It's never been about Peyton vs. Brady...It's BEEN about Manning the OC vs. Bill Belichek the DC

[No1]

This. Brady was a game manager "don't fukk up" QB when he first broke in. Son completed 1 TD pass through the whole playoffs when he won that 1st ring. Brady is still great, but gotdamn, folk try so hard to big him up and shyt on Peyton. They're both fukking great. I still roll with Peyton cuz as Reb said, he is an OC. If there's no Belli...he probably gets another ring or 2.

It's like you and @yseJ guys literally did not watch the early Patriots every week. It's either or because there is no way you can honestly believe what you're saying having watched the Pats every week. Tom Brady NEVER had the weapons to put up big numbers early on. He was never a "game manager." He did what made sense. You're sitting here mad at Tom Brady because he had Jermaine Wiggins, Troy Brown and David Patten and was putting up comparable numbers for the most part as Daunte with Moss and co. Peyton with Reggie, Marvin, Edge, Stokley in the slot, the best o-line in football, etc. Gannon in Oakland, Warner in STL, etc....

Here's what he did do: Brady's first season as a a full time starter: He led the NFL in TD passes, was 7th in yards per game (30 behind Peyton), had a better TD to INT ratio than Peyton Manning and had the exact same QB rating as Peyton. Leading receivers: Troy Brown and David Patten. Do you guys think that if Brady was somewhere around the 16th best in stats that somehow when he finally get beasts on offense in like his 8th year in the league...his per game stats would suddenly look so comparable to Peyton's . He was ALWAYS in the ball park. You usually don't hit up game managers to ask them how to break down a team the way Peyton used to hit up Brady (and vice versa).

It's just a horrible and biased argument and lets me know you're judging it off of how Peyton looks on the field and the narratives you hear vs. what actually happens. Peyton Manning does not do anything on the field that Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady don't. Stop running with this "he's the only OC" nonsense when Tom Brady is the only one of the bunch who can say that he literally played without an offensive coordinator before..oh yeah, and he led the NFL in passing yards that season.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Any other points you want debunked?

You didn't debunk shyt.

It's my opinion that Brady would struggle vs. Belichick because of Beli's track record. For you to make it that

1. "i-i-i-i-it's a slight on Brady"
2. it's some sort of LEAP to say Brady would struggle in light of Beli's track record

That's on you. Either you say you don't agree with that opinion or you do. Telling me I shouldn't HAVE that opinion based on Beli's track record or you thinking I'm slighting Brady is pure ASS.


And yes...Peyton calls his OWN PLAYS

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/11/16/4626608/as-nfl-tries-to-mimic-peyton-manning.html

There was a time quarterbacks — from “Slingin’ Sammy” Baugh in the 1940s, to Johnny Unitas in the 1950s to Joe Namath in the 1960s — called their own plays and controlled the flow of the game. Then coaches took the game from the field generals by sending in plays and leaving it to defenses to win championships.

Not anymore. Not since Manning joined the Indianapolis Colts as the first pick of the 1998 NFL Draft. He has taken the game back to the future.

Manning’s ability to size up defenses in seconds and change and call plays at the line of scrimmage resembles the style of those old-school quarterbacks.

He has revolutionized the way offenses operate by spawning a new generation of quarterbacks, including Super Bowl winners Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers, who run hurry-up, spread-’em-out, no-huddle offenses that keep defenses on their heels.

“What Peyton has done is take the quarterback position really back in time,” said his former Indianapolis coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst for NBC.

Manning, in his second season in Denver, will bring the NFL’s most-prolific offense into tonight’s showdown against the unbeaten Chiefs. Denver leads the NFL in scoring and in total yardage, and Manning has thrown a league-most 33 touchdowns.

Dungy attributes Manning’s take-charge attitude, even as a young player, to growing up around the game as a son of former NFL quarterback Archie Manning.

“Because of his dad, he felt like as the quarterback, you’re in charge out there, and the big thing he never wanted to do was run bad plays,” Dungy said. “And so if we had a play call that he knew wasn’t going to work, he didn’t want to run it.

“And the more time he could have at the line of scrimmage, the more time he had to figure out whether the play was going to be good or bad. That was really the genesis of the whole no-huddle situation and the whole no-huddle offense and all the audibling. Not every quarterback coming up through the college ranks is trained that way, thought that way, but that’s what he wanted to do, and he has inspired a generation of quarterbacks who want to study and want to know and want to put their team in the right play.

“That has kind of spawned this whole no-huddle thing that’s gone all the way down to college football now.”

Manning said Tom Moore, his offensive coordinator in Indianapolis, gave him free rein to operate the offense as he saw fit.





