Income Inequality: Why the Economy Is Not Right for All Americans

[MMS]

There has never been a civilization in history where power and influence couldn't be bought.

That being said, It's not about figuring out some weird ratio of winners and losers. That's the wrong way of looking at it.

The key to making a more equitable economy (and society) is to focus on improving equality of opportunity.

Not equality of outcome, which you seem to think all left-leaning individuals want.

There reason why 1% of Americans own more than 50% of this nation's wealth is because they remove caps to their wealth-earning potential and limit economic opportunity for lower wage workers whenever possible. We do not have equality of opportunity in this country.

To base earning potential solely on "skill" or "effort" is to ignore the plain truth: many people don't earn more because they don't have the opportunity to earn more.

How do you define opportunity? Equity? Access to capital?

It's important to understand that cash isn't the most important thing when it comes to value creation. Earning potential is based on results.

A pizza place that makes shytty pizza gets shytty cashflow. On the flip side, someone who is about every aspect of the pizza experience is going to command raving fans and raving cashflow.

Too many people are looking for wealth in the wrong places. The top 1% don't "control wealth"... they have just amassed assets that make them essential to society because of their customer base as opposed to most people who simply will not survive without it (zero customers only employers)

Wealth is in the mind not in the pocket!

 

[Black Panther]

How do you define opportunity? Equity? Access to capital?

Opportunity relates to access to resources necessary to succeed, including (but not limited to): non-predatory lending options, educational resources, employment, adequate health care, cash, and varied potential business opportunities.

If you have all these resources and still fail, I can't feel sorry for you. :kanyebp:

But many Americans, and indeed many African Americans, don't have regular access to these things.

A pizza place that makes shytty pizza gets shytty cashflow. On the flip side, someone who is about every aspect of the pizza experience is going to command raving fans and raving cashflow.

Too many people are looking for wealth in the wrong places. The top 1% don't "control wealth"... they have just amassed assets that make them essential to society because of their customer base as opposed to most people who simply will not survive without it (zero customers only employers)

Wealth is in the mind not in the pocket!

There's not enough mind over matter to make me the next Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos.

Bezos went to Princeton, and Gates (briefly) went to Harvard. They came from fairly well-off families that had access to resources that made them successful.

There's isn't one person in the 1% who had to grind from nothing to be where they are. Stop advocating for a broken system.

 

[MMS]

Opportunity relates to access to resources necessary to succeed, including (but not limited to): non-predatory lending options, educational resources, employment, adequate health care, cash, and varied potential business opportunities.

If you have all these resources and still fail, I can't feel sorry for you. :kanyebp:

But many Americans, and indeed many African Americans, don't have regular access to these things.



There's not enough mind over matter to make me the next Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos.

Bezos went to Princeton, and Gates (briefly) went to Harvard. They came from fairly well-off families that had access to resources that made them successful.

There's isn't one person in the 1% who had to work hard to be where they are. Stop advocating for a broken system.

read what I said again. It isn't capital that made Microsoft. It was a quick decision to buy MS DOS from a pot head and put a fresh coat of paint on it (Windows 3.1)

look DEEPER. Value is not created purely with capital (it helps)

I come in contact with international owners every day now that comes from completely TERRIBLE situations that are far worse than what Americans face growing up yet still persevere! It has nothing to do with access to capital.

People (just like the pizza shop example) have to find a group of people (an avatar) that have a specific problem you can solve better than anyone else. If you do...wealth overflows in your direction.

Money and currency for that matter exist ONLY to transfer things of value (time, goods, etc).

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Didn't ignore it, I dapped it and replied "i see the problem as there is power to be bought" which I see as the underlying issue in each of your bullet points... and realized this part here summed it up.


We simply have to agree to disagree.
I don't believe their gain is another's loss. There's no fixed pie.

The conversation then swirved to unions.

There is a fixed pie of lots of things.

There is a fixed pie of land.

There is a fixed pie of political power.

There are huge numbers of high-level societal power positions (Ivy League seats, med school admittances, symphony orchestra seats, decision-making roles in the most powerful corporations, etc.) which are relatively static.


