Isiah Thomas GOES OFF on this current NBA era

[soulfuljah]

Slim Charles....the "pawn" that made it to the other end...

*back on topic*

lol

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Its a fair point

 

[duckbutta]

Here's the problem with the handchecking argument though, there are guys who played with it, and without it, and we can look at their numbers. For example, Allen Iverson's best shooting season was with handchecking, he also won an MVP with it still around, not to say Rose is on his level but he was tiny and a bent arm did nothing with him because he's quick. The handchecking everyone is always referencing is when the NBA removed it completely before the start of the 04-05 season, that is the lightning rod everyone is always talking about, but we can just look at dudes numbers like Marbury, Iverson, B. Davis Francis pre-and post rule.

You can play Frye with Thompson because they're playing with LeBron, a player that commands just as much attention as Duncan, Shaq and Hakeem. Today, most of these PGs that are hard to defend play with a stretch 4, because it creates a situation where you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Do you go over and hard trap the PG and potentially leave the stretch 4 open for the three, do you switch on the pick and have your big guard some dude who is looking to dance all over him or have the stretch 4 roll to the rim. Do you go under the screen and risk the PG pulling up for a three? How many stretch bigs in the past were playing with drive and kick players? How many teams really tried to spread the floor like that other than Don Nelson experiments, everyone tried the same shyt. How much more effective do you think Gary Payton would have been if Kemp had been playing the 5, and he had someone like Ryan Anderson at the 4 instead the Kemp/Johnson Kemp/Perkins frontcourts he had? The Jazz probably would have a better shot against the Bulls with a floor spacer to give Karl more room rather than Ostertag, Carr and Foster.

Teams are being built with space in mind now because of the zone, it's a design philosophy and I bet teams like the Sixers, Nuggets and Wolves with young bigs will put floor spacers at the 4 next to their guys.

I semi agree with you on the handchecking. It does not mean every single point guard or perimeter player numbers are all of a sudden going to go down by 7 points a game or something similar, but it does mean that some point guards games are going to trend down and never go back to where they were. Steph for example is a guy who would be severely impacted by handchecking. He is not over athletic, he is not overly quick, he does not have great leaping ability, so if you are allowed to put a hand on him and ride him all over the court, he is going to have a much harder time than say someone like Westbrook when it comes to shot creation due to the overwhelming athletic difference. You can already sort of see this with steph with his "we need more pick and roll" comment which I took to mean "i need more space to shoot the ball" and that is what handshaking does, it limits space. And then there is the overall team factor effect that handchecking has. So Westbrook for example, while I do not think his shot creation would change much (in part because he takes a lot of bad shots) I think his assist and rebound numbers would start to trend down, probably WAY down over time, because a lot of his assist come from his getting in the lane, collapsing the defense, and he dumps off easy passes to adams and kanter and hits whoever is in the corner for 3's, you bring handchecking back and it becomes harder for him to get in the lane and pass...now all of a sudden Adam's is not getting 3 to 5 dunks and layups a game...now all of a sudden all those guys who have no real skill other than standing around shooting open shots after he collapses the defense start to get fewer and fewer of them because it becomes harder to get those drive and kick opportunities when the opposing defenisve player can close that 2 feet of space and not worry about a whistle.

As far as Lebron, if we are talking about the nba as it is right now then yes you are absolutely correct. If we are talking about dropping this current cavs team into say the lat 80's to mid 90's then I'm not so sure, because there are so many hard fouls that teams back then could deliver to Lebron and they might not even get called a foul. Lebron at 32 damn near just as physically dominate as Lebron at 26, and a lot of that has to do with the fact that you can't get very physical with him. Now drop him in that old school eastern conference and he got to spend year after year going against the bad boy pistons and instead of basketball they just trying to knock his block off like they were doing jordan. Drop him in that old school eastern conference with Van Gundy's knicks where Oakley is going to be going at his head when he comes down the lane. I don't think he could physically overwhelm those teams like he does these, at this age, because the rules allowed those teams to deliver punishment to a guy and the rules today punish a guy for trying to play defense. If he was to do it his jumpshot would have to get a lot more consistent.

You also have to consider the "culture shock" aspect of guys who are used to never being touched all of a sudden going to being touched all the time if you bring handchecking back. Harden is a guy who I think is good enough to put up numbers no matter what cause he has shown he can adjust his game...but imagine say his first 10 games if the nba all of a sudden brought handchecking and physicality back...imagine all of the times he flies into a defender and flays his arms for a foul and all of a sudden that is consistently a turnover instead of consistently a foul and freethrows

 

[Samori Toure]

Slim Charles....the "pawn" that made it to the other end...

*back on topic*

lol

Believe it or not it was kind of on topic due to Reinscarf statement about "back in day." Cheese broke it down and then got capped.

 

[street heat]

Klay got 60 on 9 dribbles...that's real shyt. Old school nikkas ain't lying. This gen is a step beneath those greats

he plays with two all time greats in their prime, you have to pick your poison. they are NOT beneath players from the damn 80s

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

were they also saying this when these players dropped 50s back in the day?

These were anomalies.... that you still see in the NBA..... nikkas act like Terrence Ross and Corey Brewer aint never had these types of games.... it happens....

 

[mastermind]

I didnt say he was on the championship teams now did i?

nikkas said all of jordans teammates were scrubs and oak aint no scrub

So maybe you oughtta take your own advice and leave the basketball discussion to the adults bytch.

actually he said the talent on the roster of those late 90s Bulls teams were overrated. Go back and read that before you get mad.