You're now going to tell me Peyton isn't coordinating his team's entire offense?
You're going to argue with HIS coaches?


To win an argument in the coli?
You have debunked NOTHING.

 

[cook]

You didn't debunk shyt.

It's my opinion that Brady would struggle vs. Belichick because of Beli's track record. For you to make it that

1. "i-i-i-i-it's a slight on Brady"
2. it's some sort of LEAP to say Brady would struggle in light of Beli's track record

That's on you. Either you say you don't agree with that opinion or you do. Telling me I shouldn't HAVE that opinion based on Beli's track record or you thinking I'm slighting Brady is pure ASS.


And yes...Peyton calls his OWN PLAYS

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/11/16/4626608/as-nfl-tries-to-mimic-peyton-manning.html

There was a time quarterbacks — from “Slingin’ Sammy” Baugh in the 1940s, to Johnny Unitas in the 1950s to Joe Namath in the 1960s — called their own plays and controlled the flow of the game. Then coaches took the game from the field generals by sending in plays and leaving it to defenses to win championships.

Not anymore. Not since Manning joined the Indianapolis Colts as the first pick of the 1998 NFL Draft. He has taken the game back to the future.

Manning’s ability to size up defenses in seconds and change and call plays at the line of scrimmage resembles the style of those old-school quarterbacks.


He has revolutionized the way offenses operate by spawning a new generation of quarterbacks, including Super Bowl winners Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers, who run hurry-up, spread-’em-out, no-huddle offenses that keep defenses on their heels.

“What Peyton has done is take the quarterback position really back in time,” said his former Indianapolis coach Tony Dungy, now an analyst for NBC.

Manning, in his second season in Denver, will bring the NFL’s most-prolific offense into tonight’s showdown against the unbeaten Chiefs. Denver leads the NFL in scoring and in total yardage, and Manning has thrown a league-most 33 touchdowns.

Dungy attributes Manning’s take-charge attitude, even as a young player, to growing up around the game as a son of former NFL quarterback Archie Manning.

“Because of his dad, he felt like as the quarterback, you’re in charge out there, and the big thing he never wanted to do was run bad plays,” Dungy said. “And so if we had a play call that he knew wasn’t going to work, he didn’t want to run it.

“And the more time he could have at the line of scrimmage, the more time he had to figure out whether the play was going to be good or bad. That was really the genesis of the whole no-huddle situation and the whole no-huddle offense and all the audibling. Not every quarterback coming up through the college ranks is trained that way, thought that way, but that’s what he wanted to do, and he has inspired a generation of quarterbacks who want to study and want to know and want to put their team in the right play.

“That has kind of spawned this whole no-huddle thing that’s gone all the way down to college football now.”

Manning said Tom Moore, his offensive coordinator in Indianapolis, gave him free rein to operate the offense as he saw fit.





You're now going to tell me he isn't coordinating his team's entire offense?
You're going to argue with HIS coaches?



You have debunked NOTHING.

So because Belichick has had success against HOF QBs in the past you think that its 100% that Brady would struggle?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=291130018

Brees - 18/23 - 371 Yds 5 TDs

Maybe Tom would struggle...maybe he'd have a good game like Brees did. How can I argue against your personal prediction? Its simply that, a prediction.


A quote from Manning from that same article.

"And you work hard during the week in your preparation and your film study because you don’t want to let the offensive coordinator down if he gives you the green light to call some of your own plays.”

I thought he was the OC and he called ALL his own plays

 

[FTBS]

It's like you and @yseJ guys literally did not watch the early Patriots every week. It's either or because there is no way you can honestly believe what you're saying having watched the Pats every week. Tom Brady NEVER had the weapons to put up big numbers early on. He was never a "game manager." He did what made sense. You're sitting here mad at Tom Brady because he had Jermaine Wiggins, Troy Brown and David Patten and was putting up comparable numbers for the most part as Daunte with Moss and co. Peyton with Reggie, Marvin, Edge, Stokley in the slot, the best o-line in football, etc. Gannon in Oakland, Warner in STL, etc....

Here's what he did do: Brady's first season as a a full time starter: He led the NFL in TD passes, was 7th in yards per game (30 behind Peyton), had a better TD to INT ratio than Peyton Manning and had the exact same QB rating as Peyton. Leading receivers: Troy Brown and David Patten. Do you guys think that if Brady was somewhere around the 16th best in stats that somehow when he finally get beasts on offense in like his 8th year in the league...his per game stats would suddenly look so comparable to Peyton's . He was ALWAYS in the ball park. You usually don't hit up game managers to ask them how to break down a team the way Peyton used to hit up Brady (and vice versa).