Black people are getting more income over time, but due to income inequality they're LOSING land in dramatic fashion. Black people are getting more income, but due to income inequality they're LOSING political power. Black people over the last decade or so have begun LOSING seats in elite colleges, LOSING seats in medical schools, and so on.

All the income in the world won't prevent those loses so long as there is drastic income inequality.

 

[DEAD7]

You ignored my response to this, though.

There’s never been a civilization where power and influence couldn’t be bought... what does this mean? Just accept it?
There’s never been a civilization where the ruling cast(cacs) has given up their dominance peacefully either...keep that same energy.


Government is in my opinion, the biggest obstacle in achieving equality of opportunity.
Excessive licensure
War on Drugs
Lousy public education
Nazi storm troopers(cops)
Ban on aptitude test
Minimum wage for workers under 25
Racist courts
Lousy healthcare


And there are progressive who in fact want equality of outcome.

 

[DEAD7]

All the income in the world won't prevent those loses so long as there is drastic income inequality.

Random thought: Seems like these losses move society further left... and our actually driving the progressive agenda. I would figure the left benefits from/wants the 99% to snap and reset the order of things.

To answer you, i dont believe those losses are truly avoidable, only slowed. They stem from(in my opinion) racism, and nothing more. No economic model or legislation can prevent cacs from fukking over nikkas in my opinion... but i respect the liberal effort to prove thats not true.

It’s interesting to hear people assert a fixed pie in regards to pay/cash while the fed is printing money and injecting it into the economy as we speak... maybe “fixed pie” doesn’t mean what i think it means

 

[Professor Emeritus]

It’s interesting to hear people assert a fixed pie in regards to pay/cash while the fed is printing money and injecting it into the economy as we speak... maybe “fixed pie” doesn’t mean what i think it means

I didn't say there was a fixed pie in regards to pay/cash. However, pay/cash is meaningless in itself, it only matters in what it can buy. And many things you buy ARE a fixed pie. This is why a trickle-down economy will never fly, no matter how much you pump the money supply.

In fact, the manner in which the fed prints money is of explicit design, to increase the power of the wealthy in regards to the less wealthy. You should really read the parable of The Eleventh Round.

 

[Rarely-Wrong Liggins]

What is an acceptable level of "income inequality"?

A former HL mod and poster of the year brehs.

 

[DEAD7]

A former HL mod and poster of the year brehs.

It’s a valid question

 

[afterlife2009]

Students who owe lunch money in Rhode Island will only get jelly sandwiches until debt is paid

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Opportunity relates to access to resources necessary to succeed, including (but not limited to): non-predatory lending options, educational resources, employment, adequate health care, cash, and varied potential business opportunities.

If you have all these resources and still fail, I can't feel sorry for you. :kanyebp:

But many Americans, and indeed many African Americans, don't have regular access to these things.



There's not enough mind over matter to make me the next Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos.

Bezos went to Princeton, and Gates (briefly) went to Harvard. They came from fairly well-off families that had access to resources that made them successful.

There's isn't one person in the 1% who had to grind from nothing to be where they are. Stop advocating for a broken system.

Something else about Gates - he was given extremely strong early exposure to computer programming from his childhood. Malcolm Gladwell covers this well in Outliers - Gates wasn't just in the top 1% in terms of computer access, he was quite likely in the top 0.00001% in terms of early access. He was able to flip that knowledge into some shady-ass business moves that took other people's work and captured all the market share, then used that monopoly power to build wealth. He just got there first, because he was put in a position to be there first. It is a perfect example.

How do you define opportunity? Equity? Access to capital?

It's important to understand that cash isn't the most important thing when it comes to value creation. Earning potential is based on results.

A pizza place that makes shytty pizza gets shytty cashflow.

You say this like Pizza Hut, Domino's, Little Caesars and Papa John's aren't the 4 biggest pizza chains in America.

PIZZA HUT is the biggest pizza chain in America. PIZZA HUT. Have you ever met anyone in your life who was willing to say, "Pizza Hut, now there's a quality food product."

McDonald's is the highest earning fast food restaurant in history. A place whose business plan is basically, "How much can we minimize the actual food content of our product and still get people to eat it?", with the constant question, "Hey, if we upped our marketing budget by 5%, could we get away with decreasing food content by another 10%?"

