I think its time to admit that Kanye has eclipsed Jay-z as

[Capitol]

The fact that Kanye does beats, has better live performances and directs videos (very well) makes him a better artist than Jay.....

In the same vein that makes RZA a better artist than Rakim...


When I first saw this thread I felt it was stupid topic because OP was stating the obvious...

But now I see people passionately trying to argue against what should be a simple concept to digest...




Jay-Z is a better recording artist... Kanye is a better overall artist...


There is no logical disagreement....

If we are basing it on that, did Ye not eclipse Hov by the time he dropped College Dropout then? He had already produced entire albums, had features, and his debut is classic. T/S made it seem like he is just now achieving this and it was up for debut, but now all of a sudden it's common sense. If you factor in all of production and shyt then there is no point in even having this discussion. RZA, Pharell, Havoc, anybody that made beats etc etc are better artists then Hov. So what? Whats the point of that discussion? I think @BarNone already spoke on this

 

[OG Talk]

If we are basing it on that, did Ye not eclipse Hov by the time he dropped College Dropout then? He already produced entire albums, had features, and his debut is classic. T/S made it seem like he is just now achieving this. If you factor in all of production and shyt then there is no point in even having this discussion. RZA, Pharell, Havoc, etc etc are better artists then Hov. So what? Whats the point of that discussion?

To dog whistle Camel Stans into for the umpteeth time...

Sh1t I dunno... But that's what appears to have happened...

 

[Rominati]

Production is not the only reason why Kanye is a better artist than Jay. But im not even gonna bother with you rabid fans.


There's a reason why I can say Kanye is a better artist than Jay. But cant say Swizz Beats, Spaceghostpurrp or Timbaland are better artists than Jay, even tho they rap and produce beats too.

 

[Capitol]

To dog whistle Camel Stans into for the umpteeth time...

Sh1t I dunno... But that's what appears to have happened...

You're probably right there. I thought it was supposed to be comparing their albums head to head or something which is why I said Hov still had the edge, but could be topped in the future. I don't even see the point of this thread anymore because there is no way you can tell me Ye isn't a better artist just like you can't tell me he is a better rapper. The discussion is already slanted to one side. Whats going on here?
@Rominati Explain to me how Timbaland is not a better artist then Jay then

 

[OG Talk]

You're probably right there. I thought it was supposed to be comparing their albums head to head or something which is why I said Hov still had the edge, but could be topped in the future. I don't even see the point of this thread anymore because there is no way you can tell me Ye isn't a better artist just like you can't tell me is a better rapper. The discussion is already slanted to one side. Whats going on here?
@Rominati Explain to me how Timbaland is not a better artist then Jay then

Exactly...

 

[Still Benefited]

The fact that Kanye does beats, has better live performances and directs videos (very well) makes him a better artist than Jay.....

In the same vein that makes RZA a better artist than Rakim...


When I first saw this thread I felt it was stupid topic because OP was stating the obvious...

But now I see people passionately trying to argue against what should be a simple concept to digest...




Jay-Z is a better recording artist... Kanye is a better overall artist...


There is no logical disagreement....

So being a better artist then sumbody means absolutley shyt then cool ill give Kanye the nod for that then by definition....makes beats,spends a bunch of money on live performances bcuz maybe the songs don't stand on they own...and his videos are cool.....like the Big Pimpin video wuznt the shyt now

And I don't think u even read the OP bruh....the op talks about all the accolades Kanye has over Jay bcuz he has just as many endeavors now busness wise,he created a succesful lane outside gangsta rap,and he crossed over to be "more than hiphop" which is a cute way of saying he sold out I guess


These arguments sound awful familiar to reasons why Jay stans take heat when they use these arguments to put Jay over other artist.

He's worth half a billion,he married Beyonce,opened lanes in business for rappers,did a song with Sade,helped Obama in the election,higher chart positions than ya favorite,sold more albums

nikkas HATE Jay stans for doin that shyt against nikkas,I need a list of names who's cosignin this so next time Jay fanns use these arguments against Nas,Pac,Cube or anybody else y'all posters can't say shyt

Nad worst of all wuz the names the op includes as being up there with the greatness that is Kanye....other artist such as DMX who's business endeavors have been wildly succesful,who opened up a new lane as 2pac redo...I forgot sum of the other names but a few of em got the when u consider the fact JAY-Z is absent from the list but they on it...nikka EVEN COMpared Good music to Rocafella.

I never knew what y'all meant when y'all talk about "straw man" arguments on here,but I finally get it....its when a poster starts reachin for straws desperatly as his point is falling apart before his eyes....if this thread wuz about kanye making beats,having more conceptual videos,putting more effort into his stage shows...we could've all just came in and said "your right,cool,but Jay still better than Kanye" and moved on....all the extra shyt is where shyt got real

Threadstarter tried to take a inch,other stans came in and tried to go for the whole mile.

