In Playoffs, Jordan is a career 50.0% on game-winning/tying shots w/in 24 sec (Link)
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Are you just trolling now?
Kobe also put up 33 points in 29 minutes on Jordan at 18 years old
Los Angeles Lakers at Chicago Bulls Box Score, December 17, 1997 | Basketball-Reference.com
Really? 104-83? That was the game that was over by half-time right? 57-41 at the end of the 2nd quarter....
Then shoots three Air balls in the playoffs against the same white boys in Utah ya saying ain't sh1t.
Kobe Bryant Does 3 Air balls in a very tight moment against the Jazz - YouTube
So hornacek and john stockton are better defenders than Jordan right?
So hornacek and john stockton are better defenders than Jordan right?
Stockton was a great defender for his size, I think he's number 1 on the all-time steals list.
Wade is better than Kobe, his scoring averages are up there and he shoots a way better fg% against the very same tall lanky defenders Kobe seems to havd so much trouble shooting 45% against.
did you read my post? I said i didn't see the other games. this game dennis was not the primary defender you fukking liar. thats the reason your whole post is suspect. They had the whole team take turns trying to shut MJ down. and SMH @ you trying to dismiss the possibility that MJ was ever double teamed. gtfoh
stop it. who said Mj didnt live with a double team? i didnt. the point was what? i said DJ was his primary defender. yes they took turns. but DJ was still his primary defender. and who cares if a slow unathletic larry guards him. who cares if some other slow of foot big guards him, who cares if another shorter guy guards him. atleast DJ had some serious defense and strength. he was just to short.
lets say they trapped him to make you feel better. DJ at 6'4 with normal man wingspan. and some other 6'7 guy from back in the day with so so athletic ability and normal wingspan.
then lets look at mr bryant vs UTAH.
Raja bell with so so athletic ability but at 6'5, then here comes an alien AK 47 at 6'9 with a 7 foot+ mans reach with hops. to boot. remember he lead the league in shot blocking until he got hurt one season. the fool was so long and athletic(like a pogo stick) he lead the league in shot blocking. he wasnt even a PF in reality. they had him playing center on defense out of necessity. the guy was a SF.
which trap do you think is tougher to get thru
6'4 regular arms + 6'7 regular arms (average athleticism)
OR
6'5 regular arms + 6'9 alien arms with hops
Evolution is part of the process bro, Jordan was more dominant against his peers than Kobe ever was....How do you explain 6'4 Dwayne Wade shooting 49% from the Field against those very same defenders???
Your argument can be used against you in 25 years, cause according to your logic, NBA defenders in the year 2035 will be much tougher than the ones Kobe is facing now, therefore Kobe's accomplishment's against his peers are minimized. This is what you're saying.
Explain Wade?
Washed up Jordan against Kobe's peers:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3IQKeenIKw&feature=relmfu"]Michael Jordan 2003: 40yrs & 30pts vs. Dirk's Mavericks - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csxynd_5vl8"]Michael Jordan (Wizards) Highlights (41pts-12rebs) vs.Pacers [01-04-03] - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGp71TMkYzc&feature=related"]Michael Jordan NBA record 43 points at age 40 Highlights Part 2 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbOvgJJonXQ"]Michael Jordan - Wizards vs Hornets (51 Points) - part 1 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0UTltX1oq4&feature=related"]MICHAEL JORDAN: 44 pts vs Utah Jazz (2001) - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcARNIt8Ydk&feature=related"]Michael Jordan 2003 - 45pts, 16days before turning 40 - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHwhLbW08_8&feature=related"]Michael Jordan 2003: Age 40 Vs Celtics, Last Game in Boston, 25pts - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmngcHYnfN0&feature=related"]Michael Jordan 2002: Age 38 vs. Kevin Garnett & Timberwolves, 35pts - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z6rTb2m-Uw&feature=related"]Michael Jordan 2003: Age 40 (33pts) vs. Pau Gasol (ROY) & Grizzlies - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBVL5kUGVdE&feature=related"]MICHAEL JORDAN: 37 pts vs Miami Heat (2002) HD - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBVL5kUGVdE&feature=related"]MICHAEL JORDAN: 37 pts vs Miami Heat (2002) HD - YouTube[/ame]
god shamgod
Veteran
The bolded were desperation shots he had to throw up with like 1 second left
The underlined were shots that literally went down,bounced around and came out
This dude would be like 65-70% wit the game on the line if u omit these shots
9:40 mark I remember watchin this live and jumpin up snappin cuz the bulls lost
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god shamgod
Veteran
^ Didn't watch the game post.6'9 derrick mckey guarded Jordan on this miss the footage is in the post above this one
Kobe also put up 33 points in 29 minutes on Jordan at 18 years old
Los Angeles Lakers at Chicago Bulls Box Score, December 17, 1997 | Basketball-Reference.com
^Another person who couldn't have saw the game post
Kobe got 17 of those points in garbage time against the 2nd unit when the bulls were up 25
**THIS IS a LONG ONE***. for those yougins that never really paid attention to jordan growing up cause you were to young. you just heard stories and watched youtube clips. read the entire post. So you will know what happened and stop arguing with people that were there.