Your dumbass responded by saying half the names YOU listed would be in the HOF.

Get the fukk outta this thread.

 

[UpAndComing]

There has to be Balance, all offense an no defense? Or 80's all defense and no offense?

I think the perfect balance was from 93-2005 where you could run but you could also be pyshical without slowing the game down too much.
Championship teams had to be great on offense an defense, had to have shooters and post up players.
No all you have is shooters, little to no post play,
Most teams don't even need a center, that's how bad it is.

This is literally the video game era, Kobe would of put up 110 points in a game instead of the 80, he got 60 in his last game at 37, people wanna say the jazz played soft..lol when don't they play soft...the league is soft aside from the cavs and cousins from Sacramento image him a more pyshical team...wow he would be champ by now.

The bolded, perfect description

I agree on that era. That balance is what people are complaining about. People are missing the point thinking the NBA legends want a slow 67-65 team points after 4 quarters. In the 80s and 90s, and early 2000s you had a combo of a run and gun style, that can also slow it down to a half court style, combined with a team that prided itself on rebounds, defense, and making you earn those points. Just realized something. Do people try to even draw offensive charges anymore ? . I remember Glen Big Baby Davis, Chuck Hayes, etc used to do that as a defensive strategy. Damn it's even gotten that bad

 

[UpAndComing]

These were anomalies.... that you still see in the NBA..... nikkas act like Terrence Ross and Corey Brewer aint never had these types of games.... it happens....

Aren't you a CAC

 

[MikelArteta]

Would he avg 22 and 12 in this day and age?

All I'm saying is these old cats talk like their world war two vets who fought on the front lines and the active NBA is some Falkland war type ish

Jeff Ruland was a damn good player.

 

[Dark is the night]

actually he said the talent on the roster of those late 90s Bulls teams were overrated. Go back and read that before you get mad.

Your dumbass responded by saying half the names YOU listed would be in the HOF.

Get the fukk outta this thread.

No, he said all of jordans bulls teammates were scrubs

And half of them will be in the hof you dumb bytch, pippen and rodman are already there and kerr is a shoe in and if john stockton can get in, so can oak

So why dont you get out the thread hoe?

 

[mastermind]

Would he avg 22 and 12 in this day and age?

All I'm saying is these old cats talk like their world war two vets who fought on the front lines and the active NBA is some Falkland war type ish

a big man with a strong back to basket game, and a good defender? Why wouldnt he be able to play?

He wouldnt be able to guard PnRs but a lot of these bigs wouldnt be able to guard him either.

 

[mastermind]

No, he said all of jordans bulls teammates were scrubs

He never said that, you liar.

In terms of overall talent, the Bulls may be the overrated team in sports history #MJdaGoat
1996-97 Chicago Bulls Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Because THEY HAD JORDAN

If I have one mission on the coli it will be to kill the notion that Jordan had a great supporting cast relative to other champions#MJdaGoat

And half of them will be in the hof you dumb bytch, pippen and rodman are already there and kerr is a shoe in and if john stockton can get in, so can oak

So why dont you get out the thread hoe?

Kerr may get in as a coach, not as a player. And Oakley will never make the basketball Hall of Fame.

You are a dusthead.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

There's some bad hot takes on here.

Try and dispute any of these facts.

1: The game was played much FASTER in the 1980s.

2: Teams scored MORE points despite being WORSE shooters.

3: Refs called MORE fouls back then, not fewer.

4: Until the Bad Boys got fully formed at the end of the 1990s, NO ONE was played hard on defense in most regular season games. Stop focusing on playoffs and featured games and look at everyday play.

5: Portland was averaging like 120ppg with a broken-shot superstar who could only use his right and looked at the ball when he dribbled. The BEST version of that team once went 10-50 from three over a six-game series. And they didn't have a post presence either...just a bunch of guys who could drive (with rudimentary ballhandling) and/or hit 15 foot jumpers.

6: Larry Bird has said straight-up that his team rarely practiced threes. Magic has said that they didn't guard threes until the end of games because you didn't expect players to shoot it and didn't care if they did.

The 80s Zeke starred in had barely any defensive only specialists as players. If you were a Kelly Tripuka type who averaged 27 ppg with Zeke and could shoot, you got burn.

Averaged 26.5ppg one year and had a 56-point game. Still 22.6ppg in 1989. Without making any threes.

Watch characters come in and tell me that White guys in the 1980s had a "special" kind of athleticism that magically is impossible to replicate in this era.

Must have been the lead in the gasoline.

How do Isaiah's numbers look in the light when THAT guy, drafted the same year, was averaging 27-7-6 with no three-point shot.

The original scouting reports on Tripucka, despite a fine college career at Notre Dame, said he was probably a step too slow for the NBA. Apparently not enough scouts took note of his aggressiveness. At the moment, Kelly's 20.6 scoring average is the highest of any NBA rookie. He is also third on the Pistons in rebounds.

If balloting for the NBA's Rookie of the Year were held tomorrow, there's a good chance that Tripucka would finish ahead of Aguirre and Thomas, both of whom were sidelined with injuries earlier this season.

 

[Dark is the night]

He never said that, you liar.






Kerr may get in as a coach, not as a player. And Oakley will never make the basketball Hall of Fame.

You are a dusthead.

"In terms of overall talent, the Bulls may be the overrated team in sports history #MJdaGoat"

Didnt say shyt about 90s only you stupid little test tube baby

And if cheryl miller and that piece of shyt pedophile karl malone fukking got in, oak will too