Is Israel REALLY the problem?? 10 "Misconceptions"??...help me out brehs

[Maschine_Man]

For the Record, I don't really have a strong stance on this subject (I don't feel I've read up on this enough to give a really informed opinion)
However This was posted on Facebook in response to What just went down with Obama/Israel.

So basically anyone that is current on this can you confirm or deny any of this?
If true then this might change my perspective (Prior to this, and as of right now I've always been a proponent of a free Palestine)

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is perhaps the most complex political issue of our time. Many have resorted to simply blaming one side or the other. But if we take the time to understand the history and correct our misconceptions a potential path forward for the Palestinians begins to emerge.

So let's start by trying to get the story straight - and clear up 10 of the biggest
misconceptions out there:

Misconception #1 - Israel illegally stole land from the Palestinians - In 1947, the UN voted to give land to both the Jews and the Palestinians. The Jews accepted their partition and legally formed the state of
Israel. The Palestinians rejected their partition and attacked. Even after losing the war, the Arabs still had most of the land from the UN ruling. Which leads us to...

Misconception #2 - The surrounding Arab nations actually want to create a Palestinian State - So after the war the West Bank and Gaza were controlled by Jordan and Egypt...for 19 years! During that span, those governments never established a Palestinian state. Instead--they kept the land for their own use.

Misconception #3 The Arab nations want to solve the refugee crisis - Palestinians have settled in Arab nations throughout the Middle East. These nations could solve the crisis immediately by granting refugees equal rights, but instead they refuse to let them vote, own land, or even study in public schools. Ironically, The only country to grant them full citizenship rights is Israel which absorbed 156,000 Arabs after the 1948 war and even today Arabs hold seats in the Israeli government and Supreme Court.

"Misconception #4 UN efforts are helping to solve the refugee crisis - The UN did step in to provide assistance to the Palestinian refugees. But instead of using their existing agency that helps resettle refugee populations around the world the UN created UNWRA which
labels every Palestinian as a refugee until a Palestinian state is formed within the borders of Israel. This makes it more difficult for Palestinians to thrive in their host countries and locks them into perpetual refugee status passing it on to their children, grand-children and great-grandchildren swelling the refugee population from 500,000 in 1949 to nearly 5 million today. As conditions worsened-- the international aid started to pour in-- which incidentally is...

Misconception #5 - The solution is more money - Really? Western nations have given the Palestinians a ton of aid. Even taking inflation into account, they've been given 25x more money per person
than Europe was given to rebuild after WWII. Where's the stable economy? Where's the improved infrastructure? That money sure could have helped, but it was given to some leaders who had a different agenda... Which brings us headlong into...

Misconception #6 - Forming a State is the primary goal of top Palestinian leaders - All of this international aid did go to help ease one man's suffering - Yasser Arafat. After his death accountants hired by Arafat's own family discovered secret investments worth more than 1 billion dollars. That income stream would be threatened if a new state was formed--
which gives leaders like Arafat-- or Mahmoud Abbas for that matter-- a billion plus reasons to never actually sign a peace treaty. Which leads us to...

Misconception #7 - Israel has a true peace partner - in the year 2000 desperate for a resolution, the Israelis elected Prime Minister EHud Barak with a mandate to make peace with the Palestinians. Barak offered Yasser Arafat 94% of the land he demanded, except Jerusalem. Arafat flatly refused. President Clinton blamed the failure of the best chance at peace in 60 years squarely on Yasser Arafat. Which brings up perhaps the most common misconception
of all...

#8 - Israel just needs to give up land for peace –The last time Israel tried this was in 2005. They forced thousands of Jewish settlers out of Gaza and in exchange the Palestinian leaders promised peace. But when the Israelis
moved out, the Palestinians voted Hamas in. Yep- they elected a terrorist organization who -- since taking power-- has fired more than 10,000 rockets into Israel. Surprised? Then you've probably bought into...

Misconception #9 –
Most Palestinians want a lasting peace with Israel. Some Palestinians do, but they are a minority. For 60 years Palestinian educational leaders have fed their children a steady diet of hate. Idolizing suicide bombers and celebrating death, right in the classroom. And finally...

