Is God selfish? How come He demands constant praise and worship while not doing anything for us

Elle Seven

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I sometimes wonder if the question about whether God exists and/or cares only comes into question when the perspective the asker is taking is one of anthropocentrism.

From that perspective, it would be easy to query whether the Creator truly cares about humanity. If we take one that is more holistic, though, perhaps the question changes...

For example, there is a post in here about someone's child being killed by a wolf if s/he leaves him/her in the woods; I think the implication may have been if this happens, there is no God (as God did not protect the child from the wolf). To whomever posted that initially, I apologize if I misinterpreted your words. Nonetheless, it presents an interesting issue which is worth pondering. In this hypothetical situation, if the wolf kills the human child and eats him to sate his appetite, does this prove there is no God? After all, wolves, as I understand it, are carnivorous and, thus, seek flesh to consume. Humans would mourn the death of a child who met her end in the jaws of a wolf, no doubt...any child who dies so helplessly, honestly. Yet, would they mourn for, say, a fawn who met her end in that same way? A baby rabbit? I mean, when the average person sees dead baby deer on the side of the road (or maybe that sight is just common where I am), is it likely s/he feels sorrow in any degree? Perhaps not, and that makes sense, as we are not related to wildlife and, honestly, as humans, we eat both as well.

However, when the wolf kills these creatures, do we then attribute that to the absence of God? After all, the ego-less canine is literally only acting in alignment with his nature and instinct, all embedded within him through his genetic heritage. That being said, a deeper question would be why are there certain animals even created or those which eventually evolve to survive off the flesh of other animals at all. Why is there a system on this planet where one must kill and consume another in order to sustain his own life? This, I think, would lend a deeper, more uncomfortable and unconventional view of how God "is".

Then again, that question might not be as simple. The coloring of the answer might be different, depending on how the asker feels about death or what s/he even deems to be alive in the first place. For instance, while the wolf might kill a fawn and eat it, the fawn only needs to eat greenery to sustain its life. It does not need to draw blood from another animal but, still, it must take life from vegetation, which was once rooted and growing from the soil...is this problematic as well, or does it not count because blood was not involved? Is the life of flora to be just as valued as that of fauna? When people cut their grass, do they care how it makes the grass feel...or do we see plant life as a less intelligent and aware as animal life? In the end, the fawn still had to take its life from flora, as a predator then took its life for the same reason. There are just so many ways to look at it, I think.

As humans, we kill what we like and eat it and most of us do not question it. I mean, is it common to cry over the slab of steak or rack of ribs on our plates when we get that pleasure? Do we stop to think about the mother cow or mother pig which was slain to give us those delicious cuts of meat or the likely children they likely left behind? Probably not. Ironically, though, we will say Grace and thank the Creator for providing us with the remnants of the cow and pig which was once living...as if we were the one's who put in the actual work of slaughtering the animal and fabricating its corpse. Do we look at our actions against other animals and then ask, if there is a God, why does It allow us to act this way...or do we only ask this question when natural circumstances of life come to affect us personally in a negative way?

There is a guru I saw on YouTube (his name escapes me) who, to paraphrase him, asserts many of the ills of mankind cannot be cured...not totally, until we start to have regard for all life, not just human life. So, for example, while we may decry abuse against certain groups within the human race, as long as we still hold, in our psyches, that, collectively, some lives are worth more respect than others, we are still missing it.

So long as we see all that happens in life through the prism of the left and not the right, I think we will always have these types of questions about the nature of the Creator.
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Cyrus' Wife

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What about those who didn't wake up with a roof over their heads, or food to eat? Those with incurable diseases...should they be grateful that God has blessed them with another day of suffering?

Good question. I've been homeless and starving and I was still thankful to God for another day. I have a friend who is a paraplegic and is still grateful to God for another day. God will always help us even if it is just giving us hope or encouragement to keep fighting another day. Earthly life is short and eternal life is what our eyes are fixed upon.
 

