is big punisher better then nas technically speaking

[LiveFromLondon]

is this post about pun ? or biggie

Christopher

 

[ThirdAct]

Nas fans are a strange bunch, in fact all this "stanning" in hip hop circles is just crazy . On his day Nas is the greatest mc of all time, from the flow, wordplay, double to triple entandres, historical and hood references all wrapped up in the most mellow smooth delivery. It's really something to behold. Big Pun posses the exact same ability. It's just that nas is a Saxophone and Pun is drums or electric guitar. This is a very daft argument to have. it's like arguing who plays betteir guitar George Benson or Earl Klugh. It comes down taste coz both are straight genius , even though playing vastly different guitar's and styles on the opposite end of the spectrum. Personally I've always been a sucker for high energy thugged out street savvy lyricists like Redman, Big L,Pun, Busta Rhymes etc.

But I still recognise the smooth assassins like Raking, Nas, "In my lifetime " Jay Z,Black Thought, AZ,O.C , Ras Kass etc.

It comes down to taste. These type of threads on a surface level look or seem like "Real Hip Hop" healthy discussions. But it shows a deep lack of understanding of artistic expression. Also I'm South African , I've always found it strange that white society is always trying to quantify and grade absolutely everything. "Top 5 rappers. Top 10 hip hop verses. Top 5 90s rappers". That sounds so out of touch to me. I can name you at least 50 MCs off the top of my head who are the GOAT on their best day.

Lastly imagine someone arguing about Miles Davis vs John Coltrane on the Kinda Blue LP circa 1959. I'd consider them crazy. Peace

You make some good points. There's different facets to hip-hop artistry that create a gray area. And like anything, there's always a gray area..

But, on the other hand...

Hip hop is a competitive sport and always will be. And when it comes to be a competitive sport, there's gotta be a best.

 

[Red]

I love pun but any debate about the technical aspect of his rhyming has to be weighted against the fact he used a lot of punch-in's

 

[Cape Town JHB]

You make some good points. There's different facets to hip-hop artistry that create a gray area. And like anything, there's always a gray area..

But, on the other hand...

Hip hop is a competitive sport and always will be. And when it comes to be a competitive sport, there's gotta be a best.

yes hip hop is competitive. Sports can be quantified by how many yards you gained or how fast you run or how many points you score which leads to Championships. now addressing the grey area part ,we are not talking about Drake or someone basic here. You guys are quite literally arguing about the greatest MCs to ever rhyme words together. that is a massive undertaking. this is why I tried to describe briefly that Nas is a genius. but Pun is a genius too. I can't say which genius is better,coz at that level it boils down to indivvidual taste. there's no wrong answer , Pun's verse on John Blaze is probably the very limits of lyricism.
I feel like a lot of stans have a very hard time admitting that their hero on this particular song was 2nd best.
This happens a lot in Battle Rap where 2 Top tier guys battle and one of them is on form that night and people get into very similar arguments.

 

[Cape Town JHB]

In Hip Hop we should just create a list of say 100 MCs that we all admit on their day can kill anyone. Royce Da 5'9" could kill Black Thought on his day. I remember OC sounding better than Big L on one of their songs in 97. It happens. Also dead rappers get extremely overrated, example, I've been telling people for years that if you gave Crag Mack a beat that really suits him(Rashad Smith, Easy Mo Bee) he sounds better than Biggie at times on his day. Now that he died everyone agrees kinda. There's always a deceased person biased that we have to factor in. When you argue about a deceased MC there's usually too many emotions involved. With that said Pun and Big L are the best deceased MCs I've ever heard. Black Thought is the best rapper alive and has been so for almost a decade.
Now bring it Escobar stans

 

[ThirdAct]

yes hip hop is competitive. Sports can be quantified by how many yards you gained or how fast you run or how many points you score which leads to Championships. now addressing the grey area part ,we are not talking about Drake or someone basic here. You guys are quite literally arguing about the greatest MCs to ever rhyme words together. that is a massive undertaking. this is why I tried to describe briefly that Nas is a genius. but Pun is a genius too. I can't say which genius is better,coz at that level it boils down to indivvidual taste. there's no wrong answer , Pun's verse on John Blaze is probably the very limits of lyricism.
I feel like a lot of stans have a very hard time admitting that their hero on this particular song was 2nd best.
This happens a lot in Battle Rap where 2 Top tier guys battle and one of them is on form that night and people get into very similar arguments.

You're contradicting yourself a bit here, lol. You say that it's a massive undertaking to compare them cuz they are both geniuses and there's no wrong answer...but then you hint that you favor Pun's verse over Nas verse and Nas fans who think differently are stans. Which is cool, BTW, cuz it's all just opinion at the end of the day anyway. Personally, I think John Blaze was a three way tie between Pun, Esco and Rae, who's verse is hella underrated. Hell, even Joe came kinda hard.