Misconception #10 - Giving the Palestinians a state now is the only solution to their suffering. - This has been the only approach tried for the last 60 years. But these are people we're talking about, and waiting until they have a state to give them equal rights
has only made things worse. Currently, Israel is the only nation to grant full rights to the Palestinians within their borders, but by granting them equal rights in every nation where they live, we could immediately increase the quality of life for every Palestinian.

Let's be honest. These Misconceptions have concealed potential solutions. When we take time to clear up confusion and face reality, we begin to uncover the truth and that's when real progress towards justice can begin.

 

[Broke Wave]

stfu, you worthless racist DEVIL

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

someone needs to lay off the Prager U videos

 

[Maschine_Man]

stfu, you worthless racist DEVIL

how am I racist?

someone needs to lay off the Prager U videos

the fukk is Prager U.



and why...yet again are ppl derailing threads?

 

[Broke Wave]

how am I racist?

the fukk is Prager U.



and why...yet again are ppl derailing threads?

Go back to reddit, cac

 

[Anerdyblackguy]

go away with this zionist BS.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

go away with this zionist BS.

I'm not anti-israel, I AM anti-fake history.

OP went to some "Palestinian are invented people" diatribe to make it convenient forget Israel was engaged in anti-europa terrorism as well in the 40s

 

[Maschine_Man]

wtf? for real...am I in the twilight zone here?

I posted something to hopefully get ppl talking about it, and to help spread some knowledge(mostly to me) as I wanted to know what is really truth. But since most ppl in here ain't interested in really building, I can see it was a waste of time.

I clearly said I wasn't up on this topic and asked if anyone can confirm or deny that stuff and hopefully give some more informed info.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

wtf? for real...am I in the twilight zone here?

I posted something to hopefully get ppl talking about it, and to help spread some knowledge(mostly to me) as I wanted to know what is really truth. But since most ppl in here ain't interested in really building, I can see it was a waste of time.

I clearly said I wasn't up on this topic and asked if anyone can confirm or deny that stuff and hopefully give some more informed info.

You're filibustering

The current issue is that Israel is in the wrong here by continuing to settle land that is not theirs by way of colonizing it ever so slightly

 

[Maschine_Man]

You're filibustering

The current issue is that Israel is in the wrong here by continuing to settle land that is not theirs by way of colonizing it ever so slightly

care to expand more on that? that has always been my opinion on it based on the little that I knew about it.

But learning more about the history of stuff I'm trying to figure out what is the truth and what isn't

 

[Saiyajin]

this pigskin, future child molester hasnt been banned yet?

 

[Maschine_Man]

Kotal Kahn negged you for your post in the thread Is Israel REALLY the problem??. With the following comment: your father molests children and you're ok with it





This site, is literally filled with children.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Just about all of those "misconception" rebuttals are total and utter nonsense. When so much nonsense is thrown out there, it is difficult to reply without writing up a considerable amount and taking time to rebut stuff point by point.

I'll address the first point:

Misconception #1 - Israel illegally stole land from the Palestinians - In 1947, the UN voted to give land to both the Jews and the Palestinians. The Jews accepted their partition and legally formed the state of
Israel. The Palestinians rejected their partition and attacked. Even after losing the war, the Arabs still had most of the land from the UN ruling. Which leads us to...

This is absurd. The United Nations was a wholly Western-controlled institution at the time and did not have the right to put forth any plan to Palestinians regarding the partition of their homeland. Palestine was held as a colonial possession by the British, who nurtured what became a settler colonialist project in Palestine.

If I'm not mistaken, Palestinians constituted the majority population in historic Palestine in 1947, the time of the UN Partition Plan. Yet, as you see on the 2nd map from the left, Israel was given most of the land in the region (and much of the land bequeathed to Israel did not even align with where the Jewish settlements were, as you can see from comparing the map on the left with the 2nd one from the left). It was not a fair plan from the get-go, there should never have been a partition, and no settler colonialist project should have been facilitated by Britain.

You can't properly discuss the issues without having an understanding of what happened before 1948 and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians that accompanied the creation of the state of Israel.

I recommend that you read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe if you are truly interested in the history and politics here.

 

[David_TheMan]

For the Record, I don't really have a strong stance on this subject (I don't feel I've read up on this enough to give a really informed opinion)
However This was posted on Facebook in response to What just went down with Obama/Israel.