washed up jordan against kobe's peers when kobe's peers were children in the nba. they were all 2 and 3 years in. thats not a fair comparison at all. in addition MJ got his NUMBERS but what did his fg% look like most nights vs these types? not to hot. thats what. and thats all the MJ is god people talk about when they bring up kobe.
explain wade? lol. wade also didnt average 30 pts while doing it? you shoot that many shots vs those kind of defenders your fg% will drop.
as for a shorter wade (with the wingspan of a 6'7 guy, and the build of a sg/sf). again his fg% was up there because he didnt chuck as many 3's as kobe. kobe is a SCORER SHOOTER. the only one of his kind possibly ever. most super scoring perimeter guys either shoot wayyyyy to much and forget about going to the rack. or they go to the rack and dont shoot. dwade was in the middle of mj and kobe during his best year as far as shooting was concerned. but no one called him a shooter of any sorts. but we can call kobe a shooter that will also go to the rank often.
Player Comparison Finder | Basketball-Reference.com
now on a side note, what was trippy when i looked these stats up is that all 3 of those fools at about the same age, almost had the exact same ppg average.
but when you click on that link, scroll down to the "PER GAME" . then notice a few things. the number of shots taken, the number of 3's taken, the 3 pt fg%, and the fg% over all.
kobe shoots a better 3pt% that year, but he also chucks an additional 2 more threes then even dwade that year.
Jordan- FGA-22.7
Kobe- FGA - 22.8
Wade- FGA - 22.0
Jordan - 3pA - 1.3
Kobe - 3pA - 5.2
Wade - 3pA - 3.5
Jordan - FG made - 11.8 fg%.519
Kobe - FG made - 10.6 fg%.463
Wade - FG made - 10.8 fg$%.491
if kobe took 2 less threes like dwade and lets assume he would've scored 1 of them.
kobe's stats would show - FGA 22.8 - FGmade - 11.6 FG%.508
if kobe took 4 less threes like jordan. and lets say he made 2 more two pt shots because of it
kobe's stats would show - FGA 22.8 - FGmade - 12.6 FG%.552
KOBE bryant is the best perimeter scorer the nba has ever seen.
look at the FT attempts for all 3 guys.
now you will call me a kobe fan for this. but its a fact that cant be disupted if you watch kobe's game, mj's old games(before he was loved, then after), then if you watch dwades games once he became a media darling(fresh after kobe became the most hated(post colorado, post shaq trade).
Jordan played in the era of legal handchecking. therefore he was not going to receive as many SOFT touch fouls on the perimeter before he even made a move towards the basket. thats a fact that cant be disputed.
KOBE played in both eras in the 90's. and 2000's, the nba has gotten softer and softer alone the perimeter due to the rules. kobe played in the era of soft zones(when they first started them) and super zones(boston in the finals is proof)
Dwade played in the 100% soft era of "dont touch or else its a foul" alone the perimeter. but he played in an era of legit zones.
here's the main problem when you only compare the above.
You're not taking into acct. MJ use to get hit like crazy going to the rack and they wouldnt call CRAP for dude in his early years. why? because thats how all young guys were treated. welcome to the NBA. you earn your "superstar status".
Kobe can in the same way. we didnt see a ton of him because he came in playing at 17 behind another allstar in eddie jones. by the time kobe grew up, shaq grew up and they had pjax winning ships.
Dwade only had his first couple of seasons to get the you aint nobody treatment by the refs. but again he grew up in a soft perimeter defense era. so he would get calls MJ nor KOBE never got their first few years. just on the strength of the rule changes.
now lets talk MJ. after Detroit aged out, and Chi town finally start winning(once pippen, ho grant grew up). Mike became AIR jordan the hoop god. The shoes were beloved by all, and that played a major role. that was the first time nike ever did a world wide campaign for any athlete. this is why no one will ever top is ICON status. he's the father of big endorsement deals and overseas exposure.
now with that said, the nba wasnt nearly as popular as it was back in the magic bird days. the NBA needed a shot in the arm to regain that popularity. so they started marketing Jordan by himself more or less. they didnt markey Barkley, jordan, stockton/malone, etc. like you see now how they will market griffin, LBJ, Durant, CP3, dwight. its back to normal again. where you can market multiple people. this is also why Dwade was loved by americans(when he was on top) more so then kobe. or i should say wade wasnt hated nearly as much. and wade somewhat ran point. so he didnt get the over done MJ comparison. even though he's from the shy and his game is closer to MJ's then it isnt with how he rushed the rim a lot and didnt shoot a lot.
so you have MJ being the MAIN attraction for the circus you know called the NBA. guess what that means? it means everyone thats getting a check(refs included). is partially due to Jordan at this point in the nba. and they knew it. therefore he got love by the refs like it was a Country club and he was the head of the country club. he went from being a rookie/someone people didnt like because he wasnt a passer like Magic, he wasnt white like bird(shooter), and he wasnt a bigman like kareem. to becoming the sole reason we watched the NBA. so of course he would get technically "undeserved calls, or TOUCH fouls along the perimeter and in the post before he even made his move a lot of times. this means he's getting more fouls during his championship runs then he would have if the league wasnt based on him. that would'ved lowered his ppg, OR he would've forced it more. and would've had a lower fg%. this is something you cant see on a stat sheet. you have had to watch his entire career to know this.
