Jay -Z being the undisputed goat is a narrative created by the corporations he works for

[Awesome Wells]

musics subjective so I cant argue with you past that

but I will say like I said,...Jay literly has 1 great project in the last 17 years ( since american gangster ) thats it which is insane

He's only done 4 albums since '07.

I listen to AG and 4:44 all the time. They're both classics, to me.

Nas has 9 albums since '07. Only two I f*ck with, are Life Is Good and Magic.

This is what I mean about the ratio, lol. Nas has a ton of music that's just mad forgettable, to me. When was the last time anyone threw on HHID or Street's Disciple? Nasir? Untitled? I'm just being real, I was the biggest Nas fan ever, but dude went on this run when he started making whole albums I just couldn't f*ck with.

 

[Rekkapryde]

Every legend wasn't there.

But even if they were, that doesn't mean he has to do something because everyone else is doing it, lol.

The dudes that did show up were arguing over who got paid more and who got more time onstage than this one and that one. Them being there and bickering over money is a clear sign that that way to celebrate ain't for everybody. There was all kinds of beefing that followed the celebration. Over money and time onstage. That's not the kinda sh*t every MC wants to deal with.

Didn't have to perform with others

 

[Red Money]

the exhibit shyt is dope (didn't know), but you can't perform once when you are a RAPPER and claim to be the greatest RAPPER. And literally every other legend in rap performed? Nah man. It comes off as very snooty and thinking it's beneath you.

i don't agree with him not performing.

Michael Jordan and Kobe did the dunk contest. LeBron didn't do the dunk contest. Sometimes it seems like Jay is like the Bron of rap and not really Jordan.

But to be fair. It was various events/celebrations for hip hop 50:

https://www.grammy.com/news/50th-anniversary-hip-hop-events-concerts-exhibits-music-list-nyc-atlanta-texas-washington-dc

 

[I'm Blackman]

You just said he didn't acknowledge the artform and culture that made him who he is.

The exhibit was giving props and respect to guys like DJ Premier, Def Jam, Kool Herc, Caz, B.I.G., Red Alert, Melle Mel, Kid Capri, Rick Rubin, Big Daddy Kane, Russell Simmons, Tribe, Run DMC, Larry Smith, XXL, The Source, Rap Pages, etc. He literally collected mad artifacts from all types of sh*t, including a remodel of D&D Studios and had all of these influences on display to celebrate how Hip Hop changed his life and the lives of others and had whole sections dedicated to all of these people who shaped the culture.

He did a lot more than just jump on stage. He gave something to the people to come visit and learn about Hip Hop's history. The exhibit was dope AF.

Didnt know that about the bolded. I dont live in Brooklyn to just go check it out. I saw the exhibit from the interview he did with Gayle King. I thought it was just about his career, I didnt know it was giving other people love. Thats dope. Jay loves hiphop clearly....dude made a twitter thread giving crazy people props. I seen a vid of where he crossed paths with Rakim and hugged him; his love and reverence for Ra was evident. When people were performing that hiphop melody at the grammys he was crunk as hell.

I do agree with @Rekkapryde tho....I would have loved a performance.

I dont think Jay thinks hes bigger than the art form but people use at times for talking points. I got this old XXL mag at the crib where Jay in all black with the black Jesus piece and the tag line said "With over 40 million sold, businesses,and Beyonce...is Jay Z bigger than hiphop?" Now he didnt say that, they did, and he's said countless times how hiphop saved his life.

 

[Rekkapryde]

Didnt know that about the bolded. I dont live in Brooklyn to just go check it out. I saw the exhibit from the interview he did with Gayle King. I thought it was just about his career, I didnt know it was giving other people love. Thats dope. Jay loves hiphop clearly....dude made a twitter thread giving crazy people props. I seen a vid of where he crossed paths with Rakim and hugged him; his love and reverence for Ra was evident. When people were performing that hiphop melody at the grammys he was crunk as hell.

