Is Foxy Brown's influence/legacy/body of work being unfairly downplayed because of Lil' Kim?

[spliz]

Great, you were in NY, a place more closely tied to both, so maybe y’all viewed these chicks as neck and neck since you were so vested in them. I’m on the west coast and I can tell you Kim’s influence was bigger than music breh. Like I said, foxy put us on game the same way Kim did, but bytches wanted to be Kim. Dudes out here gave Kim more love, from who they played to who they wanted to smash.

No one is arguing that they weren’t peers, yes, for a moment it was Kim and fox and then everyone else. yet even so, Kim outpaced foxy. Legacy and impact is something that has to be looked at when all is said and done, it’s the reason people look stupid having legacy arguments about athletes when they’re in their prime cuz you don’t know where they’re going to end up. Kim’s prime lasted longer than fox, and her career and impact was bigger than foxy’s, and this was by their second albums. Chyna doll was a dud commercially while notorious KIM was a success. Then add on how hard fox screwed herself over industry wise, it’s not hard to see how and why Kim’s legacy is bigger.

Like I said. I never said Lil Kim didnt outpace Foxy in the long run. But dont think that’s all due to her. She benefited from Biggie’s death and thats a fact. Im not talking about OVERALL career cause we all know how it turned out. But for one. Chyna Doll wasnt a commercial dud. The album sold. And it was number one. And dont hit me wit that “everybody went platinum” bs excuse either. Foxy def fukked her own career over wit her attitude. There’s no question about that. But lets talk about how Kim bit Foxy’s steez on Lighters Up after Foxy already did that whole swag and BETTER on Broken Silence. Regardless this thread is talking about how Foxy is forgotten about when it comes to legacy and what she brought to the game and how all the credit goes to Kim. Which IS a rewriting of history. Foxy had a big part in the shyt Kim gets full credit for. U cant just count her out cause Kim lasted longer and u cant just act like she was never anywhere near Kim’s level. Imagine nikkas saying Lauryn Hill wasnt influential cause she only dropped one album and only had a 3 year run tops. nikkas need to stop bullshyttin and start telling our hip hop history correctly.

 

[spliz]

Lil Kim was better at everything, n I love foxy

Nope. Foxy had a better voice and flow. And chewed Kim on wax.

 

[eastside313]

She def got some influence from kim no denying .
But their rapping styles aren't really the same .
Nicki is right foxy flows are amazing . Foxy can get on any beat and kill it . Plus that whole Caribbean connection . Y'all gotta look at nicki around the Gaga time too . She really was influenced by her as well . Some of those wild hair dues are because of Gaga .

the Gaga chit was when she was wearing all those dumb ass outfits trying to cross over. She realized nobody cared for that pulled them cheeks out.

 

[patscorpio]

It sold pretty much off of the hype and Foxy's brand at the time, but truth be told a lot of nikkas weren't feeling that album like that. Even the singles were weak. nikkas weren't out there bumping Hot Spot.

This in turn is what made Broken Silence so dope, because it was Foxy's return from the bushes and she was on fire.

I was always said the second album low key finished foxy..although did fukk with some of those joints...broken silence was dope but foxy's issues sabotaged it

 

[LauderdaleBoss]

I was always said the second album low key finished foxy..although did fukk with some of those joints...broken silence was dope but foxy's issues sabotaged it

Word

even if you think Lil Kim never dropped something as dope as Broken Silence, she never dropped anything as weak as Chyna Doll. That album came and went.

Foxy career would prolly be different if Broken Silence was her sophomore project instead of her third.

 

[Petty Crocker]

@dora_da_destroyer
you consistently provide the female perspective that Im always thinking but never feel compelled enough to post, and for that I you.

Foxy was cool, but Kim had a better impact across the board.
Kim's La Belle Mafia and Naked Truth were REALLY good projects..her contribution to fashion/hip hop culture, and features helped solidify Kim's legacy, in my opinion.

