Is machine learning a big deal or nah?

[PS5 Pro]

I was under thee impression that machine learning is how PC is winning, but I don't see console gamers talking about it. Is it really all it's cracked up to be???

 

[Secure Da Bag]

Traditional or hardcore AI is not really used as much in games as it is in other applications. Games tend to use decision trees and state machines in terms of AI. You might see some machine learning in some like "Legendary mode" or something like that if the devs really wanted you to suffer. Basically the NPCs learn your patterns, making it almost impossible to get past the stage.

 

[EarlyEarly]

Machine learning? Like Skynet

 

[PS5 Pro]

Traditional or hardcore AI is not really used as much in games as it is in other applications. Games tend to use decision trees and state machines in terms of AI. You might see some machine learning in some like "Legendary mode" or something like that if the devs really wanted you to suffer. Basically the NPCs learn your patterns, making it almost impossible to get past the stage.

 

[Auger]

Yes, from my understanding it offloads computations that would otherwise eat up needed resources.
It's the only progression left after hardware manufacturers approach diminishing returns. (and moore's law)

DLSS and AMD's FSR will be the future

 

[Secure Da Bag]

Even the guy making the video says that ML is just a phrase and no one even knows what the means.

 

[Rice N Beans]

I was under thee impression that machine learning is how PC is winning

PC wins as the cutting edge platform and user controlled builds.

but I don't see console gamers talking about it.

Because consoles are snapshots of technology with rigid resource requirements, it doesn't make much sense to incorporate it there in code because you need the resources for it.

You've experience something like machine learning with the otherwise abysmal Drivatar which needed the data to be uploaded for use - however, not explicitly ML, it is similar.

Basically, the code can use the results of whatever it gets tasked with to improve the compute in some way for the targeted result. As a basic example, a billiards game in development can have ML until it has a winning shot scenario no matter the situation. It can possibly pick up a shot to hit 3 in a shot, per shot, to be as efficient as possible.

Is it really all it's cracked up to be???

When applied correctly, yes. This can take a good amount of human time out of development in things like medicine, for example.

 

[Big Blue]

Machine learning is how MSFT is able to bring HDR to games that were never mastered in it. It's a big deal.

 

[Regular Developer]

Coming from the data engineering and data science world, what I know about the different ML tools out here, any ML method that may be better on pc vs console would be overkill. There's not that many inputs of information or gaming situations where the game would need to make huge adjustments. So any high level/complex ML would probably best be used for something other than AI.

 

[Big Blue]

Coming from the data engineering and data science world, what I know about the different ML tools out here, any ML method that may be better on pc vs console would be overkill. There's not that many inputs of information or gaming situations where the game would need to make huge adjustments. So any high level/complex ML would probably best be used for something other than AI.

Yeah ML on console is overkill, but it still has an impact on "QOL" in terms of gaming. Xbox auto HDR being an example.

 

[Regular Developer]

Yeah ML on console is overkill, but it still has an impact on "QOL" in terms of gaming. Xbox auto HDR being an example.

Yea, completely makes sense. I'd also imagine they'd be using ML for online gaming to know what to put into the store, find new hacks, or if they want to do AI adjustments, create new bosses that will try to be difficult against popular gameplay types.

 

[PS5 Pro]

Well, it's clear nobody here really gets it. And that's ok, I know ego will now take over and you're right now thinking "this nikka/er can't know" and I used er because you did
So anyways, I'll go over what you don't understand and maybe just maybe this place will have a better understanding of what's what and how what works

Even the guy making the video says that ML is just a phrase and no one even knows what the means.

I'm sure that's what you got out of the video that tries to explain. And you skipped over it to focus on bullshyt that really only applies to you

PC wins as the cutting edge platform and user controlled builds.



Because consoles are snapshots of technology with rigid resource requirements, it doesn't make much sense to incorporate it there in code because you need the resources for it.

You've experience something like machine learning with the otherwise abysmal Drivatar which needed the data to be uploaded for use - however, not explicitly ML, it is similar.

Basically, the code can use the results of whatever it gets tasked with to improve the compute in some way for the targeted result. As a basic example, a billiards game in development can have ML until it has a winning shot scenario no matter the situation. It can possibly pick up a shot to hit 3 in a shot, per shot, to be as efficient as possible.



When applied correctly, yes. This can take a good amount of human time out of development in things like medicine, for example.