 

[jerzboy]

Either this is a horrible comparison by you are u need to admit the original point of the thread wuz not lost,but basically pointless to have Jays name involved in it....all the names listed in the op Jay is either more highly regarded than,or on par with Kanye isn't held in the same regard as most of that list.

You could say Prince is more of a artist than Michael Jackson too based off the fact he plays a bunch of different instruments and has helped produce other acts....end of the day that's Michael Jackson though...who the hell says Prince has surpassed Michael Jackson....I'm talkin bout the real world by the way not coli-posters lookin to do numbers by goin against popular opinion

Not sayin threadstarter did that,I'm speakin of threads sayin Prince is greater than MJ that I've seen on here...Jay is MJ nikkas

And I think rnb comparisons suck by the way cuz that's rnb and this is hiphop,two completly different things...so I think its crazy to compare Luther and Prince but if we must use a rnb comparison let's go for accuracy....He's not JAys peer yet at all...Luther and Prince are peers,MJ and Prince are peers...Kany ain't passed Sigel yet in my book,he still the lil homie for now.

I really can't explain much further. You have a wall set up to block incoming information.

The R&B comparisons can actually work, because it's all music, and every genre has it's own elements and unique characteristics.

Listen... Once again Jay is the better rapper. He sticks to the traditional elements within his genre, and is very successful. Kanye doesn't stick to the traditional elements of his music and is very successful.

The Luther comparison is actually right on. He owned his genre and stuck within his realm of R&B. Jay is not Michael in one sense of the word, stop it. MJ's whole thing was that he didn't want to be pigeonholed in one form of music, hence the title "King Of Pop" and not "King of R&B"... Ur an idiot if you think MJ was the king of R&B. For that reason let's ask ourselves, is MJ a better ARTSIT than Luther, YES. I didn't want to bring MJ into this conversation, but since most people like to assume Jay is the MJ of rap, let's talk

MJ was bigger than R&B, he was looked at as more than an artist who did R&B, and started to bring other elements of music into his sound, mind you with every album. Kanye to most people, who listen to more than one genre of music, is looked at as being bigger than hip hop for some of the same reason. Now before you go on and say "Now you're saying Kanye is MJ", no I am not, there is only 1 MJ. I'm comparing there process when approaching music, and the success and acclaim that they've had.

AND I originally didn't just want this to come down their own releases.... I talking about everything that Kanye has done with music and art... From fashion (which I give 2 shyts about) to fukking directing videos, to live shows....

To say Kanye is not even a peer to Jay-z is just dumb.

And I'm a Jay fan btw... Kanye isn't in my top 5, Jay is. With MJ & Prince, if you ask people who their favorite R&B singer is, most people won't say MJ or Prince. Same with Nine Inch Nails, if you ask people who their favorite Rock Band is, most people won't say them. NOW if you ask people who their favorite ARTIST are of all time, the bolded names would be listed..... AND just so you don't try to pull no BS, if you ask people what their favorite R&B or Rock, album is, they would still list some of the bolded artist work, but as a whole they're sound has always evolved into something bigger, thus being respected more for their artistry.

AND... I'm out

 

[BlackZilla]

I just wanna put all of the stupid emo fukktards that are talking about Kanye being bigger than Hip-Hop on a boat and just fire a missle right into it.

 

[OG Talk]

 

[Demon]

 

[904]

Ye might be the worst MC on GOOD music

I don't know about all this better artist shyt yall talking.. I guess this is just way for you to say that he's better than Jay.. I'll say the The Black Album is better than all that dude shyt with Late Registration being the only thing close to it..

Kanye bigger than hip-hop?
I can't even believe this is going this long..

 

[jerzboy]

@ this bs


Kanye peaked at Graduation breh


that fa ggot ain't bigger than hiphop....and nobody outside of the hiphop genre respects that beat jacking homo


hiphop fans are so delusional

You would actually be surprised, while most people think he's an a$$hole, they don't deny his talent

The most recent would be fun.'s new album, they were heavily inspired by Kanye's sound when they went to create their new album.To Daft Punk actually making a cameo in his video, when they haven't been seen for awhile at the time. To Jon Brion mentioning nothing but good things about working with him. To Nike letting him design a top selling sneaker.

 

[Mike Otherz]

Wow... The original point of the thread got lost.

People are too caught up in the fact that Jay is a better rapper. Yes this is true, no one will argue that, but certain artist grow bigger than the genre they were conceived in. They grasp ideas and influences from other forms of music and mesh their genre.

It's like arguing if Luther Vandross is a better ARTIST than Prince. Yeah Luther can sing better and he has classics for days, but no one will say he was better ARTISTICALLY than Prince.

