If you condense ‘Reasonable Doubt’ down to an ‘Illmatic’ size track list … what tracks would you take off and would it be better than Illmatic?

[Goat poster]

Before the stans come out of the woodworks; First thing we must consider is we are comparing lyrical work of a 17 year old versus a 26 year old who may of been highly-influenced by the work of the 17 year old


Second thing we must consider is that we are comparing the production of a signed artist working a production dream team to the product of an self-financed independent artist


Now as I go through the track list


D’Evils
22 Two’s
Coming of Age
Cashmere Thoughts

Am I really gonna pull THESE tracks off?



I think this proves Reasonable Doubt is better than Illmatic


What do you stanleys think?

Why on earth would you take off D'Evils????

 

[Toe Jay Simpson]

FR FR....I was browsing the booth and this is crazy. They even said this shyt was better then DMX its dark n hell its hot.

Reasonable Doubt is a great album; despite the overall mix being not so great.

But that album didn't move the needle at all.

There is not one original or groundbreaking aspect of it.

There was so SO MUCH heat coming out at the time. so much ORIGINAL heat. RD was G league compared to other shyt dropping.


The only thing that REALLY makes that album stands out is that its jay z's pinnacle lyrically. Thats it.

Very true. Album didn’t get 5 mics until after Blueprint did and Source magazine did the revisions in 2002

 

[Goat poster]

Noone got love for "Politics as usual"

Which is one of my favorite tracks

 

[papertrail08]

Noone got love for "Politics as usual"

Which is one of my favorite tracks

Hell they’re in here dissing Coming of Age, that’s one of my favorite songs off the album

 

[Shadow King]

22 Twos
Ain't No Niqqa
Cashmere Thoughts
Friend or Foe

Can go for sake of having 10 records...

 

[Shadow King]

RD is simple too narrow in subject matter with ehhh production to compete with Illmatic even if you cut out the filler.

 

[Shadow King]

Cuban linx
The infamous
36 chambers
Life after death
Supreme clientele
Ready to die
Liquid swords
Etc

Then theres albums that might not be better per say cause of a few fillers, but could easily go classic for classic with it and still have plenty if heat in the chamber

Capital punishment
Idahih
Wu tang forever
Maybe RD
Maybe even IWW

Illmatic has 7/8 classics, 1/2 good songs and an intro. In the era of 20 track albums, id be hardpressed not to be able to name manu albums from the era having equal bangers at the very least if not more like cuban linx which is twice as long. Just as potent.

No to all but especially the bolded.

 

[Bugzbunny129]

No to all but especially the bolded.

How?

Half those albums are twice the tracks, all have maybr a few weak songs, but just as many classics easy.

One
We made it
Saturfay night
Ghost deini
Mighty healthy
Wise
Childs play
Stroke of death
Chez chez

Juicy
Machine gun funk
Warning
The what
One more chance
Big poppa
Unbelievabke
Me and my bytch
Suicifal thoughts

Cream
Method man
Bring da ruckus
Wu aint nothing to f wit
Protect ya neck
Mysery of chessboxin
Can it be
Shame on nuh





Reunited
Triumph
Impossible
For heavens sake
Scary hours
Bells of war
A better tomorrow
Heaterz
Its yourz

Scarfaces
Criminology
Rainy dayz
Glaciers
Heaven and hell
Verbwl intercourse
Ice cream
Can it be remix
Knowledge god
Northstar

Shook ones
Give up the goods
Eye for an eye
Right back atchu
Cradle to the grave
Start of ya ending
Survivak of the fittest
TeMp rising
Qu hectic


Beware
Still not a player
Dream shatter
You ainy a killer
Twinz
Glamour life
Tres leches
You came up
Carribean connect

Intro
Get at me dog
Stop being greedy
Ruff rider anthem
Hows it going down
nikkas dkne started
Damien
Let me fly
Look thru my eyes




All of these songs are 5/5 stone cold classics and then they have like 5-15 more tracks on em.

And on top of that, most of em are their own innovations in production/style while nas used the sounds of gangstarr, a tribe called quest, pete rock n cl, to build his project frkm already existing sounds

For that alone, they are above it. Never mind shyt like life after death that has more SMASHES than illmatic had SONGS.

 

[Shadow King]

How?

Half those albums are twice the tracks, all have maybr a few weak songs, but just as many classics easy.

