Since we're giving opinions, here are some of mine.
Shawn was better at:
Talking. Heel or face. Can you imagine Bret in the role of a commissioner like HBK was during 98-99? How boring would those segments have been. Bret was dry as fukk on the mic. His only good interviews were when he was portraying a bitter old wrestler in 1997, which was basically a shoot.
the commissioner role,.....
hbk, was never a legend or made some strides as a promo that distanced or elongated his legacy.
so, why would you bring up that kernel.
also,...bret is better at the swerve than hbk as a reoccurring talent.
evidenced by his mania beatdown in a cast angle on vkm.
which is recent,...
with hbk,...all their shyt is completely fukk'n obvious fukkery.
that a child could recognize as soon as,..
chu think i'm cute, plays.
plus, their political agenda, and ability to not let another draw show dominance over them mires that era.
when, this is a worked environment.
as they did not close out angles, in the pocket of the work.
that were a draw like bret when he came back, either.
case in point,...
you bring up the gm role.
yet, gloss over the fact.
the clique and hbk, never closed out angles like bret.
plus, gloss over the fact,...
his gm was not impactful.
plus, ignore when he made impact during the boom period, as a reoccurring talent.
then, failed to follow up.
DRAKE : REMEMBER!!!
hbk superkicks the rock as the ref.
that never had a payoff,..
at least, with bret.
he would have never let an angle like that not go to close with his political power.
as bret would have done what was right for the business.
if, he was not lied to and emotionally attached.
with hbk,..we have to sit in the wings and hope for a close to an angle like that.
case in point....
why is there no actual content on db vs hbk.
when the same style of superkick ending transpired just recently.
yet, no actual real quality content to build a work that draws and pays off.
in the pocket of the actual work, that would be sufficient.
now, if they tease a build later on for mania, versus db/hbk.
it still occurs weeks after, a much needed follow up.
PYRRHUS 88 said:
Wrestling. Both were great, but Shawn had more variety in what he did. He simply could do more. Why do you think so many ACTUAL wrestlers cite Shawn as the GOAT? Do you know wrestlingbetter thn Stone Cold Steve Austin does? Do you think Undertaker would let just anyone piledrive him on steel steps on two seperate occasions?
HBK is GOAT level status whenever you hear actual wrestlers speak on it, so why would I take your opinion above theirs?
Saying "this is a fact" after stating an opinion doesn't make it a fact.
you are talembout wrassler who have long term heat with the goat B, to austin's higher drawing GOAT A level.
or, in austin's case he is completely humble about his career.
plus, undertaker has never forgave the heat and lack of attention in wcw.
so, he will never be vocal about the workers better than him in wcw.
like sting, mick, vader, rude to flair.
so, i can't take you citing them.
as it is a personal bias they have actually publically talked about.
as scsa has said he has a bit of residual heat for flair, and wcw.
hbk,...really real talk,...
was never better than pillman, before injury, as a worker, either.
to the point,..pillman's actual on screen character was another catalyst along with bret.
that was the definitive moment in the history of all televised wrasslin.
it is just pillman did not live long enough, and was not healthy long enough.
to solidify the talking points hbk has since hbk came back.
when, it comes to taker.
he has never forgiven wcw.
oh which, he was always vocal about how he was not higher on the card, and the admin issues there.
on top of other wrasslers, having severe personal heat with flair long term.
that can never be repaired.
plus, publically was so extreme.
that, i really can not listen to them objectively talk about workrate, or who is the goat.
as everyone has extreme heat for flair.
plus, bias against wcw/nwa/crockett.
that finding an objective non-emotionally invested comments may never happen.
PYRRHUS 88 said:
So HBGOAT's feud with Razor Ramon was the same template as his feud with, say, Undetaker in 97? And those were both the same template as his feud with Undetaker in 09/10? And all of those were the same template as his feuds with Jericho? And all of those were the same template as his feuds with HHH? Utter nonsense. Surely you don't even believe what you're saying. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just got on a roll and went with it.
The razor feud was built off of components of razor's braintrust from flair.
plus, bret's stampede ladder match.
where the actual discovery zone for the ladder match was presented by bret.
to hbk and the higher up's via video package from past stampede works. to illustrate what a ladder match was.
there is even footage of bret, discussing the match with hbk, too.
so, that razor/hbk feud is based off of stampede style booking...
which is bret's brain trust.
undertaker/hbk = west texas redneck booking.......
the guy with the look hulks up....
with no real technical psychology inring.
also,..the elaborate steel cage match with a detailed work is stampede wrasslin, too.
bret was not using a braintrust from others.
as bret is the in the same regard or higher as a worker from his homeland, and all of wrassling.
the jericho feud is a stampede style feud.
the eye thing is an old stampede conflict building staple.
that is not new, and on top of that...
jericho asked for that feud, and developed it.
so, right there....
that is from bret's braintrust.
which allowed stampede guys to pitch ideas to the upper brass.
as stampede guys have a track record for drawing, with elaborate works since the days of the gypsy's.
PYRRHUS 88 said:
More opinions. You're in a minority if you think that at any time in his wrestling career, Shawn MIchaels was "just there". Hopefully you realize that.
Statements like this just make you seem like an out and out hater, plain and simple.
Not that his opinion is gospel by any means, but here's a list of matches rated 4.5 stars and higher by Meltzer.
http://www.profightdb.com/top-rated-matches.html
# of Shawn Michaels matches: 8
# of Bret Hart matches: 3
Your view that HBK never did anything for the in-ring legacy of the WWF/E is an extreme minority view, at best.The shades were cool.
[/QUOTE]
i am known as the meltzer of this place, though....
plus, people have said publically on this board i am better than duke.
so, what are you saying......
art barr