I do agree with @Rekkapryde tho....I would have loved a performance.

I dont think Jay thinks hes bigger than the art form but people use at times for talking points. I got this old XXL mag at the crib where Jay in all black with the black Jesus piece and the tag line said "With over 40 million sold, businesses,and Beyonce...is Jay Z bigger than hiphop?" Now he didnt say that, they did, and he's said countless times how hiphop saved his life.

Cam'ron said something I found interesting

He said although Jay is a very gifted all time great rapper, he doesn't believe he loves hip hop "like that". I understood what he meant

 

[Figaro]

Stop caring about GOAT narratives getting pushed by corporations & just enjoy the music breh.

 

[Supa]

My issue with Jay is everyone acts like he's this supreme lyricist yet when I go back to his albums I don't hear that.

I play RD from time to time and it's not close to Nas on Illmatic or Big on Ready to Die. That's why I laugh at the revisionist history that RD was a classic like those two. In real time no one I was interacting with held that album at that level. He didn't get 5 mics. It was another one of those well respected albums but not with those two or even 36 Chambers, The Infamous, or OB4CL. Those albums had NY in a frenzy.

I remember when he dropped the "argue all day about Biggie, Jay Z, or Nas" line and everyone in school laughing because none of us ever has that argument. It was Big vs Nas. Jay wasn't in that convo yet. I had that argument with a bunch of older guys from BK and they all said Jay was bugging. Everyone has different names to throw out as the best but no Jay. Rakim, G Rap, and Kane came up. Hell, a few of them even said Redman but it was mostly Big vs Nas. Jay wasn't winning BK with Big still alive.

I play Blueprint and Jay was rhyming even simpler. A lot of his old music hasn't aged that well lyrically. An album like IWW is still a masterpiece lyrically in 2025.

 

[I'm Blackman]

Cam'ron said something I found interesting

He said although Jay is a very gifted all time great rapper, he doesn't believe he loves hip hop "like that". I understood what he meant

I feel you. I heard Cam say that in comparison to Nas. I think they both love it.

Nas made hiphop is dead (a hiphop love letter basically or hate letter depending on your view), hes pushing legends right now with mass appeal, Ive seen Nas in vids talk about MC Shan like hes superman, seen him gush over Scarface lines,etc.

But I think Jay shows his love via things like trying to empower artists, boycotting the grammys back in the day, opening doors (think hard knock life tour when rap tours were seen as a liability), helping to get artists out of bad contracts, Wayne, Scarface (one of my goats) have said how that man helped them financially.

So they both love it, they just love different lol. One difference is Jay is a hustler (or capitalist take your pick) through and through...hes gonna find a way (usually) to monetize or further what hes trying to do business wise.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Cam'ron said something I found interesting

He said although Jay is a very gifted all time great rapper, he doesn't believe he loves hip hop "like that". I understood what he meant

Cam doesn't like Jay. So I wouldn't take anything he says seriously.

But I think Jay's actions actually prove otherwise. He does sh*t for the people. The actual fans. Nobody loves the culture more than he does. He fights to get people out of bad deals, helps artists negotiate more ownership of their music, funds all kinds of sh*t to help rappers and indie artists, etc. Not to mention how he does crazy sh*t behind the scenes for artists that he literally never speaks on. Pays medical bills, gets people out of foreclosure, pays off debts for rappers, etc.

He's the most pro-Hip-Hop legend we have. Because he does sh*t and doesn't even speak on it. The people do. But again, weirdos will always find some way to hate on that too. It's jealousy.

 

[Cladyclad]

Cam'ron said something I found interesting

He said although Jay is a very gifted all time great rapper, he doesn't believe he loves hip hop "like that". I understood what he meant

Camron a damn dummy. Jay was doing radio freestyles after selling 20 million

trading shots with Jayo and Meeno

dropping a album every year for 12 years straight

listening to every artist music to understand what’s going on. Dude got a rusty waters line on one of his records. 99/100 won’t even know them. He help blow up UGK

besides LL Jay was the only other artist to really take being the guy serious back then. SO idk wtf cam was saying about that.

everyone at Roc said this cat would listen like once or twice and know all their lyrics


thats love.