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

surprised nobody mentioned that even foxy changed her voice up to try and sound like kim...... then puff hit her with that "stop trying to sound like her too bytches" then we got bang bang, but foxy back in her original voice


so maybe nicki was following foxy by biting kim

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Like I said. I never said Lil Kim didnt outpace Foxy in the long run. But dont think that’s all due to her. She benefited from Biggie’s death and thats a fact. Im not talking about OVERALL career cause we all know how it turned out. But for one. Chyna Doll wasnt a commercial dud. The album sold. And it was number one. And dont hit me wit that “everybody went platinum” bs excuse either. Foxy def fukked her own career over wit her attitude. There’s no question about that. But lets talk about how Kim bit Foxy’s steez on Lighters Up after Foxy already did that whole swag and BETTER on Broken Silence. Regardless this thread is talking about how Foxy is forgotten about when it comes to legacy and what she brought to the game and how all the credit goes to Kim. Which IS a rewriting of history. Foxy had a big part in the shyt Kim gets full credit for. U cant just count her out cause Kim lasted longer and u cant just act like she was never anywhere near Kim’s level. Imagine nikkas saying Lauryn Hill wasnt influential cause she only dropped one album and only had a 3 year run tops. nikkas need to stop bullshyttin and start telling our hip hop history correctly.

You're overplaying the impact of biggie's death on Kim's career. Especially out here where we were still mourning pac. People clearly saw the lyrical drop off of Notorious KIM, since big wasn't writing for her, yet she still found a way to overcome no longer having him as a resource.

As for chyna doll, other posters - as well as insiders at def jam, the link I posted - have corroborated my point. Yes, it sold cuz everything sold off gp back then, that album did not have impact or legs. How often is anything from that album played? I don't think I've heard "I can't" or "hot spot" since 2001.

No one is counting out or forgetting foxy, but you can't seem to comprehend that kim simply finished with a bigger, stronger legacy. To admit that doesn't negate what fox did do or accomplish. Jordan clearly had the biggest legacy in hoop from the 90's, that doesn't mean that Barkley, Olajuwon, Ewing, Malone don't matter and didn't contribute, but in retrospect, their career and impact is simply not the same level as him. Same thing here, trying to extrapolate fox being 1a or 1b to kim (musically) from 95-99 into her overall legacy doesn't work. The thread asks is foxys career is downplayed because of kim, no, it's not, when I look back, fox is given her just due, but she doesn't have as big of a legacy and that's why she's talked about less.

 

[kingofnyc]

This may or not come off as by some people. But I don't really give a shyt

This hit me while I was reading the thread about Nicki crying about Cardi not paying homage to her, and people bringing up how she didn't pay homage to Lil' Kim coming up. And it made me think well what about Foxy

Nicki has always showed loved and paid homage to Foxy, she always said Foxy was her idol. But yet everybody is so quick to attach her style to Kim and leave Foxy in the dust like she's a nobody. Really downplaying her unfairly. Especially since her and Kim came out at the same time and were in the same lane doing the same things.

And I'm sure some people will say, "well Kim was bigger than Foxy!". Yes that is true and I will not dispute that. However, even though Kim was bigger, Foxy had quite a career herself in and had her own respective success. She had 2 #1 albums and her own hits. I personally grew up listening to/hearing more of Foxy than Kim ()

Foxy was 1b to Kim's 1a, or at the very least a close #2. The difference between the 2 was marginal IMO. It wasn't wide enough to the point that it wasn't out of the realm of possibility that somebody (especially a young girl like Nicki at the time) could have preferred and been more influenced by Foxy.

But because Kim has more pop culture appeal and her name has stood the test of time (thanks in large part to Biggie), she's given all the credit/glory while Foxy's role has been minimized. Almost like history has been rewritten and Foxy's been left out in the dust :ohwelp:

I'll even compare it to basketball. I'll use my own personal views as an example. I'm 28. Like hip-hop, I grew up watching sports at a young age (96). Really started messing with it heavier a couple year after Jordan and the Bulls. My favorite player was and always will be Vince Carter. At the time, Vince was that dude. Now imagine if an NBA player age came out saying he idolized Vince (or even T-Mac) over Kobe Bryant. Dudes would look at you like Simply because Vince fell off and Kobe stood the test of time, surpassing all his peers. But it downplays the what guys like Vince, Iverson, and T-Mac were doing at the time.