One
We made it
Saturfay night
Ghost deini
Mighty healthy
Wise
Childs play
Stroke of death
Chez chez

Juicy
Machine gun funk
Warning
The what
One more chance
Big poppa
Unbelievabke
Me and my bytch
Suicifal thoughts

Cream
Method man
Bring da ruckus
Wu aint nothing to f wit
Protect ya neck
Mysery of chessboxin
Can it be
Shame on nuh





Reunited
Triumph
Impossible
For heavens sake
Scary hours
Bells of war
A better tomorrow
Heaterz
Its yourz

Scarfaces
Criminology
Rainy dayz
Glaciers
Heaven and hell
Verbwl intercourse
Ice cream
Can it be remix
Knowledge god
Northstar

Shook ones
Give up the goods
Eye for an eye
Right back atchu
Cradle to the grave
Start of ya ending
Survivak of the fittest
TeMp rising
Qu hectic


Beware
Still not a player
Dream shatter
You ainy a killer
Twinz
Glamour life
Tres leches
You came up
Carribean connect

Intro
Get at me dog
Stop being greedy
Ruff rider anthem
Hows it going down
nikkas dkne started
Damien
Let me fly
Look thru my eyes




All of these songs are 5/5 stone cold classics and then they have like 5-15 more tracks on em.

And on top of that, most of em are their own innovations in production/style while nas used the sounds of gangstarr, a tribe called quest, pete rock n cl, to build his project frkm already existing sounds

For that alone, they are above it.

More is not always more. We judge albums has they flow from start to end. If you have to eliminate record to make sure your point then it doesn't work.

 

[Bugzbunny129]

More is not always more. We judge albums has they flow from start to end. If you have to eliminate record to make sure your point then it doesn't work.

I jusge rappers on their peaks, not their valleys. And even so, Im not eliminating anything from ANY of these albums EXCEPT one time 4 ya mind. They just have an equal amount of classics if NOT MORE, while also being twice the run time, twice the innovation, and most were twice as successful in real time while being their own groups established unique sounds wheras illmatics is BORROWED.

Once 1995 hit , wu tang biggie pac and mobb deep… noone gave a fukk about illmatic like that. None of the singles caught on Which is why he had to change his sound uo so drastically just to compete. It was written another classic right there with it.

TAKE IT IN BLOOD
Streetdreams
The message
I gave you power
Suspect
Shootouts
Live nikka rap
If i ruled the world

Cuban linx is flawless. Innovated production and style, 70min to 39. Nothing on cuban linx is weaker than one tine 4 ya mind and half time was also dated asf and played out by 1995 having released 2 years prior to illmatic.

All of these albums are culturally impactful, pretending one is flawless for doing less… theres subjective opinion and then theres reality.

Illmatic is one if the greatest albums ever , a top 20 album imo. But it has contention because its barely an album and its really an ep. And when people bring down albuns as lesser because they took more chances while also being classics, just makes one a nas stan.

 

[Shadow King]

I jusge rappers on their peaks, not their valleys. And even so, Im not eliminating anything from ANY of these albums EXCEPT one time 4 ya mind. They just have an equal amount of classics if NOT MORE, while also being twice the run time, twice the innovation, and most were twice as successful in real time while being their own groups established unique sounds wheras illmatics is BORROWED.

Once 1995 hit , wu tang biggie pac and mobb deep… noone gave a fukk about illmatic like that. None of the singles caught on Which is why he had to change his sound uo so drastically just to compete. It was written another classic right there with it.

TAKE IT IN BLOOD
Streetdreams
The message
I gave you power
Suspect
Shootouts
Live nikka rap
If i ruled the world

Cuban linx is flawless. Innovated production and style, 70min to 39. Nothing on cuban linx is weaker than one tine 4 ya mind and half time was also dated asf and played out by 1995 having released 2 years prior to illmatic.

All of these albums are culturally impactful, pretending one is flawless for doing less… theres subjective opinion and then theres reality.

Illmatic is one if the greatest albums ever , a top 20 album imo. But it has contention because its barely an album and its really an ep. And when people bring down albuns as lesser because they took more chances while also being classics, just makes one a nas stan.

You are eliminating records, from the other albums, not Illmatic, otherwise you wouldn't bother listing the best 10 for each one.

Again, more is not always more. It's not pretending, it is flawless for doing less, not solely for that reason, but for the album as presented, delivered. I'm not going to reward an album for having 6 more songs when I think 9 songs as combined is a better listening experience than the 15. Referring to each song as a risk to take or not take is a very flawed viewpoint.

By your metric double albums automatically take precedence.

 

[papa pimp]

I said what I said. The beats on RD are mostly just there and Jay Z has always been a rapper who stuck to his comfort zone content wise.

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

There is way to many posts about removing “Friend or Foe” for me to not stand up for it again.

It’s a straight up GEM…beat is fire…FIRE. It’s short & sweet, and blends perfectly into the following song. It’s witty af and showed more charisma than several of the other songs.

“You draw? Better be Picasso…”

 

[2ATMsYouSteppinOrWhat]

illmatic can’t fukk with rd

 

[Whips-n-Chains]

What about instead of eliminating tracks from RD, we add 4 from IWW…?

Also, if illmatic is so meh to y’all, why is it always the measuring stick for album comparisons?