illmatic: lyrical masterpiece or fraud?

[blackslash]

LOok at these Nas stans with the whole "ur a troll no need to defend Illmatic's label of 'lyrical masterpiece'"

Lmaooo these Nas stans no damn well they have no answer

Look at em struggling with the fact that putting a bunch of words together with hardly any relevance and poetic elements in em is not lyricism

Man reciprocal has done it again

The biggest lie perpetuated in Hip Hop is that Illmatic is a lyrical masterpice

Reciprocal proving that

Thread of the year

 

[Broccoli Rob]

Bulletholes left in my peepholes

Disagree for the most part. But I always did trip on that line...

How the fukk can you leave holes in something that's already a hole??

There's nothing there!!! Maybe bullet holes left near his peephole, but definitely not in it.

 

[Pop123]

"Illmatic" is f*cking garbage

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Disagree for the most part. But I always did trip on that line...

How the fukk can you leave holes in something that's already a hole??

There's nothing there!!! Maybe bullet holes left near his peephole, but definitely not in it.

It rhymed so he wrote it. Simple as that.

 

[Darts]

I'm going to be honest, I've always been part of the IWW>>>Illmatic as far as a complete album goes contigent. You can say what you want about the OP but his favorite rapper thinks the same. I understand the historical impact of Illmatic and how it changed the game, but you guys aren't really arguing away his points.

The OP is basically saying that he doesn't see the lyricism is seemingly incoherent bars. It's the same as in how people think some poetry is overrated if it's just tossing phrases on the page that may mean something in the abstract but don't build up and tie together neatly. He doesn't appreciate that songs like Memory Lane are basically free verse.

It's no surprise that Nas is at his best when he is storytelling, it allows him to take the ability to create vivid descriptions and concentrate it into a single purpose. Again, it boils down to subjective opinions about lyricism--the OP is saying that metaphors, wordplay, punchlines, sarcasm, irony, and wit when done at their highest level is superior to an accumulative exposition of creative imagery and vivid depictions and superior tone-setting (Nas' M.O).

It's really not an unreasonable position to feel that Illmatic is in some ways overrated if you adhere to former criteria, which he has consistently demonstrated that he does. He's really attacking Nas' notion as a lyricist on those grounds, and not a single poster has stated why that way is looking at lyricism in the wrong way. There are debates among poets for a reason and artists for a reason, people can disagree about great works. But if you argue on his terms, then he's correct. To prove him wrong, all one has to do is reshape the argument, which isn't very hard to do.

@ trying to give intellectual legitimacy to a troll thread.


Jay stans I swear

 

[Spenceful]

"Illmatic" is f*cking garbage

quoted for truth

 

[Ice Water]

Illmatic is not garbage, It shouldn't be put on a pedestal like most people have it, but it's no where near incoherant. The constant Nas hate is a paradox i swear.

 

[MustafaSTL]

I'm going to be honest, I've always been part of the IWW>>>Illmatic as far as a complete album goes contigent. You can say what you want about the OP but his favorite rapper thinks the same. I understand the historical impact of Illmatic and how it changed the game, but you guys aren't really arguing away his points.

The OP is basically saying that he doesn't see the lyricism is seemingly incoherent bars. It's the same as in how people think some poetry is overrated if it's just tossing phrases on the page that may mean something in the abstract but don't build up and tie together neatly. He doesn't appreciate that songs like Memory Lane are basically free verse.

It's no surprise that Nas is at his best when he is storytelling, it allows him to take the ability to create vivid descriptions and concentrate it into a single purpose. Again, it boils down to subjective opinions about lyricism--the OP is saying that metaphors, wordplay, punchlines, sarcasm, irony, and wit when done at their highest level is superior to an accumulative exposition of creative imagery and vivid depictions and superior tone-setting (Nas' M.O).

It's really not an unreasonable position to feel that Illmatic is in some ways overrated if you adhere to former criteria, which he has consistently demonstrated that he does. He's really attacking Nas' notion as a lyricist on those grounds, and not a single poster has stated why that way is looking at lyricism in the wrong way. There are debates among poets for a reason and artists for a reason, people can disagree about great works. But if you argue on his terms, then he's correct. To prove him wrong, all one has to do is reshape the argument, which isn't very hard to do.

Wow, you really wasted a lot of time. Nobody is trying to put up a reasonable rebuttal to the OP because everybody knows that he's a troll baiting closet Nas stan. He will hop on every Nas related thread to hate on Nas just to try to get lols and daps from the anti-Nas coalition. There is no plausible reason to debate with someone when they have a one-track minded agenda to a thread like this one.