So basically anyone that is current on this can you confirm or deny any of this?
If true then this might change my perspective (Prior to this, and as of right now I've always been a proponent of a free Palestine)

The Israeli/Palestinian conflict is perhaps the most complex political issue of our time. Many have resorted to simply blaming one side or the other. But if we take the time to understand the history and correct our misconceptions a potential path forward for the Palestinians begins to emerge.

So let's start by trying to get the story straight - and clear up 10 of the biggest
misconceptions out there:

Misconception #1 - Israel illegally stole land from the Palestinians - In 1947, the UN voted to give land to both the Jews and the Palestinians. The Jews accepted their partition and legally formed the state of
Israel. The Palestinians rejected their partition and attacked. Even after losing the war, the Arabs still had most of the land from the UN ruling. Which leads us to...

Misconception #2 - The surrounding Arab nations actually want to create a Palestinian State - So after the war the West Bank and Gaza were controlled by Jordan and Egypt...for 19 years! During that span, those governments never established a Palestinian state. Instead--they kept the land for their own use.

Misconception #3 The Arab nations want to solve the refugee crisis - Palestinians have settled in Arab nations throughout the Middle East. These nations could solve the crisis immediately by granting refugees equal rights, but instead they refuse to let them vote, own land, or even study in public schools. Ironically, The only country to grant them full citizenship rights is Israel which absorbed 156,000 Arabs after the 1948 war and even today Arabs hold seats in the Israeli government and Supreme Court.

"Misconception #4 UN efforts are helping to solve the refugee crisis - The UN did step in to provide assistance to the Palestinian refugees. But instead of using their existing agency that helps resettle refugee populations around the world the UN created UNWRA which
labels every Palestinian as a refugee until a Palestinian state is formed within the borders of Israel. This makes it more difficult for Palestinians to thrive in their host countries and locks them into perpetual refugee status passing it on to their children, grand-children and great-grandchildren swelling the refugee population from 500,000 in 1949 to nearly 5 million today. As conditions worsened-- the international aid started to pour in-- which incidentally is...

Misconception #5 - The solution is more money - Really? Western nations have given the Palestinians a ton of aid. Even taking inflation into account, they've been given 25x more money per person
than Europe was given to rebuild after WWII. Where's the stable economy? Where's the improved infrastructure? That money sure could have helped, but it was given to some leaders who had a different agenda... Which brings us headlong into...

Misconception #6 - Forming a State is the primary goal of top Palestinian leaders - All of this international aid did go to help ease one man's suffering - Yasser Arafat. After his death accountants hired by Arafat's own family discovered secret investments worth more than 1 billion dollars. That income stream would be threatened if a new state was formed--
which gives leaders like Arafat-- or Mahmoud Abbas for that matter-- a billion plus reasons to never actually sign a peace treaty. Which leads us to...

Misconception #7 - Israel has a true peace partner - in the year 2000 desperate for a resolution, the Israelis elected Prime Minister EHud Barak with a mandate to make peace with the Palestinians. Barak offered Yasser Arafat 94% of the land he demanded, except Jerusalem. Arafat flatly refused. President Clinton blamed the failure of the best chance at peace in 60 years squarely on Yasser Arafat. Which brings up perhaps the most common misconception
of all...

#8 - Israel just needs to give up land for peace –The last time Israel tried this was in 2005. They forced thousands of Jewish settlers out of Gaza and in exchange the Palestinian leaders promised peace. But when the Israelis
moved out, the Palestinians voted Hamas in. Yep- they elected a terrorist organization who -- since taking power-- has fired more than 10,000 rockets into Israel. Surprised? Then you've probably bought into...

Misconception #9 –
Most Palestinians want a lasting peace with Israel. Some Palestinians do, but they are a minority. For 60 years Palestinian educational leaders have fed their children a steady diet of hate. Idolizing suicide bombers and celebrating death, right in the classroom. And finally...

Misconception #10 - Giving the Palestinians a state now is the only solution to their suffering. - This has been the only approach tried for the last 60 years. But these are people we're talking about, and waiting until they have a state to give them equal rights
has only made things worse. Currently, Israel is the only nation to grant full rights to the Palestinians within their borders, but by granting them equal rights in every nation where they live, we could immediately increase the quality of life for every Palestinian.