What's your take on this

your Vince Carter Kobe Bryant analogy is pretty interesting but I’m a tell you the reason that foxy Brown is Vince Carter while lil Kim is Kobe Bryant... it is simply because Kobe/Kim

1. won several championships
2. on the marquee franchise/label
3. and was the face of their genre

 

[50CentStan]

foxy 16 with a pedo jigga funny how everyone overlooks that...

 

[CoCKy GeNiuS]

Them two "Touch me tease me" verses are classics.

 

[kingofnyc]

Like I said. I never said Lil Kim didnt outpace Foxy in the long run. But dont think that’s all due to her. She benefited from Biggie’s death and thats a fact. Im not talking about OVERALL career cause we all know how it turned out. But for one. Chyna Doll wasnt a commercial dud. The album sold. And it was number one. And dont hit me wit that “everybody went platinum” bs excuse either. Foxy def fukked her own career over wit her attitude. There’s no question about that. But lets talk about how Kim bit Foxy’s steez on Lighters Up after Foxy already did that whole swag and BETTER on Broken Silence. Regardless this thread is talking about how Foxy is forgotten about when it comes to legacy and what she brought to the game and how all the credit goes to Kim. Which IS a rewriting of history. Foxy had a big part in the shyt Kim gets full credit for. U cant just count her out cause Kim lasted longer and u cant just act like she was never anywhere near Kim’s level. Imagine nikkas saying Lauryn Hill wasnt influential cause she only dropped one album and only had a 3 year run tops. nikkas need to stop bullshyttin and start telling our hip hop history correctly.

who are these people whom have forgotten Foxy ? Kim was da face of the female rapper back then !
so, i don’t understand your rewriting history statement


i mean... A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Jungle Brothers etc... were all part of that Afrocentric movement in da late 80’s / early 90s
BUT
Tribe was considered better & gets the crown for being the face of that whole movement - it’s da same with Kim, Foxy, Brat etc....

 

[mson]

I'm with the 1A & 1 B argument. Always saw them pretty much neck and neck.

 

[King P]

who are these people whom have forgotten Foxy ? Kim was da face of the female rapper back then !
so, i don’t understand your rewriting history statement


i mean... A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Jungle Brothers etc... were all part of that Afrocentric movement in da late 80’s / early 90s
BUT
Tribe was considered better & gets the crown for being the face of that whole movement - it’s da same with Kim, Foxy, Brat etc....

People are forgetting Foxy when they are trying to give Kim all the credit for Nicki Minaj's style when Nicki has said for the longest time (ever since she came up) that Foxy is her idol and biggest influence.

Is it that hard to believe that somebody would prefer Foxy over Kim? And that's what I'm saying when I say Foxy's being completely downplayed

 

[Marlo Barksdale]

Foxy started strong with the features but she never delivered with her singles or albums. "No Time" and "Crush On You" solidified Kim with album songs like songs like "Big Mama Thang" and "Queen B@#$h" being street hits. Add in "Not Tonight (Ladies Night Remix)" and Kim blew Fox out the water. That's not even adding her iconic features like "Benjamin's."

Try to name the singles off of Foxy's first 2 albums and try to remember the last time you heard them.
Foxy looked better but her singles weren't good and definitely didn't age well.

Go back and look at Foxy's discography and try to find any song that she could do right now and have a crowd sing. Yungins still know Kim.

A Foxy set is only gonna be known by die-hard fans. What song could she come out to really?

A Kim set is gonna ring off anywhere still. Fox just didn't deliver and her attitude was the nail in the coffin. Foxy was the better rapper but Kim made the better songs and hits.