Jay-Z: How can the "GOAT" Always come in "2nd??" - The ULTIMATE Devils Advocate Thread

[Free White & 21]

his best album, vol 2, had him being outclassed on every track. I really couldnt care about album sales and google hits. when sheek has 2 verses over you, youre beyond poverty.

Jaz-o on nikka What

 

[JuvenileHell]

this thread was a great read.

@really making camel stans tap out with the camel clutch #factsonly
@really and @ROFL_GUY going back and forth like Rae and Ghost on Heaven and Hell...the chemistry
@Art Barr coming through and dropping knowledge and science

Powerful thread

 

[vaudevillevillain]

of course Jay won't look as great when you highlight all his shortcomings..

but the race is not just for the swift. but those who can endure. jay has been for a while now shifting the culture in many ways, i'm too lazy to make a post as long as yours but i'm sure you know this. and whoever says he didn't participate in the greatest rap battle in the history of the genre is straight up lying. he spawned greats like kanye west. who in turn inspired/spawned greats like drake, j. cole, kid cudi & alot of other new school cats holding it down. he's held his own amongst all these '1st place' rappers you've mentioned, and even changed up his style many, many times while still being hot. his core fanbase will always be there, but let's not act like alot of people don't fukk with hov's music or knows who he is. he is a legend. no other rapper has been on top (in the limelight, relevant, making good music) for as long as he has. i don't even care about his number one albums. he has been doing this since 96 and is still around in 2013 bein bumped by the younger generation. you want facts? high school nikkas aint bumping no nas. snoop dogg. cam'ron. no disrespect to those legends but you catch my drift... jay-z is the rapper's rapper, the hustler's hustler, the perfect merge of streets & corporate... the GOAT

 

[Ziggiy]

When it's all said and done, culturally speaking, the ONLY rapper that can be put in the same breath as Jay-Z is the Kid Wave himself, the King Of Queensbridge Nasir Bin Olu Dara Jones.


NOBODY is putting Nelly in a Goat conversation, no matter how many number 1 pop hits he churned out.

Ja Rule DMX the Crackhead Cacinem NONE of these rappers have had the consistency of success that Jigga has been able to sustain. We can talk quality of music all day long, that's what these boards are for, but when it comes to consistency the ONLY other rapper that's had consistent success from 1994-2013 is Nas. This nikka Jay is going platinum in 2013. SEVENTEEN years after his debut album. The Fugees released their LAST album in that year, Lauryn Hill is a crazy bag lady with 15 kids now. Pac and Big are dead. 50 Cent couldn't last 10 years as a mainstream artist. Nelly couldn't sustain a career pass 5 albums. Lil Wayne is Jay-Z's b*stard retarded southern offspring, T.I. Is on reality television Luda can get a movie released before he can get an album release date.


I mean you HAVE to give credit where it due, All those other artists reign on top was shorter than leprechauns. Some of them do not have ONE classic to their names (Lauryn Hill being the exception and perhaps X) all they have is sales, and not even consistent sales.

A Jigga Stan has a certain verifiable argument when they make the claim to Jigga's Goat candidacy. Imagine having a SERIOUS debate with a fukking Nelly Stan Or a Luda Stan Or worse yet, a fukking Cacinem or 50 Stan On claims to greatness, their mostly laughed out of the conversation if they were even brave (or stupid) enough to have it at all. That's because it's known and recognized where they stand in Hip Hop history, and it's DEFINITELY not on Jigga's level

 

[Cloud McFly]

When it's all said and done, culturally speaking, the ONLY rapper that can be put in the same breath as Jay-Z is the Kid Wave himself, the King Of Queensbridge Nasir Bin Olu Dara Jones.


NOBODY is putting Nelly in a Goat conversation, no matter how many number 1 pop hits he churned out.

Ja Rule DMX the Crackhead Cacinem NONE of these rappers have had the consistency of success that Jigga has been able to sustain. We can talk quality of music all day long, that's what these boards are for, but when it comes to consistency the ONLY other rapper that's had consistent success from 1994-2013 is Nas. This nikka Jay is going platinum in 2013. SEVENTEEN years after his debut album. The Fugees released their LAST album in that year, Lauryn Hill is a crazy bag lady with 15 kids now. Pac and Big are dead. 50 Cent couldn't last 10 years as a mainstream artist. Nelly couldn't sustain a career pass 5 albums. Lil Wayne is Jay-Z's b*stard retarded southern offspring, T.I. Is on reality television Luda can get a movie released before he can get an album release date.