Luther owned R&B, Prince wasn't just tied to the R&B world. Artistically he was all over the place, and did everything well with critical acclaim. Same with Ye. Let's see Jay do something like "808's", it's out of his realm. And miss me with all that "808's sucked" bs.

And not for nothing, look at the artistic talent that Kanye has brought fourth; Cudi, John Legend, Eric Hudson. All well respected for their art form in their genres. And don't say Jay brought Kanye fourth, because Dame Dash saw the talent.

Common's "Be", best believe Kanye played an important creative role with this album; and not just by producing.

kanyes predecessors are Tribe, De LA, Outkast etc. he nowhere near their level, but his artistic journey is similar. in that every album should be a statement and a piece of work to be taken seriously. jay only has one album that i think is a serious piece of work, everything else is compromised. now kanye is too self conscious with his "serious" work, which is why he don't stack up with the greats for me, but he definitely ahead of jay now.

 

[Still Benefited]

I really can't explain much further. You have a wall set up to block incoming information.

The R&B comparisons can actually work, because it's all music, and every genre has it's own elements and unique characteristics.

Listen... Once again Jay is the better rapper. He sticks to the traditional elements within his genre, and is very successful. Kanye doesn't stick to the traditional elements of his music and is very successful.

The Luther comparison is actually right on. He owned his genre and stuck within his realm of R&B. Jay is not Michael in one sense of the word, stop it. MJ's whole thing was that he didn't want to be pigeonholed in one form of music, hence the title "King Of Pop" and not "King of R&B"... Ur an idiot if you think MJ was the king of R&B. For that reason let's ask ourselves, is MJ a better ARTSIT than Luther, YES. I didn't want to bring MJ into this conversation, but since most people like to assume Jay is the MJ of rap, let's talk

MJ was bigger than R&B, he was looked at as more than an artist who did R&B, and started to bring other elements of music into his sound, mind you with every album. Kanye to most people, who listen to more than one genre of music, is looked at as being bigger than hip hop for some of the same reason. Now before you go on and say "Now you're saying Kanye is MJ", no I am not, there is only 1 MJ. I'm comparing there process when approaching music, and the success and acclaim that they've had.

AND I originally didn't just want this to come down their own releases.... I talking about everything that Kanye has done with music and art... From fashion (which I give 2 shyts about) to fukking directing videos, to live shows....

To say Kanye is not even a peer to Jay-z is just dumb.

And I'm a Jay fan btw... Kanye isn't in my top 5, Jay is. With MJ & Prince, if you ask people who their favorite R&B singer is, most people won't say MJ or Prince. Same with Nine Inch Nails, if you ask people who their favorite Rock Band is, most people won't say them. NOW if you ask people who their favorite ARTIST are of all time, the bolded names would be listed..... AND just so you don't try to pull no BS, if you ask people what their favorite R&B or Rock, album is, they would still list some of the bolded artist work, but as a whole they're sound has always evolved into something bigger, thus being respected more for their artistry.

AND... I'm out

Ask sumbody who they favorite rapper of all time nobody says Ye but people do say Jay.....ask people who they favorite artist of all time is and nobody says Ye

Which should tell you all the artistic bullshyt that impresses sum of y'all he is not doing it s effectivly as Prince or MJ and he should cut it out and stay in the damn lane of HIPHOP....I get ur point now but it still sucks becuz since when in hiphop has anybody wanted to be considered king of pop...if Kanye is like Michael and don't wanna be stuck in the "box" of hiphop then fine,he can get his accolades from people who are not hiphop fans and his fans shouldn't get mad if hiphop fans don't like his shyt...and no hate cuz I hated Michaels shyt too when he decided to embrace the "other sounds" to damn much too and went away from rnb and lost all soul....Jay been treading the line btw too and every album he's attempted this sounds like cheeks to me as well....Kanye will either go on to do sumthing as great as Thriller and become succesful as MJ and people will overlook all the shytty music he did trying to be outside the box or he will crash and burn.....and not be considered the greatest of the hiphop genre and all the people givin him "artistic" props will forget about his azz too if he doesn't reach the levels of the artist u bolded which he hasn not certainly.

U said it yourself,people who listen to more than one genre of hiphop will appreciate Kanye more than Jay probaly,I said that along time ago....I'm a hiphop/rnb fan,this is a hiphop board where u will find many hiphop fans who give a rats ass about "visuals",incorporating "other sounds" into the music to be seen as "bigger than hiphop" by NON hiphop fans....so if this is a discussion between people who listen to a bunch of other genres besides hiphop let me get up outta here and let y'all shower yalls accolades on Kanye,may bad I thought this wuz the booth

 

[ManBearPig]

of course the best artists come out of my city