Is there anything more stupid in the 21st century than Libertarianism :mjlol:

ogc163

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Yes. Unless one of the foundational elements of the capitalist mode of production as written on by Smith, Ricardo, Marx, Keynes, even Tooze, Graeber, and Piketty to an extent - is a farce :yeshrug:

You're also mildly distorting the labor theory of value.

The main issue is labor theory of value vs subjective theory of value/theory of marginal utility. And Smith, Keynes and Ricardo also being wrong is not relevant, it's an appeal to authority.

As to the bolded, how would you describe the labor theory of value?
 

Gus Money

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I agree conservatives have been more racist, but I don’t find the distinction meaningful to black advancement.
I don’t believe gov can legislate away racism or discrimination, and has shown over the course of its existence that it’s either unwilling or incapable of uplifting blacks.


...the black liberal love affair with the American government is one of the most puzzling.

...rejection of big government isn’t the Republican co-sign you seem to think it is.
At least we agree on something. It's meaningful because history repeats itself with republicans opposing black advancement at every turn, and the more black/brown/vulnerable people we can mobilize politically against voter suppression and harmful policies, the more we'll all benefit as a whole.

The point isn't exactly to legislate racism away, it's more to protect people from the effects of racism/discrimination, to provide remedies and damages to those who have been affected, and to discourage continued discrimination by those in power. It's far from perfect but all of these goals have been advanced to some degree due to those protections, and it's better than letting vulnerable people remain at the whim of racists without any remedies or protections in place.

I prefer leftist to liberal, but I don't think either group has a love affair with the government (well, liberals sometimes). Being in law school showed me how certain government actors have made it their mission to work against black people throughout history, and but I'd still put more faith in government actors over private ones. I've seen the damage private corporations do to my clients when their only goal is profit, and I've worked with countless government/public workers who go above and beyond to actually help and protect people.
 

Black Panther

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the black liberal love affair with the American government is one of the most puzzling.

Black people don't "love" government any more than employees "love" their employers.

We support government insofar as it relates to giving us the benefits Black people need to thrive. In America, attempts to reduce the size of government have always = less benefits and protections for Black people.
 

DEAD7

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Black people don't "love" government any more than employees "love" their employers.

We support government insofar as it relates to giving us the benefits Black people need to thrive. In America, attempts to reduce the size of government have always = less benefits and protections for Black people.
I dont believe its given us or intends to give us what we need to thrive... I also dont believe the protections have been effective at anything other than cementing us as Americas bottom caste.
:manny:Maybe we just view the black condition in America differently... because for me gov has not been part of the solution.
 

Black Panther

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I also dont believe the protections have been effective at anything other than cementing us as Americas bottom caste.

You're free to be pessimistic, but Black people in America are doing far better after certain protections were put in place than before.

That's not a statement of complacency with how things are--equality is still a long ways off--but it's a fact.

I don't understand the conservative inclination to twist themselves in knots trying to argue around wealth redistribution. Giving lower income people money helps them to not be lower income anymore.

How To Fight Poverty? It’s Simple: Give Cash To Poor People
 

DEAD7

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You're free to be pessimistic, but Black people in America are doing far better after certain protections were put in place than before.

That's not a statement of complacency with how things are--equality is still a long ways off--but it's a fact.

I don't understand the conservative inclination to twist themselves in knots trying to argue around wealth redistribution. Giving lower income people money helps them to not be lower income anymore.

How To Fight Poverty? It’s Simple: Give Cash To Poor People
It’s often how the money is redistributed...


As for blacks being better off... we certainly are. We are also still at the bottom where we were before those protections.
I dont believe its given us or intends to give us what we need to thrive...
It’s just made the bottom more comfortable for us.
Equality imo is a mirage.
 

88m3

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grievance politics for men, particularly white men and they're also really into child sex slaves and degrading women

seems like there is a significant crossover with incels

just stopping back through to point out none of them disputed this


:ehh:
 

mr. smoke weed

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Colorado type hippies in 2014... turned MAGA by 2016...

Got their weed now they :mjpls:

It blows my mind how some of the folk here smoke so much weed and think the way they do politically. Michigan I think would be worse though.
 

Cynic

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It's the arguments against taxation that kill all credibility since taxes predate capitalism and their own self indulgent ideology.

They don't even realize the market conditions they yearn for will lead to the masses seizing everything they have


:laff:
 

DEAD7

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It's the arguments against taxation that kill all credibility since taxes predate capitalism and their own self indulgent ideology.

They don't even realize the market conditions they yearn for will lead to the masses seizing everything they have


:laff:
The anarcho crowd is ridiculous.:pachaha:
 

DonKnock

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