Let's be honest. These Misconceptions have concealed potential solutions. When we take time to clear up confusion and face reality, we begin to uncover the truth and that's when real progress towards justice can begin.

1) How is it a misconception. All the land was Palestinians, UK catered to zionist and started shipping them there and the Israelis illegally started occupying land they had no claim to. On top of that, you have the current Israeli government occupying and continuing to occupy land the same UN ruled was Palestianian with no international recourse for their continued invasion.

2) Jordan took land and Egypt took land. They both need to give the land they occupied back, that doesn't absolve Israel from what it has done in currently blocking formal government of Palestine and occupying Palestinian land.

3) Arab refugee problem has nothing to do with Palestianian issue, but if you want to get to the heart of the matter the refugee problem was caused by Western nations in the quest to overthrow local governments that didn't cater to them. It isn't the neighbors problem to really fix, since they didn't cause it.

4) UN has been blocked by the US from imposing any real sanctions on Israel until now, so to claim the UN is the problem when everyone knows the US has been using its place to block any sanction or any formal recourse is absurd on its face.

5) This seems like a strawman, no one has ever argued the issue with Palenstine is the lack of western aid. That said the solution also isn't sending billions of military and foreign aid to Israel either.

6) This again is another canard of an argument. Yassir Arafat and the PLO were working towards a seperate state solution that was constantly blocked by who? Israel. It is now known that Israel created Hamas to disrupt PLO unity in creating a seperate state solution. Why? Hamas did not want a 2 state solution.

7) Israel is the aggressor, they don't need a peace partner, they simply need to removed their illegal settlements immediately On top of that they need to stop fighting the creation of a independent palestianian state, they don't want this because they desire the land that is currently slated to Palestine, hence its allowance to continue to expand its illegal settlements. Now explain to me how in the hell you can claim Palestine is wrong for wanting 100% of what was owed to it and not settling for anything less? ( Was Arafat the problem? ) They wouldn't get full land mass back and the deal would entail Palestine not even getting full statehood. They would be barred from establishing a military, they would not have control over their own airspace, plus Israel would control a road that went through their territory. The myth that the Palestianians were given a "fair" agreement is a joke on its face.

8) Israel moved out settlements? Is that why in 2016 the US finally came out and said they ignored and failed to remove their settlements? Tell me why it should be applauded that Israel did not go back to the territory that was given to it? If I broke into your home, kicked all your shyt out, and then told you, you can have your bedroom back, would I be just? This is the equailvant of what Israel did. They gave a few settlements up, the cost picked up by the US taxpayer to around 200k per settler, and this is supposed to be taken as a sign of good faith instead of a complete withdrawal from all territorty not given to them? And again, who created and funded Hamas? Israel? Why, because the group politically was against a 2 state solution.

9) Picture worth 1000 words they say

10) 2 state solution has been opposed by Israel, this claim that this was the Israeli position is false on its face.

===========

OP seems like you really just posted zionist propaganda.

 

[Maschine_Man]

Just about all of those "misconception" rebuttals are total and utter nonsense. When so much nonsense is thrown out there, it is difficult to reply without writing up a considerable amount and taking time to rebut stuff point by point.

I'll address the first point:



This is absurd. The United Nations was a wholly Western-controlled institution at the time and did not have the right to put forth any plan to Palestinians regarding the partition of their homeland. Palestine was held as a colonial possession by the British, who nurtured what became a settler colonialist project in Palestine.

If I'm not mistaken, Palestinians constituted the majority population in historic Palestine in 1947, the time of the UN Partition Plan. Yet, as you see on the 2nd map from the left, Israel was given most of the land in the region (and much of the land bequeathed to Israel did not even align with where the Jewish settlements were, as you can see from comparing the map on the left with the 2nd one from the left). It was not a fair plan from the get-go, there should never have been a partition, and no settler colonialist project should have been facilitated by Britain.

You can't properly discuss the issues without having an understanding of what happened before 1948 and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians that accompanied the creation of the state of Israel.

I recommend that you read The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe if you are truly interested in the history and politics here.

good looking out bruh, I'll check that out.

just off of what I knew prior to reading these, some of those "misconceptions" kinda looked off to me.