 

[I'm Blackman]

My issue with Jay is everyone acts like he's this supreme lyricist yet when I go back to his albums I don't hear that.

I play RD from time to time and it's not close to Nas on Illmatic or Big on Ready to Die. That's why I laugh at the revisionist history that RD was a classic like those two. In real time no one I was interacting with held that album at that level. He didn't get 5 mics. It was another one of those well respected albums but not with those two or even 36 Chambers, The Infamous, or OB4CL. Those albums had NY in a frenzy.

I remember when he dropped the "argue all day about Biggie, Jay Z, or Nas" line and everyone in school laughing because none of us ever has that argument. It was Big vs Nas. Jay wasn't in that convo yet. I had that argument with a bunch of older guys from BK and they all said Jay was bugging. Everyone has different names to throw out as the best but no Jay. Rakim, G Rap, and Kane came up. Hell, a few of them even said Redman but it was mostly Big vs Nas. Jay wasn't winning BK with Big still alive.

I play Blueprint and Jay was rhyming even simpler. A lot of his old music hasn't aged that well lyrically. An album like IWW is still a masterpiece lyrically in 2025.

Interesting post and perspective from a New Yorker. Rep.

Blueprint is a classic, but the production is the star of the show for that album. When i want lyrical Jay...RD, Vol 1, TBA, and AG are my go to albums.

As far as how his music aging, to me its the production. His songs albums with soul samples or instrumentation sound dope to me still, but some of the "hot picks" of the time sound dated.

 

[Rekkapryde]

Camron a damn dummy. Jay was doing radio freestyles after selling 20 million

trading shots with Jayo and Meeno

dropping a album every year for 12 years straight

listening to every artist music to understand what’s going on. Dude got a rusty waters line on one of his records. 99/100 won’t even know them. He help blow up UGK

besides LL Jay was the only other artist to really take being the guy serious back then. SO idk wtf cam was saying about that.

everyone at Roc said this cat would listen like once or twice and know all their lyrics


thats love.

Just believe he should have performed during HH50. That's all. To call yourself the and not perform was disappointing is my point.

 

[Awesome Wells]

My issue with Jay is everyone acts like he's this supreme lyricist yet when I go back to his albums I don't hear that.

I play RD from time to time and it's not close to Nas on Illmatic or Big on Ready to Die.

You my guy, but RD has some of Hip Hop's best displays of lyricism on a debut ever.

It's like Sauce Money said, the amount of lines on that sh*t that people still don’t get, is crazy.

"Money make the world go around, so I made some to spend (spin)".
"About his whereabouts, I wasn't convinced, I kept feeding her money 'til her sh*t started to make sense (cents)."

B.I.G. is my GOAT, but Jay was f*cking next level with the rhymes on RD.

 

[ajnapoleon]

As an avid JAY Z fan, as I've said in other threads, time has not been kind to Jay's catalogue or the argument of being best rapper alive.

And speaking as a fan, if we truly were to peel back the layers, his goat claim looks worse and worse on the Summer jam screen really examining things.

Quick example: How did NY lose hip hop to the South under his reign?



Not saying that was his responsibility or that falls on him, but it does make you wonder

Under what reign?


This is the Coli


Jay is NOT being played in the south


A few years ago no one played him in Oakland or LA


Beans was the real spitter on the rock

Dame said Kanye was the best and biggest and most important artist on the roc

Choke and dame said Jay stole songs


Matter of fact black thought is a trillion times better



What are we talking about a 55 year old man that never been on top of the game ever

 

[Cladyclad]

Just believe he should have performed during HH50. That's all. To call yourself the and not perform was disappointing is my point.

even in my absence my presence is felt
that got to tell you I’m the king if nothing else


all those legends there and

jay was the topic of every nail shop