You sir exposed yourself here, it doesn't make sense you say? I mean if it was used in the example you said for pool Like you did realize ml was never for that. Let's go to the obvious reasons why it would benefit Xbox.

To achieve 4k/120 on PC they use this wonderful technique, reconstructing a lower res imagine into a high res one without losing fidelity (basically you can't tell) and everyone seems to understand checkerboarding. Well machine learning is a more advanced way of checkerboarding. And while most of you was aware of that, the question for consoles is how will they implement the same techniques while using AMD which hasn't rolled out their solution yet (fsr)

But there's more ladies. Microsoft has been developing it's ML for a good while and I'm not sure if it's direct 12 related or something else but we'll see those results THIS YEAR.

What the video I posted in the op goes into a little bit is how it can be used for more than just graphics and resolution. Anything, any task can benefit from machine learning. That pool analogy you used, peanuts. Literally can help free up any task and increases the overall capability of the system 10 fold. These are facts, not estimates...

Coming from the data engineering and data science world, what I know about the different ML tools out here, any ML method that may be better on pc vs console would be overkill. There's not that many inputs of information or gaming situations where the game would need to make huge adjustments. So any high level/complex ML would probably best be used for something other than AI.

Since you have a background as you say then you'll really appreciate facts as opposed to opinions from people who wouldn't know. You don't know me so I could be clueless or I could be the creator. So I'll just post facts that corroborate with my story...

Microsoft's DirectML is the next-generation game-changer that nobody's talking about

What is your opinion about this sir

 

[Regular Developer]

Well, it's clear nobody here really gets it. And that's ok, I know ego will now take over and you're right now thinking "this nikka/er can't know" and I used er because you did
So anyways, I'll go over what you don't understand and maybe just maybe this place will have a better understanding of what's what and how what works

I'm sure that's what you got out of the video that tries to explain. And you skipped over it to focus on bullshyt that really only applies to you

You sir exposed yourself here, it doesn't make sense you say? I mean if it was used in the example you said for pool Like you did realize ml was never for that. Let's go to the obvious reasons why it would benefit Xbox.

To achieve 4k/120 on PC they use this wonderful technique, reconstructing a lower res imagine into a high res one without losing fidelity (basically you can't tell) and everyone seems to understand checkerboarding. Well machine learning is a more advanced way of checkerboarding. And while most of you was aware of that, the question for consoles is how will they implement the same techniques while using AMD which hasn't rolled out their solution yet (fsr)

But there's more ladies. Microsoft has been developing it's ML for a good while and I'm not sure if it's direct 12 related or something else but we'll see those results THIS YEAR.

What the video I posted in the op goes into a little bit is how it can be used for more than just graphics and resolution. Anything, any task can benefit from machine learning. That pool analogy you used, peanuts. Literally can help free up any task and increases the overall capability of the system 10 fold. These are facts, not estimates...

Since you have a background as you say then you'll really appreciate facts as opposed to opinions from people who wouldn't know. You don't know me so I could be clueless or I could be the creator. So I'll just post facts that corroborate with my story...

Microsoft's DirectML is the next-generation game-changer that nobody's talking about

What is your opinion about this sir

It seems the article is talking about ML and AI in more of a general sense, and not so much as character AI, which is what I thought this thread was about. I understand that part of how ML is advancing things. I might have misunderstood the premise of this thread. I thought it was ML in terms of npc AI

Edit: and I'm saying general sense as in to make improvements to the overall gaming experience. That makes sense to me, instead of using developers go through the feedback-improve loop of updating graphics or sound effects or anything similar, just use AI to do that. Kind of like how AI was used in the final seasons of Silicon Valley.

 

[PS5 Pro]

It seems the article is talking about ML and AI in more of a general sense, and not so much as character AI, which is what I thought this thread was about. I understand that part of how ML is advancing things. I might have misunderstood the premise of this thread. I thought it was ML in terms of npc AI

Edit: and I'm saying general sense as in to make improvements to the overall gaming experience. That makes sense to me, instead of using developers go through the feedback-improve loop of updating graphics or sound effects or anything similar, just use AI to do that. Kind of like how AI was used in the final seasons of Silicon Valley.

Whatever improvements it can do for Xbox, as of today 99% of all gamers are clueless on its existence and wouldn't believe you if you told them and provided links and videos.

I guess it won't ever come out, machine learning is just a theory y'all

Spoiler

Theory of the evolution of gaming that is

 

[Half A $]