Jay -Z being the undisputed goat is a narrative created by the corporations he works for

[Big Boss]

Pac >

But after that Jay has a legit argument, top 3 mandatory IMO.

What about Eminem

 

[Lhark]

Why do yall always have to conjure up a conspiracy theory around this man

 

[Ethnic Vagina Finder]

Not a lot of his music has replay value. The only album that didn’t rely on the in style sound was Blueprint and 4:44. And most songs produced by Kanye, No I.D. And a few others.

 

[BronxBomber]

I have no dog in this fight but your comment reminded me of when Rick Rubin described the writing processes of Jay and Eminem.

He said Eminem would jot a whole bunch of shyt down in his notepad before recording.

And Jay would close his eyes, do this weird hum, and he'll just spit the lyrics out with no lyrics written down.

Crabs in a barrel hating

Yes, Em is another story while is talented, a dope MC, but has hugely benefited from being a white artist. Thats not really my position. And even then jotting something down and just humming and having a masterpiece after 15 min is beyond a beautiful mind.

@Street Knowledge its crazy because instead of bigging up his accomplishments and talent the community tries to find the negative to highlight. Even though at this point Im beyond the collective community but thats another conversation, only because the lack of all around discipline thirst for knowledge education etc - Im an old head so I know will sound old headish and it is, but with the grey hairs you start realizing the trickery is subtle most of the times.

 

[TheOptimisticCynikal]

at his wifes shows

I don't wanna quote Drake, but we both know the flaw in this

Jay has 20+ year old records that still get play on the radio, clubs, everywhere in NYC

Fixed.
Now and then Dirt Off Your Shoulder, Empire State of Mind, and a few other hits may get plays somewhere outside NYC. Hell, I hear songs off Maga Carter Holy Grail more than his old catelogue and ppl hated that when it came out (I think it's Jay's best post 2010s work)

Listen man, huge Jay Z fan, but his reign (that some would argue if it even was a reign) had questionable moments

Not hating, to his credit, JAY Z literally gave the Blueprint to how to make money out of rap during a time when black artists were being fukked over. That in itself should make him immortal in black culture. He definitely is an important figure, but Hip Hop Goat? I'm sorry, there are just many better candidates even within his own class if we're talking rapping, and even that is multifaceted i.e Will.i.am's black thought take which he was not shouted down at as a ridiculous take.

People are even debating rn if Future, musically, had a greater influence and they're not wrong.

Who did JAY Z flawlessly defeat in a memorable rap beef (lyrics wise, not silly non-music shyt)?

Was JAY Z sound so undeniable that an artist later down the line was inspired by it and took it further? (I.e Travis Scott with Kid Cudi, Young Thug, Lil Uzi Vert, any popular rapper post-2010 with Lil Wayne, any lyrical Atl rapper with Andre 3000)

What sound did HOV have (that was genuinely recognized as his thing) and can you still find traces of that in today's hip hop? IMO maybe Pusha T and Clipse. Big maybe. Jay hopped on whatever sound was hot at the time and has had multiple occasions where he misread the culture, damn near sounding like he was a Confederate general in a past life with his veiled, dog-whistle disses to Southern hip hop culture and artist. (money phone critique, death of auto tune, "playing Future with yo kids")

 

[Cladyclad]

I don't wanna quote Drake, but we both know the flaw in this


Fixed.
Now and then Dirt Off Your Shoulder, Empire State of Mind, and a few other hits may get plays somewhere outside NYC. Hell, I hear songs off Maga Carter Holy Grail more than his old catelogue and ppl hated that when it came out (I think it's Jay's best post 2010s work)

Listen man, huge Jay Z fan, but his reign (that some would argue if it even was a reign) had questionable moments

Not hating, to his credit, JAY Z literally gave the Blueprint to how to make money out of rap during a time when black artists were being fukked over. That in itself should make him immortal in black culture. He definitely is an important figure, but Hip Hop Goat? I'm sorry, there are just many better candidates even within his own class if we're talking rapping, and even that is multifaceted i.e Will.i.am's black thought take which he was not shouted down at as a ridiculous take.

People are even debating rn if Future, musically, had a greater influence and they're not wrong.

Who did JAY Z flawlessly defeat in a memorable rap beef (lyrics wise, not silly non-music shyt)?

Was JAY Z sound so undeniable that an artist later down the line was inspired by it and took it further? (I.e Travis Scott with Kid Cudi, Young Thug, Lil Uzi Vert, any popular rapper post-2010 with Lil Wayne, any lyrical Atl rapper with Andre 3000)

What sound did HOV have (that was genuinely recognized as his thing) and can you still find traces of that in today's hip hop? IMO maybe Pusha T and Clipse. Big maybe. Jay hopped on whatever sound was hot at the time and has had multiple occasions where he misread the culture, damn near sounding like he was a Confederate general in a past life with his veiled, dog-whistle disses to Southern hip hop culture and artist. (money phone critique, death of auto tune, "playing Future with yo kids")

What sound did he hop on?