It's just a horrible and biased argument and lets me know you're judging it off of how Peyton looks on the field and the narratives you hear vs. what actually happens. Peyton Manning does not do anything on the field that Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady don't. Stop running with this "he's the only OC" nonsense when Tom Brady is the only one of the bunch who can say that he literally played without an offensive coordinator before..oh yeah, and he led the NFL in passing yards that season.

He was a game manager. A GOAT caliber game manager based on the abilites he has displayed since but a game manager nonetheless. He was asked not to fukk it up and he didn't. Since then he's been given better weapons and greater responsibility and had some very Peyton like seasons (great stats during the regular season, not so great stats in the posteseason and an L). The game manager stuff is a result of people holding Brady's rings over Mannings head. He clearly wasn't being asked to do the same things back then. Now that he is he's having the same results and now nikkas are reduced to arguing about how shyt was 13 years ago.

 

[NYC Rebel]

So because Belichick has had success against HOF QBs in the past you think that its 100% that Brady would struggle?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=291130018

Brees - 18/23 - 371 Yds 5 TDs

Maybe Tom would struggle...maybe he'd have a good game like Brees did. How can I argue against your personal prediction? Its simply that, a prediction.


A quote from Manning from that same article.

"And you work hard during the week in your preparation and your film study because you don’t want to let the offensive coordinator down if he gives you the green light to call some of your own plays.”

I thought he was the OC and he called ALL his own plays

Yes.....Belichick's track record adds to my belief. It's my opinion based on it. Now you're telling me its IMPOSSIBLE to believe that based on his track record. It's UNFATHOMABLE to think Brady would struggle against him.



Brady has a history of struggling against Rex Ryans defenses. And you think Beli wouldn't do so? (Notice...I'm not giving Sanchez credit for "beating Brady" in the playoffs. That was Rex)

And yes...considering I myself have played football....you work with your offensive coordinator. But in Peyton's case....he CALLS THE PLAYS DURING THE GAME.

Do you know what "coordinator" means? Here's a clue:

"someone whose job is to make different groups work together in an organized way to achieve something"


Isn't that what he exactly does on game day? :

His OC helps devise schemes with him during the course of the week and film session, but to tell me that on Sunday that OC is responsible for play calling is out right

Peyton is his team's offensive coordinator bruh. His own coaches give him free reign.

 

[yseJ]

It's like you and @yseJ guys literally did not watch the early Patriots every week. It's either or because there is no way you can honestly believe what you're saying having watched the Pats every week. .

the fukk ? how did I make it into this list ? you stans really have one-braincell mindset
ask me if I disagree with you that brady had shyt weapons
I even said I prolly still take brady over manning in general
I also dont even believe making more difficult throws makes you a better qb...seriously why the fukk did you @ me ?

 

[NYC Rebel]

the fukk ? how did I make it into this list ? you stans really have one-braincell mindset
ask me if I disagree with you that brady had shyt weapons
I even said I prolly still take brady over manning in general
I also dont even believe making more difficult throws makes you a better qb...seriously why the fukk did you @ me ?

My thing is, I can see WHY someone would say Brady >>>> Manning. Completely. But that's not even my argument and dudes think I'm slighting him.

Cats get soccer mom over Brady's nuts bruh.

 

[JLova]

It's like you and @yseJ guys literally did not watch the early Patriots every week. It's either or because there is no way you can honestly believe what you're saying having watched the Pats every week. Tom Brady NEVER had the weapons to put up big numbers early on. He was never a "game manager." He did what made sense. You're sitting here mad at Tom Brady because he had Jermaine Wiggins, Troy Brown and David Patten and was putting up comparable numbers for the most part as Daunte with Moss and co. Peyton with Reggie, Marvin, Edge, Stokley in the slot, the best o-line in football, etc. Gannon in Oakland, Warner in STL, etc....

Here's what he did do: Brady's first season as a a full time starter: He led the NFL in TD passes, was 7th in yards per game (30 behind Peyton), had a better TD to INT ratio than Peyton Manning and had the exact same QB rating as Peyton. Leading receivers: Troy Brown and David Patten. Do you guys think that if Brady was somewhere around the 16th best in stats that somehow when he finally get beasts on offense in like his 8th year in the league...his per game stats would suddenly look so comparable to Peyton's . He was ALWAYS in the ball park. You usually don't hit up game managers to ask them how to break down a team the way Peyton used to hit up Brady (and vice versa).