Outside of John Blaze tho, I still think Nas is a more well-rounded artist than Pun. It's a little bit of an unfair comparison cuz Pun's career was so short, but Illmatic and It Was Written is a better 1-2 combo than Capital Punishment and Yeeeah Baby...and Capital Punishment is a near classic.

 

[Cape Town JHB]

P

You're contradicting yourself a bit here, lol. You say that it's a massive undertaking to compare them cuz they are both geniuses and there's no wrong answer...but then you hint that you favor Pun's verse over Nas verse and Nas fans who think differently are stans. Which is cool, BTW, cuz it's all just opinion at the end of the day anyway. Personally, I think John Blaze was a three way tie between Pun, Esco and Rae, who's verse is hella underrated. Hell, even Joe came kinda hard.

Outside of John Blaze tho, I still think Nas is a more well-rounded artist than Pun. It's a little bit of an unfair comparison cuz Pun's career was so short, but Illmatic and It Was Written is a better 1-2 combo than Capital Punishment and Yeeeah Baby...and Capital Punishment is a near classic.

I don't buy that "classic album" talk though. Illmatic is a great album for its time. But if you look at all the producers on there , L.E.S came with the hardest beat. Premo and Pete Rock had harder beats in 93/4 and didn't give it to Nas, shyt the stuff Pete Rock gave AZ would've gone way harder on illmatic. Also many years ago I heard Nas' unreleased tracks compilation album and realised the best material from him had not even been released, so I stopped judging cats based of body of work and all that. I just ask myself is this person nicer?

Here's what's even crazier, I'm actually a bigger fan of West Coast /Deathrow era than anything that ever happened in the East or any era Hip Hop purely for the production value alone.

 

[GPBear]

No, he’s fukking trash.
“Breath control” is part of the “technical” parts of the craft, and the dude sounded like a pug with sleep apnea. fukking had to work around his morbid obesity

Just because he has one of those coked-out fit-as-many-words-as-possible flows some brehs think he’s nice. Same with Eminem

On top of all this, he was a shytty human being in general and terrible father who’d abuse his wife and children.
You should be smacked for this

 

[ThirdAct]

P


I don't buy that "classic album" talk though. Illmatic is a great album for its time. But if you look at all the producers on there , L.E.S came with the hardest beat. Premo and Pete Rock had harder beats in 93/4 and didn't give it to Nas, shyt the stuff Pete Rock gave AZ would've gone way harder on illmatic. Also many years ago I heard Nas' unreleased tracks compilation album and realised the best material from him had not even been released, so I stopped judging cats based of body of work and all that. I just ask myself is this person nicer?

Here's what's even crazier, I'm actually a bigger fan of West Coast /Deathrow era than anything that ever happened in the East or any era Hip Hop purely for the production value alone.

Can't agree with the first paragraph at all cuz Memory Lane is possibly my favorite beat of all time and TWIY beat is timeless. To each their own tho lol. Second paragraph isn't crazy at all, everyone has their own personal tastes.

 

[Cape Town JHB]

Can't agree with the first paragraph at all cuz Memory Lane is possibly my favorite beat of all time and TWIY beat is timeless. To each their own tho lol. Second paragraph isn't crazy at all, everyone has their own personal tastes.

What if Premo had given Nas the beats he hooked Group Home with and Pete Rock hooked up the Main Ingredient beats. as good as memory lane and who's world is this , Pete and Preem had far more fire in their Arsenal. My theory is that Nas a super lyrical genius but a nobody nonetheless. Look how Pete Rock booked BIG L up with Holding It Down beat AFTER he died.

 

[ThirdAct]

What if Premo had given Nas the beats he hooked Group Home with and Pete Rock hooked up the Main Ingredient beats. as good as memory lane and who's world is this , Pete and Preem had far more fire in their Arsenal. My theory is that Nas a super lyrical genius but a nobody nonetheless. Look how Pete Rock booked BIG L up with Holding It Down beat AFTER he died.

Well, yeah, always wanna hear a good rapper over good beats. I always thought that Group Home Getaway Car beat woulda fit Nas like a glove. It's clear Nas wanted to branch out of the Illmatic wheelhouse producer wise on IWW and his subsequent albums and there's been mixed results because of it. Take IWW, for instance. I don't blame him getting a Dre beat, because who the fukk wouldn't wanna work with Dre. But then Nas Is Coming ended up being the worst beat on the album lol. And not sure what you're gettin at the with the nobody part. Beats are important, but it ain't SOLELY about beats either.

 

[WaveMolecules]

this trash disqualifies him from ANY goat lists


and i LOVED capital punishment

 

[Curioser]

There is no one better than 1994 Nas technically