Scustin Bieburr

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God is keeping this whole thing from imploding on itself. I think God is doing enough for you.


I find it strange that people are still debating about God, when it is stated constantly in religious texts that God is a being that exists beyond the limits of human understanding. God is an entity that we just aren't built to perceive. We can perceive the effects of an intelligent being, but not observe the being itself.

Its like trying to explain the concept of color or better yet--race to someone who was born blind. That person can feel the slant of an Asian person's eyes, or the curl of a black person's hair, but they cannot physically see the different people. The blind white man sees the effects of racism, but is unable to actually understand it in the same way as people who were born with sight.

I imagine God exists in a 5th or 6th dimension where concepts like time, life, cause and effect are utterly meaningless concepts. Time doesn't exist in and of itself, nor does determinism. These are not self evident concepts, rather, they are things we have created to help us understand a world of immense complexity.
 
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Cyrus' Wife

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then from whence comes evil?"

The Problem of Evil is basically the premise of this thread. Y'all are doing a terrible job of explaining away the inherent holes in the "merciful loving God" narrative.


This is a good point, but I can be a merciful, loving person and still allow suffering for a greater good/big picture.

Example: Say I have a small child and I love this child with everything I've got. Then I find out my child has Cancer and needs chemo right away. The chemo makes my child terribly sick every time it is given. It is painful for my child and my child suffers going through it every time.

Say someone sees my child throwing up every week and - without knowing the entire circumstance/big picture behind it - comes over yelling to me that I must be a terrible, unloving, unmerciful mother to simply stand by and watch my child violently throwing up every week.

But am I really an unloving, unmerciful person? After all, I see the big picture and I am allowing my child to temporarily suffer so that they can live a better life literally in the long-run.

This is how God is. He sees the big picture of our lives and knows what is best for our lives...not just our earthly (short) lives but our long (eternal) lives.
 

Prince.Skeletor

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OP woke up alive and well this morning and Hopped on his smart phone just to say God never did anything for anyone.


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that's a ridiculous argument lol
You are equating a non-event and a divine event
That means you are saying absolutely nothing hapenning is the same as the highest event possible as it is divine.

So all the people that died this morning or know they only have a few days should be atheists?
 

Mr Rager

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I sometimes wonder if the question about whether God exists and/or cares only comes into question when the perspective the asker is taking is one of anthropocentrism.

They are, and that is a very important observation. A lot of the explanations for and against "God" in this thread are predicated as the human experience being the ultimate benchmark on how loving or not "God" is.
 

Mr Rager

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Right, blood atonement is the only way.

Personally, I'm glad this is the case. There is a big difference between someone just saying to me "I love you" (anybody can say that flippantly) as opposed to someone who says "I love you so much that I will prove it by sacrificing my blood for you. In fact ALL of my blood for you." The difference is monumental to me. The act of actually DEMONSTRATING love and forgiveness by the shedding of blood and the sacrifice of a person's life is amazing. There is no greater way to demonstrate love than that and that is why God required it. This is how much He loves us and wants a relationship with us.

This is lunatic talk.
God creates man but "requires" a blood sacrifice to bring his creation closer to him?
And who, pray tell, determined what God wants????
 

Cyrus' Wife

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This is lunatic talk.
God creates man but "requires" a blood sacrifice to bring his creation closer to him?
And who, pray tell, determined what God wants????

I respect the fact that you disagree but there is no greater way to show someone you love them than to a.) be willing to die for them and b.) actually do it.

God did not have to prove His love for us in this extreme of a way, but the fact that He did shows how great His love for us is.
 

Prince.Skeletor

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Reading the comments you can see why God threads never concludes well.
It's because people bring up religion.
Religion is the biggest reason why people can't have a meaningful talk about god.
They just going to read scriptures and old biblical texts written by a british king at the beggining of when the british empire ended
 

kevm3

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Without law you have chaos and without penalties, the law is meaningless. If there was no life in prison or death penalty for murder, how much higher would the murder rate be? If you never got written up and still got paid when you didn't show up to work, would you go? There's a reason there is penalty for sin. Sin is transgressions against God's rules. God sent Jesus to pay that penalty for our sins, and yet many willingly choose not to accept that and hence face the penalty.

