Is the West losing its military edge?

[Trajan]

Great programme from the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05qgd0n

40 Min audio but some points:


Desert Storm was the apex of American power as the sole superpower left standing.

Western forces including the United States are nowhere near as strong as many of us would assume.

European states have been cutting back on defence post-cold war…the so called ''peace dividend'':

Britain has been cutting back massively: Could only contribute 8 Tornado jets to bomb Iraq in 2014 compared to more than 140 in 1991.

Some states have cut entire capabilities

Only 24 of Germany's 56 transport planes and 16 out of 83 helicopters were working. 42 out of 109 fighter jets were working

In Libya in 2011 Europeans ran out of inventories within weeks and had to buy additional supplies from the US

Americans do not believe any European country can sustain with a major state. Relies too heavily on America.

Americans annoyed at European free riding . Cutting defence in favour of social spending.

''Why should the American taxpayer foot the bill for European security when Europeans are just as prosperous as we are''

70% of NATO military spending = American. The other 27 members spend 30%.


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Only half way through.

 

[Saka]

If you believe the objective of war is some climactic victory.... truth is its not, perpetual war is the goal, the military-industrial complex relies on it for technological innovation and good old profiteering. That is precisely why we declare war on vague concepts like "Drugs" and "Terrorism" .

 

[DEAD7]

No.

 

[Trajan]

Listen to the report brehs.

Don't just go by the title.

the military-industrial complex relies on it for technological innovation and good old profiteering

That's more an American thing. Europeans prefer social spending to military.

The perverse incentives of the American military complex are explored later in the programme with the failure of the F35.

 

[JahFocus CS]

Trump would make the Europeans step up though

 

[MrSinnister]

No. It's just VERY expensive to keep attacking the Middle East when you don't have any allies, outside Israel's right wing money and influence grubbing ass, to help you out a bit. We have to launch strike ls from Turkey or Egypt to avoid dealing with ground warfare. Jets are highly expensive, as well as importing fuel.

It just takes a very patient and rich country to deal with terrorism and the devolution of the Middle East, and this is ALL George W. Bush's fault for losing the moral high ground to feed the military subcontractors, oil companies, and military brass with no empathy. He lost the people long ago there.

Obama has a huge amount of credibility there, and I feel he was the only president who could have gotten the Iran deal done with not too many concession. But for every seeming success we have, we create more enemies.

 

[NERO]

Listen to the report brehs.

Don't just go by the title.



That's more an American thing. Europeans prefer social spending to military.

The perverse incentives of the American military complex are explored later in the programme with the failure of the F35.

The Europeans are going along with US foreign policy lockstep and doing it for totally selfish reasons. They are no better.

 

[Trajan]

The Europeans are going along with US foreign policy lockstep and doing it for totally selfish reasons. They are no better.

Oh no doubt.

I was replying to the poster who referred to the military-industrial complex and profiteering. That is an American thing.

 

[MrSinnister]

Because of the low support at home, the high premium on Western lives, and the expense of ground combat; the West is forced to fight a Coward's War. This means we use more drone and air strikes, which has a lot of civilian casualties. It only leads then to ISIS and other groups for revenge. It's the main reason we ended up simply nuking Japan, because we don't have the manpower or will to fight a protracted war and consider civilians.

We should. We definitely should of were going to continue to be there and want relations afterwards. Unless the people are willing to free themselves, we have no choice if they're going to continue to pull terrorist attacks. It's a vicious circle, because we fukked that area up, along with Britain, a long time ago with oil deals. When they do rebel against established power, it is usally a military coup, which is more right wing than the one they've gotten rid of.

 

[MrSinnister]

The Europeans are going along with US foreign policy lockstep and doing it for totally selfish reasons. They are no better.

They're a lot better, actually. They, unlined the US, has to deal with the threat and near forces immigration of terrorists constantly. If there is war in the ME, they flee to Europe, because of their social programs and hate crime laws. Many don't respect their hospitality though.

Not to say they're perfect or always good, but they're a million times better than we are, even if many had a hand in fukking up that part of the world when they were more right wing.

 

[Saka]

Oh no doubt.

I was replying to the poster who referred to the military-industrial complex and profiteering. That is an American thing.

The military industrial complex is multinational and its interests are global, the reason Europe can prioritize social spending is precisely because of how powerful it is. This article is from the BBC, now ask yourself would the western establishment advocate for increased military spending? When does it ever not. The most you could argue is that the west is now 6x more powerful than everyone else whereas before they might have been 5x more powerful.

 

[y que]

probably

its mostly inept leadership and profiteering these days

there's really no way to tell how powerful the military actually is considering there's no official wars being declared or victories being sought

just continous perpetual killing in lands with little to no organized military threat

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

If you believe the objective of war is some climactic victory.... truth is its not, perpetual war is the goal, the military-industrial complex relies on it for technological innovation and good old profiteering. That is precisely why we declare war on vague concepts like "Drugs" and "Terrorism" .

This is precisely why Snowden is a traitor.

 

[tmonster]

This is precisely why Snowden is a traitor.

lolwut?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

lolwut?

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/is-w...ful-idiot-anonymous-beefing-w-assange.359785/