 

[Controversy]

What sound did he hop on?

Swizz Beats Ruff Ryders

I'd argue that the BP was an evolved more polished version of Sigel's The Reason

The AG beats were bad boy beats meant for BIG

Vol 1 was full of bad boy beats

 

[Cladyclad]

Swizz Beats Ruff Ryders

I'd argue that the BP was an evolved more polished version of Sigel's The Reason

The AG beats were bad boy beats meant for BIG

Vol 1 was full of bad boy beats

he Got a beat from a producer lol

same as Nas

same as scarface

i can keep going

jay the only person not allowed to work with anyone lol

 

[SunZoo]

I don't wanna quote Drake, but we both know the flaw in this


Fixed.
Now and then Dirt Off Your Shoulder, Empire State of Mind, and a few other hits may get plays somewhere outside NYC. Hell, I hear songs off Maga Carter Holy Grail more than his old catelogue and ppl hated that when it came out (I think it's Jay's best post 2010s work)

Listen man, huge Jay Z fan, but his reign (that some would argue if it even was a reign) had questionable moments

Not hating, to his credit, JAY Z literally gave the Blueprint to how to make money out of rap during a time when black artists were being fukked over. That in itself should make him immortal in black culture. He definitely is an important figure, but Hip Hop Goat? I'm sorry, there are just many better candidates even within his own class if we're talking rapping, and even that is multifaceted i.e Will.i.am's black thought take which he was not shouted down at as a ridiculous take.

People are even debating rn if Future, musically, had a greater influence and they're not wrong.

Who did JAY Z flawlessly defeat in a memorable rap beef (lyrics wise, not silly non-music shyt)?

Was JAY Z sound so undeniable that an artist later down the line was inspired by it and took it further? (I.e Travis Scott with Kid Cudi, Young Thug, Lil Uzi Vert, any popular rapper post-2010 with Lil Wayne, any lyrical Atl rapper with Andre 3000)

What sound did HOV have (that was genuinely recognized as his thing) and can you still find traces of that in today's hip hop? IMO maybe Pusha T and Clipse. Big maybe. Jay hopped on whatever sound was hot at the time and has had multiple occasions where he misread the culture, damn near sounding like he was a Confederate general in a past life with his veiled, dog-whistle disses to Southern hip hop culture and artist. (money phone critique, death of auto tune, "playing Future with yo kids")

negged

 

[Ducktales]

BIG really is so much better than Jay Z to me. Jay Z not a weak rapper in no sense. But the wit , humor, and charisma BIG had was just supreme. In no way does reasonable doubt match up to ready to die or Illmatic. Jay Z is a phenomenal rapper , but this revisionist shyt just because he became a billionaire basically and affirmed his status in rap culture on a different level that in some people’s minds they give him additional credit as a MC. Bro is at most #3 best NY rapper if we keeping it a buck. He ain’t fukkin with BIG or Nas . I only hear this from people from the northeast .

 

[SunZoo]

What about Eminem

I got him at the bottom half of the top 10. Top 20 worst, objecively.

 

[SunZoo]

BIG really is so much better than Jay Z to me. Jay Z not a weak rapper in no sense. But the wit and charisma BIG had was just supreme. In no way does reasonable doubt match up to ready to die or Illmatic. Jay Z is a phenomenal rapper , but this revisionist shyt just because he became a billionaire basically and affirmed his status in rap culture on a different level that in some people’s minds they give him additional credit as a MC. Bro is #3 best NY rapper if we keeping it a buck.

Jay was better than BIG when he was alive at outside of that generational voice/delivery and Jay improved upon that up to his peak.

 

[Mr 18]

Jay Z's catalog is wildly overreated.

Classic Albums: The Blueprint, Reasonable Doubt
Good Albums: American Gangster, The Black Album, Vol 2
Average Albums: Vol 1, Vol 3,
Mid to Trash: 4:44, BP2, BP3, Maga Carter, Everything is Everything, Best of Both Worlds 1 and 2.

Jay's career from 2008 to current has been awful.

His catalog isn't overrated. The consensus is he only 2 classics, a few good albums and a lot of mid to trash projects, like you said.

 

[28 Gramz]

Was there ever a year where Jay Z was the clear cut best rapper alive?

 

[Controversy]

he Got a beat from a producer lol

same as Nas

same as scarface

i can keep going

jay the only person not allowed to work with anyone lol

He saw X scorching hot with Ruff Ryders anthem and got Money, Cash, Hoes...hopped on Ruff Ryders Soundtrack for Jigga Amy nikka...and Girl's Best Friend

In 98 & 99, Ruff Ryders >>> Rocafella

He made sure he got 3 singles from Swizz when RR was on fire

That's why Nas clowned him for not having an identity

He didn't know if he wanted to be big, nas, a ruff Ryder, from Philly...just constant identity crisis