In regards to that question of God knowing what Satan would do, God gave us free will. God attempted to guide creation into the right path and yet some made the choice to rebel. Just like you have an idea of what someone is about to do because you know their personality, God is no different. He gave Satan free will and through his infinite knowledge, yes, he could sense what Satan was going to do, but given free will, he let Satan and those who chose to side with him mark their own path. Why didn't God tailor everyone and everything to this or that specific image/ Because there would be no free choice. That would be robotic.
 

Cyrus' Wife

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I find it strange that people are still debating about God, when it is stated constantly in religious texts that God is a being that exists beyond the limits of human understanding. God is an entity that we just aren't built to perceive. We can perceive the effects of an intelligent being, but not observe the being itself.

Its like trying to explain the concept of color or better yet--race to someone who was born blind. That person can feel the slant of an Asian person's eyes, or the curl of a black person's hair, but they cannot physically see the different people. The blind white man sees the effects of racism, but is unable to actually understand it in the same way as people who were born with sight.

I imagine God exists in a 5th or 6th dimension where concepts like time, life, cause and effect are utterly meaningless concepts. Time doesn't exist in and of itself, nor does determinism. These are not self evident concepts, rather, they are things we have created to help us understand a world of immense complexity.


To me, God Himself is able to be perceived and understood and He actually wants that and (in my experience), the closer you get to Him and the more you seek Him, the more He reveals about Himself.

I do think you're right about Him using certain things that exist within the complexities of quantum mechanics (such as time, multiple dimensions, the spiritual realm, properties of spiritual and heavenly "bodies" and beings such as nephilim, angels, archangels, cherubim, seraphim, etcetera) but overall I think God is knowable and Him allowing Jesus to come in human form is an example of that. Him coming to earth was His way of relating to us literally in a physical knowable way because we got to see that He could be fun (turning water into wine!), empathetic (crying over Lazarus' death), generous (healing many people, providing food for great mutltitudes of people) and even funny (cursing a fig tree!) in addition to being a living sacrifice for us and loving and merciful and holy. He wants us to get to know Him personally and if we seek Him, He will allow us to come closer to Him and better understand who He is and how much He loves and cares for us. All we have to do is believe in Him and invite Him into our life. (Romans 10:9-10)
 

Cyrus' Wife

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Reading the comments you can see why God threads never concludes well.
It's because people bring up religion.
Religion is the biggest reason why people can't have a meaningful talk about god.
They just going to read scriptures and old biblical texts written by a british king at the beggining of when the british empire ended

True.

God is much more interested in us having a personal relationship with Him vs. being religious.
 

Prince.Skeletor

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True.

God is much more interested in us having a personal relationship with Him vs. being religious.

I never said that, and also that's very untrue.

A relationship is a two way street
What you are referring to is very much just a one-way street
That's not a relationship.

That's an ex girlfriend keep calling someone who has her number on block, also he may not exist
 

MMS

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And the Devil thinks for himself, questions authority, and believes in the power of individuality. :sas1:

The Epistle to the Galatians 5:13-26

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh[a]; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want.

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;

20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions

21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,

23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

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Cyrus' Wife

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I never said that, and also that's very untrue.

A relationship is a two way street
What you are referring to is very much just a one-way street
That's not a relationship.

That's an ex girlfriend keep calling someone who has her number on block, also he may not exist

My true reponse is referring to "religion is the biggest reason why people can't have a meaningful talk about God."

You're right though about a relationship being a two-way street. However even though we may reject God/refuse to believe He exists, He still stands at the door of our hearts and knocks. Many choose not to let Him in or to hear the hard knocks so-to-speak, but He is still there waiting to be invited in. That's good news.

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful." -2 Timothy 2:13
 
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