In retrospect, was the second round of Wu-Tang solos underrated?

[mitter]

I remember people were generally disappointed by the second round of Wu-Tang solo albums that came out from 1998-2000. I think the bar was set so high by the first round of solos that there was no way that the second round could live up to the hype and anticipation.

But in retrospect, I thought most of the releases were really solid, and I still listen to many of them frequently. It may not have been what we had hoped for, but I think the second round was underrated:

Bobby Digital - Not what people were expecting or wanting from RZA. I was initially kind of thrown off by a whole album about this weird Bobby Digital character. But the album really grew on me over time. Very entertaining, and some really good songs on there ("B.O.B.B.Y," "Holocaust," "NYC Everything" etc.)

Tical 2000 - Some of the skits were corny, some of the songs were filler, but overall a solid effort. No truly great songs, but lots of good ones ("Dangerous Grounds," "Step by Step," Play 4 Keeps," etc.) I think that in general people expected too much from Meth. He was really talented and it was frustrating that he never seemed be able to put it all together and create a classic album. But he left behind lots of work to appreciate.

Uncontrolled Substance - Not the epic album we had hoped for from the guy who seemed to steal the show on every track on which he dropped a verse. How is it that Deck dropped so many memorable verses from 93-98 and then nothing on his actual solo album seemed to come close to those? But once I accepted the fact that the album wasn't filled with "Triumph"-like verses, I really appreciated it.

Beneath the Surface - Not Liquid Swords, but a dope album.

Immobilarity - I think this was perhaps the most hyped release and then the most trashed when it failed to live up to expectations. It sounded a lot different than people expected it to. No RZA, no Ghostface. It was a far cry from Cuban Linx, but it had lots of solid tracks ("100 Rounds," "Live from NY," "Sneakers," "Power"). I think people unfairly called it wack. It was far from a classic, but even farther from being wack.

Supreme Clientele - Nothing needs to be said

(I know I didn't go over all the releases, but you get the picture)

 

[mitter]

 

[Peak]

I remember people were generally disappointed by the second round of Wu-Tang solo albums that came out from 1998-2000. I think the bar was set so high by the first round of solos that there was no way that the second round could live up to the hype and anticipation.

But in retrospect, I thought most of the releases were really solid, and I still listen to many of them frequently. It may not have been what we had hoped for, but I think the second round was underrated:

Bobby Digital - Not what people were expecting or wanting from RZA. I was initially kind of thrown off by a whole album about this weird Bobby Digital character. But the album really grew on me over time. Very entertaining, and some really good songs on there ("B.O.B.B.Y," "Holocaust," "NYC Everything" etc.)

Tical 2000 - Some of the skits were corny, some of the songs were filler, but overall a solid effort. No truly great songs, but lots of good ones ("Dangerous Grounds," "Step by Step," Play 4 Keeps," etc.) I think that in general people expected too much from Meth. He was really talented and it was frustrating that he never seemed be able to put it all together and create a classic album. But he left behind lots of work to appreciate.

Uncontrolled Substance - Not the epic album we had hoped for from the guy who seemed to steal the show on every track on which he dropped a verse. How is it that Deck dropped so many memorable verses from 93-98 and then nothing on his actual solo album seemed to come close to those? But once I accepted the fact that the album wasn't filled with "Triumph"-like verses, I really appreciated it.

Beneath the Surface - Not Liquid Swords, but a dope album.

Immobilarity - I think this was perhaps the most hyped release and then the most trashed when it failed to live up to expectations. It sounded a lot different than people expected it to. No RZA, no Ghostface. It was a far cry from Cuban Linx, but it had lots of solid tracks ("100 Rounds," "Live from NY," "Sneakers," "Power"). I think people unfairly called it wack. It was far from a classic, but even farther from being wack.

Supreme Clientele - Nothing needs to be said

(I know I didn't go over all the releases, but you get the picture)

Largely average to good (with the exception of Supreme clientele)

 

[mitter]

 

[erker]

Bobby Digital In Stereo, Supreme Clientele, Uncontrolled Substance and Beneath The Surface were my favs of the 2nd round.