It's just a horrible and biased argument and lets me know you're judging it off of how Peyton looks on the field and the narratives you hear vs. what actually happens. Peyton Manning does not do anything on the field that Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady don't. Stop running with this "he's the only OC" nonsense when Tom Brady is the only one of the bunch who can say that he literally played without an offensive coordinator before..oh yeah, and he led the NFL in passing yards that season.

I stopped reading when you said Brady didn't start off as a game manager. C'mon dude.

BTW, I'm not mad at Brady. Why would I be? Also, you bring up TD-INT ratios while completely ignoring what either QB was asked to do. Peyton was asked to go out there and win games. Brady was asked to not fukk up. The minute Brady's role changed, he stopped winning rings. It's much more difficullt when you are the offense and you can't play small ball.

There is no one that does what Peyton does...yes, not even Brady. at you disputing that.

I even called the mafugga "great" and that wasn't good enough for you. Would you have been happier if I deficated over this thread with brady>Manning? All I said is the head to head shyt that cats do with Peyton vs Brady is dumb since they do not play against each other.

 

[cook]

Yes.....Belichick's track record adds to my belief. It's my opinion based on it. Now you're telling me its IMPOSSIBLE to believe that based on his track record. It's UNFATHOMABLE to think Brady would struggle against him.



Brady has a history of struggling against Rex Ryans defenses. And you think Beli wouldn't do so? (Notice...I'm not giving Sanchez credit for "beating Brady" in the playoffs. That was Rex)

And yes...considering I myself have played football....you work with your offensive coordinator. But in Peyton's case....he CALLS THE PLAYS DURING THE GAME.

Do you know what "coordinator" means? Here's a clue:

"someone whose job is to make different groups work together in an organized way to achieve something"


Isn't that what he exactly does on game day? :

His OC helps devise schemes with him during the course of the week and film session, but to tell me that on Sunday that OC is responsible for play calling is out right

Peyton is his team's offensive coordinator bruh. His own coaches give him free reign.

When did I ever say its impossible or unfathomable that Brady would struggle?

The coaching lineage in Adam Gase suggests he is ready to call plays for Peyton Manning.

Gase is 34 and a first-time offensive coordinator after he was promoted Thursday by the Broncos from quarterbacks coach. Manning is 36 and has been calling plays in audible fashion for the past 14 seasons.

"I'm not nervous about calling plays," Gase said in a conference call Thursday. "You have one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time as your quarterback — I'm excited. I'm thrilled to be able to have that opportunity. We're looking to go pedal to the metal, and play as fast as possible and be aggressive."

Gase said he hasn't decided whether to call plays from the sideline, as McCoy did, or from the press box, as was Martz's preference.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_223928...adam-gase-offensive-coordinator#ixzz2oQBNmWys

 

[NYC Rebel]

When did I ever say its impossible or unfathomable that Brady would struggle?

by pointing out one good game by Brees is if its an impossibility. The point is...I'm looking at Beli's history. I don't get your response telling me otherwise.



http://www.denverpost.com/ci_223928...adam-gase-offensive-coordinator#ixzz2oQBNmWys

That's nice and all, but it's his job to say he's working, yet it's Peyton calling all the plays at the LOS. Amazing how players like Knowshow Moreno were on their death beds as NFL players until Peyton showed up and gets a scrub like him to take advantage of mismatches at the LOS that otherwise weren't being called prior to Peyton's arrival.

He's the OC. The other's are there in name only and to help scheme during the week.

Amazing how these responses suddenly don't have the "You're cleverly shytting on Brady" shyt. That's what happens when you actually respond to what's being said and not feelings.

 

[SuperNintendo Chalmers]

Good point. Good thread. Never thought of it that way.

 

[Snitchin Splatter]

I believe the way Peyton has and still works is that he doesn't get playcalls out of nowhere on his own. The OC calls 3 plays, 2 possible passes and a run, and Peyton runs the best play based off of those 3 options. He can tinker stuff within each play but he is reigned in somewhat so I wouldn't consider him a true offensive coordinator. He is checked by his coaches still and was shown to defer to them at times. John Fox is notoriously cautious and this has shown throughout Peytons stay with the Broncos. He is the closest thing to a Player/Coach we'll ever see again though

 

[Lakers Offseason]

That's nice and all, but it's his job to say he's working, yet it's Peyton calling all the plays at the LOS. Amazing how players like Knowshow Moreno were on their death beds as NFL players until Peyton showed up and gets a scrub like him to take advantage of mismatches at the LOS that otherwise weren't being called prior to Peyton's arrival.

He's the OC. The other's are there in name only and to help scheme during the week.

Amazing how these responses suddenly don't have the "You're cleverly shytting on Brady" shyt. That's what happens when you actually respond to what's being said and not feelings.