I mean, Del Taco has over $500 million in revenue a year. Has anyone ever actually enjoyed the taste of a Del Taco meal? I'm pretty sure I would rather eat half a head of lettuce and then throw up in my mouth than eat another taco from Del Taco.

But of course, the lord of quality products, WalMart, stands above them all. WalMart. The most powerful store in America pushes among the least quality products in America.

In fact, the fact that there are threads about Trump's wealth active at the very moment you spout this bullshyt. Has anyone created more companies selling more useless products than Trump? And yet look at him.

Wealth in American society is not primarily about value creation, otherwise the wealthiest business owners would produce a hell of a lot more valuable products. Wealth is about being in a position (usually via capital and social connections) to control a certain amount of market share, and then leveraging that power with the right marketing (and sometimes the right political connections) to dominate your rivals. Without the right social connections, without the right capital, without the ability to leverage market share, you can make the best pizza/burger/grocery products on the block and the power players could still bankrupt you without breaking a sweat.

 

[MMS]

Something else about Gates - he was given extremely strong early exposure to computer programming from his childhood. Malcolm Gladwell covers this well in Outliers - Gates wasn't just in the top 1% in terms of computer access, he was quite likely in the top 0.00001% in terms of early access. He was able to flip that knowledge into some shady-ass business moves that took other people's work and captured all the market share, then used that monopoly power to build wealth. He just got there first, because he was put in a position to be there first. It is a perfect example.






You say this like Pizza Hut, Domino's, Little Caesars and Papa John's aren't the 4 biggest pizza chains in America.

PIZZA HUT is the biggest pizza chain in America. PIZZA HUT. Have you ever met anyone in your life who was willing to say, "Pizza Hut, now there's a quality food product."

McDonald's is the highest earning fast food restaurant in history. A place whose business plan is basically, "How much can we minimize the actual food content of our product and still get people to eat it?", with the constant question, "Hey, if we upped our marketing budget by 5%, could we get away with decreasing food content by another 10%?"

I mean, Del Taco has over $500 million in revenue a year. Has anyone ever actually enjoyed the taste of a Del Taco meal? I'm pretty sure I would rather eat half a head of lettuce and then throw up in my mouth than eat another taco from Del Taco.

But of course, the lord of quality products, WalMart, stands above them all. WalMart. The most powerful store in America pushes among the least quality products in America.

In fact, the fact that there are threads about Trump's wealth active at the very moment you spout this bullshyt. Has anyone created more companies selling more useless products than Trump? And yet look at him.

Wealth in American society is not primarily about value creation, otherwise the wealthiest business owners would produce a hell of a lot more valuable products. Wealth is about being in a position (usually via capital and social connections) to control a certain amount of market share, and then leveraging that power with the right marketing (and sometimes the right political connections) to dominate your rivals. Without the right social connections, without the right capital, without the ability to leverage market share, you can make the best pizza/burger/grocery products on the block and the power players could still bankrupt you without breaking a sweat.

wrong wrong and more wrong!

All of those chains DONT SELL QUALITY! THEY SELL CONVENIENCE!

And Americans ROUTINELY and REPEATEDLY choose convenience over quality every day (especially with food)

there are plenty of opportunities to make quality food and turn a profit. Just don't expect the volume of those who sell convenience!

Your ideas of how money are made are why you aren't seeing it. There are so many businesses involved with delivering the "value" that larger chains provide. It's hard to step outside of the box to see it but it isnt nearly as cut and dry as you're painting it

 

[afterlife2009]

 

[TELL ME YA CHEESIN FAM?]

How much more should someone highly skilled be allowed to make than someone unskilled? and how did you settle on whatever amount you decide?

 

[JLova]

I believe the market should decide... or to put it another way, as much as they can negotiate for.
I feel this way all the way up the latter. If a CEO can negotiate a trillion dollar salary, good for him.


But what's an acceptable amount of inequality to liberals? how is it decided? and by whom?
Surely no one thinks surgeons should be paid the exact same as fast food workers...

But the market is manipulated and that is the problem. We don’t even know the true value of anything anymore since all markets get manipulated now. Housing market is one example of that.