Not 2nd round, but I recently rediscovered Rza's Digital Bullet. Was so much better than I remembered it to be. I like Rza's second much better than Bobby Digital In Stereo.
Case in point:


Vintage Wu banger, that wouldn't be misplaced on Wu-Tang Forever.

 

[filial_piety]

Uncontrolled Substance is very underrated imo...sounds like a traditional mid-90s Wu album...i slept on this back in the day
Beneath the Surface is dope...very underrated
Supreme Clientel was never underrated
Immorablity was a huge let down imo
Bobby Digital--never bothered listening to it when it dropped
TIcal2000--never bothered listening to it back in 2000

 

[nieman]

Uncontrolled Substance is simply average. Tical 2000 is disappointing, as was Immobilarity. I still cant get into Beneath the Surface, and the less said about Redemption is best.
In Stereo is quite good...and Supreme Clientel is excellent.
And of course there' the excellent No Said Date which is better than 3 Mefs, 2 Raes, 2 Ueys, 2 RZAs, 1 Deck at that point.

 

[BuddahMAC]

I remember people were generally disappointed by the second round of Wu-Tang solo albums that came out from 1998-2000. I think the bar was set so high by the first round of solos that there was no way that the second round could live up to the hype and anticipation.

But in retrospect, I thought most of the releases were really solid, and I still listen to many of them frequently. It may not have been what we had hoped for, but I think the second round was underrated:

The first round were all arguably (and most undeniably) classic albums. The second round weren't classics (outside Supreme) but mostly very dope albums. Specifically:

Bobby Digital In Stereo
Issues: After years of producing classic albums for others and coming off his best year as a lyricist in 97, RZA drops a debut album as not The RZA with experimental beats and freestyling, so understandably people are let down.
Illness: When you go in knowing it's a freestyle album, you can have a lot more fun with it. The production, while a left turn from Wu you're used to, is still knocking. RZA's not at his peak but he's still spitting w/ the punch-ins and it just becomes another style like his 36 Chambers/6 Ft Deep more amped delivery. Also Wu & fam shine on it. Dope album.

T2000: Judgement Day
Issues: Those skits.
Illness: Everything else. I'd say the only other drawbacks are, besides the skits breaking up the flow, it plays more like a collection of songs than those RZA crafted albums and I really didn't feel the Sermon beats. Other than that, Meth kills it with tons of great beats & guests. Dope album.

Beneath the Surface
Issues: Out of place, needless skits again (and back to back skits, WTF?). And the production was definitely weaker than most Wu stuff at the time.
Illness: Weaker isn't necessarily bad though. I'd say Arabian Knight's stuff was average (and he did 5 of 13, Math's was good-great, John's was good, loved the RZA track & the title track is one of my favorite Deck's done. Plus everyone is spitting hard. Dope album.

N*gga Please
Issues: For those wanting a Wu album, it's half outside producers. For those wanting a Wu album, the only guest rhymes are Fam on their own ODB-less track. So what you get is a very ODB album. ODB as an artist is divisive and plenty of people who dug the overall Wu-ness of his debut moreso than Dirt himself might not dig this album.
Illness: If you're a fan of what ODB do tho, this album hits. It's as weird, wild and all over the place as Dirty's personality. I always found the Get Your Money single as the weakest song on the album and the Neptunes have the weakest production on the album but overall it ends up being a great showcase of Dirt being Dirt. Only other note is I wish they'd let Dirty sing the GMH cover solo, but the version as is fine. Enjoy the hell out of this whenever I play it. Dope album.

Blackout
Issues: Should have been a half Wu/half Def Squad collab album but it's mainly Meth on a Redman album w/ 4 Wu producer tracks. It's also getting into the era of Sermon making a bunch of similar, kind of bland beats, which is an issue when he does almost half the tracks & most of them are in a row to start the album. Album doesn't hit near its potential (actually l like Blackout 2 better as an album).
Illness: The Sermon cuts are still good enough and the other producers bring it (Run 4 Cover!) and Red & Meth bring it on the mics. Dope-ish album.