I stopped replying to this thread cause you started catching feelings breh but imma jump in real quick.

The only thing you've done is look at the matchup in a different light.

Someone else could look at this matchup as Crennel vs Peyton. Crennel was the Pats DC when they consistently beat Peyton. And when he was with the Browns, held Peyton to 13 pts in 2005, 10 pts in 2008 and 19 points when he was with KC.

Coincidentally, the Pats defense have struggled against a Peyton led offense since Crennel left

But you do your Jet's fan logic on this issue

 

[cook]

That's nice and all, but it's his job to say he's working, yet it's Peyton calling all the plays at the LOS. Amazing how players like Knowshow Moreno were on their death beds as NFL players until Peyton showed up and gets a scrub like him to take advantage of mismatches at the LOS that otherwise weren't being called prior to Peyton's arrival.

He's the OC. The other's are there in name only and to help scheme during the week.

Amazing how these responses suddenly don't have the "You're cleverly shytting on Brady" shyt. That's what happens when you actually respond to what's being said and not feelings.

I'm not telling you otherwise about Brady vs Belichick, I'm telling you that im not going to argue about a hypothetical situation. Theres no point.

lol @ saying NFL coordinators are only that in name like its some illuminati cover up that Manning is doing his job for him

You don't seem to understand the difference between having free reign to audible out of a called play and 100% being the "playcaller" Having free reign to audible is not exclusive to Manning and therefore I find it a slight to Brady, Brees, Rodgers and anyone else who has that ability to refer to Manning as an OC.

Amazing how your going to claim Manning is dealing with a scrub like Moreno. Maybe the Broncos should sign Laurence Maroney off his deathbed, i heard he's available.

Amazing how you're finally responding to the Peyton is an OC topic after ducking it for so many pages (now i see why you were ducking it for so long )

 

[NYC Rebel]

I'm not telling you otherwise about Brady vs Belichick, I'm telling you that im not going to argue about a hypothetical situation. Theres no point

You made it a point to bring up a successful game Brees had against The Pats as if it was counter argument to something.

lol @ saying NFL coordinators are only that in name like its some illuminati cover up that Manning is doing his job for him

What OC in the right mind is going to openly say they're there to assist Peyton when they have their own futures to work on? We read Peyton being credited for calling his own plays harkening back to the days of past qbs that did the same thing...where even Tom Moore Admits that Peyton could admit that Peyton can call what he wants. Let's take the word of the newbie OC trying to make a name for himself.

You don't seem to understand the difference between having free reign to audible out of a called play and 100% being the "playcaller" Having free reign to audible is not exclusive to Manning and therefore I find it a slight to Brady, Brees, Rodgers and anyone else who has that ability to refer to Manning as an OC.

I've been a part of drawn up game plans personally being coached by past NFL coaches. I know full well about that 168 hour work week. You Dumbing it down to simply audibling is your problem. It's Peyton that's meeting with advance scouts on Mondays that share their reviews of that weeks opponents, not other NFL qbs. It's Peyton with the coaches watching film cut up on Mondays.....NOT other NFL qbs. It's Peyton that meets with the offensive staff separately on Tuesdays working on cues they picked up on film session on Monday...not other NFL qbs. For every other NFL qb, it's Wednesday when practice focuses in plays they might run..and that's only for what coaches plan to use On first and second downs. Pat Kirwn talked about his time in he NFL where he states Peyton is the only qb he knows where the ENTIRE OFFENSE is available to him at the LOS. THATS the difference with Peyton....So don't give me this bullshyt bruh. check yourself. I've been a part of actual game plans created by NFL coaching staffs my dude.

Amazing how your going to claim Manning is dealing with a scrub like Moreno. Maybe the Broncos should sign Laurence Maroney off his deathbed, i heard he's available.

Ask yourself why Moreno wasn't doing shyt when coached by the young "genius" OC prior to Peyton's arrival and was on the verge of being cut.

Amazing how you're finally responding to the Peyton is an OC topic after ducking it for so many pages (now i see why you were ducking it for so long )

I laid out my facts bruh about what makes Peyton different from every other qb from he start of the work week until Sunday. No qb invests more time from top to bottom than him.

And to the clowns saying the pats defense fell off since Crenell left...Funny....it wasn't "Brady" that Peyton and Dungy cried about ggoing to NFL Offices saying the pats were getting away with shyt. It was beli defense that he specifically schemed for with Ty Law and them that he would throw out during the playoffs. The SAME shyt he did with the Giants and years prior. And y'all wonder why there's been an uptick on scoring on Beli now? It was Peyton's crying that's mostly responsible