stop taking it so personally!” But after giving the album multiple listens and really taking it in, it became clear to me why so many critics are wrapped up in what Kanye and Jay are trying to say. The statement that they’re making with this album is much more interesting than the actual music. I could talk endlessly about things like production value and flow (which are top-notch by the way) but something tells me those aren’t the main things that Ye and Hov want people to take away from “Watch the Throne.” Normally I’m against a thorough analysis of a rapper’s lyrics. But this is one hip hop album that I feel deserves it.

“No Church in the Wild” is in many ways the perfect album opener. It not only establishes the album’s general theme but it also pretty much justifies everything else that comes after it. “What’s a God to a non-believer, who don’t believe in anything?” asks Frank Ocean in the haunting hook. Then Jay proceeds with what I believe to be one of the best verses of his career. “Tears on the mausoleum floor, blood stains the Colosseum doors, lies on the lips of a priest, Thanksgiving disguised as a feast.” Tainted beauty. Elaborate, magnificent, seemingly holy surfaces that distract from the depravity, violence, decay and corruption that lie underneath. Jay then references his car, attire and past as a drug dealer, almost as if saying that he’s a part of the same historical tradition he first referenced. But it’s not until the next few bars when it all comes together. “I’m wondering if a thug’s prayers reach, is Pius pious cause God loves pious? Socrates asked whose bias do ya’ll seek? All for Plato (play dough), screech.” Woah, a rapper referencing the Euthyphro dilemma? Jay is really operating on a higher level here.

I won’t go into too much detail about the dilemma since that would take up an entirely new post. But it basically poses this question; is what society considers to be morally good commanded by God because it is truly morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God? It asks the question of whether or not there is a definitive moral standard or if morality is completely relative and subjective. Jay is addressing this from two different perspectives which lead to the same conclusion. He looks at the dilemma from the point of view of its creator, Socrates, who was referencing the gods of Greek mythology, who are known to be biased and flawed despite their power. Since society’s moral standards are coming from a biased and flawed source, those standards shouldn’t be completely trusted or followed, giving way to moral relativism.

Where Jay really gets bold is his second perspective, the Judeo-Christian God who is perfect and infallible. As Frank Ocean states, these moral standards are meaningless if you don’t even believe in it’s source. But Jay goes further with his Pius/pious wordplay. There’s the actual word pious which not only means religious but also a hypocritical display of virtue. Then there’s Pius, the name of numerous Popes throughout history who often were, you guessed it, religious while showing a hypocritical display of virtue. It ties back to Jay’s earlier references of tainted beauty as well as what Jay believes to be the hypocritical nature of those in power, whether a god or man, who decide what is and what isn’t morally right.

So what’s the point of all this? It’s an outright rejection of what society teaches to be moral in favor of a move towards individualism and living a life free of boundary. Since Jay has rejected this while giving his reason for doing so, he’s now free to do whatever he wants, including indulge in materialism and drug dealing which he references earlier in the verse, two things that society deems as immoral. To drive this point further he ends his verse by comparing Kanye to Jesus and himself to the holy ghost. Blasphemous? Only to those who actually believe in who he references.
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Hacksaw Jim Thuggin

Hacksaw Jim Thuggin

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Yuffie said:
I used to fukk with every album (except BP2 :manny:). Hov was the most consistent, realest stories and his interviews were hotter...

But I was listening to Jigga that nikka and then WTT came on after that. This dude is no where near as good as he used to be. :snoop: this dude used to actually spit, even if it was the same story over and over again. I understand that he's in his late 60s but he might need to have a seat. This guy raps like he's a vegan now.

I'm seriously contemplating if his raps even qualify him for top 10 any more.

If you are still a Jay stan, please come to the light like I did.

l13L2LI.gif
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terrible thread...and you arent even funny
 
End Cruelty

End Cruelty

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Ineedmoney504 said:
:dwillhuh: op who the fukk are u, us hov stans never accepted your stan card young, now we reject your deposit
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I don't stan anyone on this board but offline I'm a huge fan. I stood outside the WTT tour at the garden arena, lipsyncing to the muffled hits because I couldn't afford to get in. I saw inside the gate and was stoked just to see Hov's bottom lip on a jumbo tron.

I have another friend who's a stan as well. We thought the first blueprint was so good that we bought 4-5 copies each and gave them to strangers, just because we felt they needed to have it.
 
atlbound

atlbound

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Yuffie said:
I don't stan anyone on this board but offline I'm a huge fan. I stood outside the WTT tour at the garden arena, lipsyncing to the muffled hits because I couldn't afford to get in. I saw inside the gate and was stoked just to see Hov's bottom lip on a jumbo tron.
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This nikka right here....whole thread is quotables. :bru: :bru: ++ repped
 
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