Uncontrolled Substance
Issues: Deck's ear for beats. Deck's beats on other projects (most of them in this group) are mostly better than the beats he saves for himself & he produced a 3rd of the album. Plus what he picked from the other producers (although there's heat on here). Also, Deck structuring his own verses/concepts isn't as strong as when he's sniping on group tracks 2 years earlier.
Illness: That said on the production, there's nothing wack on here. Some average, some good, some great w/ my favorite being the Pete Rock cut. And it's still Deck spitting. Good album.

Golden Arms Redemption
Issues: U-God.
Illness: Some beats & guests (Lethaface MVP). Not good album.

Immobilarity
Issues: You follow up a classic debut by eliminating the 2 most praised things about it: RZA & GFK. You give 1/3 to an average producer (Tryflin) & 1/3 to weak producers (Vo & Pop).
Illness: Inf Arc beats dope, 6 July nice, DJ Dev cool, & Pete Rock kilt it. And Rae is spitting. But the weaker production drags the albums down. Balances to a good album but the bad beats on here are probably the worst of this Wu run.

Supreme Clientele
Issues: None.
Illness: Classic album.

 

[nieman]

@BuddahMAC I agree with most of your breakdowns. I actually like Bobby Digital In Stereo (and Digital Bullet), going back to when they first came out. They only have a couple of experiments that did not work, which bring them down.

I really think Deck needed RZA for his first. Mind you, you recorded a lot in '97/'98 and it didn't come out til 99. Deck even thinks it came out in 97. But he needed help in song structure and formulating the album, which RZA could've assisted tremendously. His best project is still Cynthia's Son, which had a clear focus.

T2000 I think the problem with Meth for that album was trying to appease everyone. Was it supposed to be dark, glossy, pop, hip-hop, Wu, a rehash of the first, comedy. Ultimately, it ended up too skit heavy, no direction, and still was missing something.

 

[DaveyDave]

loved Bobby Digital since i copped it when it came out, but then again I've been a RZA fan since 36 Chambers and 6 Feet Deep, I like his MC style and flow.. It was different but a dope album IMO. Tical 2000 i never liked, even now every time i try to listen to it i just can't get into it I don't know what it is. The others in OP i've never really given a chance. Liquid Swords is the only GZA album i listen to, Immobilarity I should probably peep one of th4ese days and give Uncontrolled Substance a good listen. With all the classic music Wu gave us I just don't feel like wasting my time if it's not on that level.

 

[hex]

The biggest issue for me was they didn't use Rza for the full albums. Which is still to this day one of the dumbest decisions in rap history. You have one of the greatest producers in rap history, in his prime, coming off a historic run....and you don't use him. It's mind boggling.

Fred.

 

[mitter]

I had really high hopes for Immobilarity. After Cuban Linx, I thought of Rae as the "greedy" Wu member who would want all the best stuff for his album. Also, in late 98 there was a "In the lab" (I think that's what it was called) feature in The Source where Rae was saying "a lot of people consider Cuban Linx a classic, but this next album is going to be three classics in one"

And then in the summer of 99, I heard "Respect Power" on The Wake Up Show (I think). I absolutely loved it. Incredible song! (I don't know why Rae decided not to include it in Immobilarity). It made me anticipate the album even more..

 

[oO J Smooth Oo]

Ins and raekwon albums are extremely underrated

 

[mitter]

The biggest issue for me was they didn't use Rza for the full albums. Which is still to this day one of the dumbest decisions in rap history. You have one of the greatest producers in rap history, in his prime, coming off a historic run....and you don't use him. It's mind boggling.

Fred.

Sure, but RZA production at that time didn't guarantee a classic. Look at The W and Iron Flag. (I love both of those albums, but they were not classics.)

 

[hex]

Sure, but RZA production at that time didn't guarantee a classic. Look at The W and Iron Flag. (I love both of those albums, but they were not classics.)

Those albums came out in 2000 and 2001. Well after the first batch of Wu solos and Rza's run I'm referring to.

Which is another issue, they waited too long. There was 3-4 years between the first Wu solos and the 2nd albums.

Fred.