 

[smoking man]

nas lost

 

[No1]

Wow, you really wasted a lot of time. Nobody is trying to put up a reasonable rebuttal to the OP because everybody knows that he's a troll baiting closet Nas stan. He will hop on every Nas related thread to hate on Nas just to try to get lols and daps from the anti-Nas coalition. There is no plausible reason to debate with someone when they have a one-track minded agenda to a thread like this one.

I didn't waste any time, I type fast. That took 3 minutes, ask anyone who I help write articles on this site. But this is just a poor argument and a bullshyt cop out when people hate on other artists on here all the time and when people don't show up to respond it's "Drake fans avoiding this one." You all wasted your time reading what he said, but no one rebutted him. Lastly, I know he doesn't particularly like Nas but his reasoning has been the same for years. Based on his standard of lyricism Nas doesn't stack up. And for all these years all Nas fans say to him is that he doesn't get it. I'd say in a neutral forum he'd be winning the argument just on that alone.

 

[No1]

@ trying to give intellectual legitimacy to a troll thread.


Jay stans I swear

I could easily counteract his argument. That was the point of my entire post and I've seen this guy post for years and his arguments are always from the same place, but you bum ass Nas stans never actually counteract his points. He's said the same shyt even before you guys started calling him a troll. I never once stepped in and defended him.

But you guys, and look like a bunch of babies gathering comfort in not having to defend your opinion. Nas is one of my three favorite rappers, most of my friends would probably even say my favorite (for multiple reasons), but I've been watching this cowardly shyt for years. Dude argues that Nas is not as lyrical as you guys say he is using a particular definition of lyricism and you guys go and dip out. I watch the guy post in HL in religion threads, he's obviously not some idiot. He may enjoy roasting Nas because his stans on this site are intolerable, but that doesn't negate his points which I've seen him make repeatedly over the years. He even judges Biggie the same way. It's not different than how East Coast people used to argue that a lot of West Coast rappers weren't lyrical but only appealed to our East Coast definitions of lyricism.

It's EASY to do, but none of you ever do. Somebody just do it, it's been years

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Wow, you really wasted a lot of time. Nobody is trying to put up a reasonable rebuttal to the OP because everybody knows that he's a troll baiting closet Nas stan. He will hop on every Nas related thread to hate on Nas just to try to get lols and daps from the anti-Nas coalition. There is no plausible reason to debate with someone when they have a one-track minded agenda to a thread like this one.

My dislike for naS stems from what this thread shows. Hes not an elite lyrist especially on illmatic, stans swear that he is, but have never supported the claim instead resort to some dumb shyt like, "come on dawg its naS" like all of a sudden im sposed to be like "since you put it that way..."

 

[No1]

This is perfect...

+1

I would add one thing... if we grant naS the benefit of the doubt with his incoherent bars and such, then we gotta do the same for every other rapper. I fail to see how illmatic is a better lyrical feat than.... 2Pacalypse Now, which came out before illmatic.

I could answer this, but I'll let another Nas fan do it in more detail because I'm in class and shouldn't be on here. But I'll say this, Nas was providing a different breed of plush descriptions of an entire city an era. I guess it falls back to how do you define lyricism.

 

[Darts]

I could easily counteract his argument. That was the point of my entire post and I've seen this guy post for years and his arguments are always from the same place, but you bum ass Nas stans never actually counteract his points. He's said the same shyt even before you guys started calling him a troll. I never once stepped in and defended him.

But you guys, and look like a bunch of babies gathering comfort in not having to defend your opinion. Nas is one of my three favorite rappers, most of my friends would probably even say my favorite (for multiple reasons), but I've been watching this cowardly shyt for years. Dude argues that Nas is not as lyrical as you guys say he is using a particular definition of lyricism and you guys go and dip out. I watch the guy post in HL in religion threads, he's obviously not some idiot. He may enjoy roasting Nas because his stans on this site are intolerable, but that doesn't negate his points which I've seen him make repeatedly over the years. He even judges Biggie the same way. It's not different than how East Coast people used to argue that a lot of West Coast rappers weren't lyrical but only appealed to our East Coast definitions of lyricism.

It's EASY to do, but none of you ever do. Somebody just do it, it's been years

I'm pretty sure u didn't read the posts of the OP in here (I did for my amusement)...because if u did, u would see that he took some of the most straight forward lines and said they were garbage gibberish/incoherent....u think anybody wants to have a legit rebuttal after that?

 

[JasonSJackson]

go play in traffic