Dwade, got similar love for almost all of his career after the first 2 years or so. especially once kobe fell out of the good graces with the colorado incident. in addition there was never a time where EVERYONE loved kobe. kobe was always seen as "THE NEXT jordan" like alot of other guys. older heads hated that. so they hated on him from day one no matter how good he was. no matter how hard he worked. they would never allow themselves to believe he could be the next one. even if that were the case. this goes to stern, as well as the refs. So even though after the 90's kobe plays in the soft era of perimeter defense where you cant touch above the 3pt line. kobe post colorado. is getting Handchecked at the half court line like its 1991 for no calls. and here's another thing. i said at half court for a reason.
yall remember that "BIG OLE BUCKET" when jordan hit those 3's. go find kobe's game when he set the record for 3's in a game in seattle. there's a huge difference in how these 3's are taken. Notice no one is up on Jordan. and its not just because he would blow by you. so would kobe(in his hay day). but its because you would rather watch a non shooting jordan take the jumper. KOBE, you cant watch that man shoot the ball. you saw what happen in seattle and that was with hands in his face. how money is this dude pre finger ligament injuries on the shooting hand, etc?
this is how LETHAL kobe was. you had to pick the dude up at half court OR ELSE. you didnt have to do this with dwade or MIke. thats a known fact.
So now you're illegally handchecking kobe. who still ends up with more ft attempts then wade, and jordan. and we've seen wade his championship year. get more ft's then MIke ever got. which we all know was fake and ridiculous. Kobe nor jordan has ever received that type of love and babying from the refs.
KOBE gets Hacked on his jumpshot just as much as he does going to the rack. its so bad the refs have to look the other way or else you would watch the guy shoot 18fts per game. thats because the defenders have to play KOBe aggressively for a longer period of time. since kobe unlike anyone else, can score from ANYWHERE on the court. aggressive defense = more fouls. thats also a known fact. but it doesnt always result in a lot more foul calls because of what i said earlier. no one wants to watch anyone shoot 18 fts a game. i'm a kobe/laker fan. and i know i dont want to watch him shoot that many even if he deserves them. now granted if the guys is being hacked in the finals. give him the whistle. so he wont lose a ring because you swallowed your whistle. but during the season. you have to swallow the whistle a bit to keep the game flowing.
Now yall know the full story. with statistical proof. this is why KOBE is the most lethal perimeter scorer the nba has ever seen. yall MJ is god fans have to realize. he has to be Jordan 2.0 and yall should be proud of him. he used Jordan's trainer, some of his training techniques. he used his coach, he used a ton of his moves. and he has his same passion and desire, maybe even more so. kobe is crazy about basketball more so then anyone you have ever seen since jordan. So of course he would start off earlier in his career with a better jumper, with a better post game(early). he borrowed it from Mike himself. but he also had to play the roll of pippen(facilitator) while being MJ the scorer his entire career. Jordan had one role and that was to be a SCORER. you ever notice how many times kobe gets the ball with 3 seconds left on the shot clock. that wouldnt happen if he wasnt being the facilitator who pass the ball around to begin with. if he was just a scorer. he would get the ball with 10 seconds on the shot clock. then he would do whatever he wanted to do with it. that means he's not up against the clock in a bad spot to shoot with defense all in his face. this also effects his FG%. and even though dwade was a beast in his prime. his teammates never thought of him like SUPER MAN scorer like kobe's teammates thought of kobe. so thats one more reason to pass the ball with 3 seconds left to superman if you dont have a shot. again killing your fg%.
these are not bogus excuses. these are legitimate facts that can be seen if you watch a laker game, heat game(pre lbj, and bosh), and jordan in chicago.
If you dont want to hear these reasons. then you just want to believe jordan is the greatest and no one else can top that. EVER. no matter what they do. and thats foolish thinking. my pops thought the same thing about julius until jordan came along and crushed the buildings. he was hating on mike like crazy. then i realized why. his guy was DR J. i was like Pops, atleast jordan has a nice mid range Jumper. the clips i've seen of Dr J he cant shoot. pops "buu but but. the nba was tougher.."
let it go. there's always someone out there that could possibly be better.
here comes LBJ, if that guy gets a serious post game. and tigthens up his mid range and 3 ball. he will be the greatest baller to ever touch the rock along the perimeter. i'm not afraid to say it. so why are you?
TrebleMan
Superstar
edit:
This shyt is bugging. Posted in a thread from today and instead posts a reply to one from 2012
This shyt is bugging. Posted in a thread from today and instead posts a reply to one from 2012