I mean you HAVE to give credit where it due, All those other artists reign on top was shorter than leprechauns. Some of them do not have ONE classic to their names (Lauryn Hill being the exception and perhaps X) all they have is sales, and not even consistent sales.

A Jigga Stan has a certain verifiable argument when they make the claim to Jigga's Goat candidacy. Imagine having a SERIOUS debate with a fukking Nelly Stan Or a Luda Stan Or worse yet, a fukking Cacinem or 50 Stan On claims to greatness, their mostly laughed out of the conversation if they were even brave (or stupid) enough to have it at all. That's because it's known and recognized white the stand on in Hip Hop history, and it's DEFINITELY not on Jigga's level

We need more posters like you who clearly know their shyt, and provide unbiased views on rap, unlike the majority of these cacs, clowns, and trolls on here.

 

[really]

When it's all said and done, culturally speaking, the ONLY rapper that can be put in the same breath as Jay-Z is the Kid Wave himself, the King Of Queensbridge Nasir Bin Olu Dara Jones.


NOBODY is putting Nelly in a Goat conversation, no matter how many number 1 pop hits he churned out.

Ja Rule DMX the Crackhead Cacinem NONE of these rappers have had the consistency of success that Jigga has been able to sustain. We can talk quality of music all day long, that's what these boards are for, but when it comes to consistency the ONLY other rapper that's had consistent success from 1994-2013 is Nas. This nikka Jay is going platinum in 2013. SEVENTEEN years after his debut album. The Fugees released their LAST album in that year, Lauryn Hill is a crazy bag lady with 15 kids now. Pac and Big are dead. 50 Cent couldn't last 10 years as a mainstream artist. Nelly couldn't sustain a career pass 5 albums. Lil Wayne is Jay-Z's b*stard retarded southern offspring, T.I. Is on reality television Luda can get a movie released before he can get an album release date.


I mean you HAVE to give credit where it due, All those other artists reign on top was shorter than leprechauns. Some of them do not have ONE classic to their names (Lauryn Hill being the exception and perhaps X) all they have is sales, and not even consistent sales.

A Jigga Stan has a certain verifiable argument when they make the claim to Jigga's Goat candidacy. Imagine having a SERIOUS debate with a fukking Nelly Stan Or a Luda Stan Or worse yet, a fukking Cacinem or 50 Stan On claims to greatness, their mostly laughed out of the conversation if they were even brave (or stupid) enough to have it at all. That's because it's known and recognized where they stand in Hip Hop history, and it's DEFINITELY not on Jigga's level

Show me where I said Nelly, TI or anyone else I listed that had years above Jay that they are above him on the all time list.


The bottom line is, Jay said he's "Mike Jordan of Mic Recording"... and he has NO dominate years, when MJ dominated at least 10.... are you upset that I'm throwing HIS OWN WORDS in his face?


It'd be like Uisain Bolt saying "Im the michael phelps of sprinting", and having 10 silver medals...


Let me guess, I'm a hater for pointing that out, right?



I still put Jay #4 all time...... Kareem might be #4 on the all time NBA list... like I said, it's a BIG DIFFERENCE between #4 and #1... you upset at that?



Don't be.... Jay's not paying your bills... So me pointing out factual information and embelishes in his story is taking no food off your table.




As far as his long Silver and Bronze (or worse) Medal laced reign itself, I can argue Jay's extended "reign" is due to Beyonce, Business ventures and all his other little gimmicks...


"proud new owner of the nets".... but owning 1/15th of 1%....


Let me guess, I'm DEAD WRONG and a HATER for pointing out that FACT? right?



Jay throws up a lot of smoke screens and publicity stunts to keep his name moving.... He's a marketing genius, I'd never deny that. Goat rapper marketing genius does not make.


Jay has a loyal group of fans, that are going to continue to buy his album.. So lets see, if Jay releases albums until he's 70.... that'll be about 50 years in the Rap game....


Michael Jackson was in the game for about 20 something years...



Jay-Z now >>>>>>>>>> Michael due to longevity alone?



You see how stupid that shyt is?



If we're talking longevity, Jay-Z is the AC Green of this Mic Recording, cool for him.... Michael Jordan had a relatively short NBA career.. Especially when you subtract his retirement years and the wizards years.....



If we're talking LONGEVITY as the MAIN factor in greatness, Jordan wouldn't be top 30 all time...


You see how fukking dumb that is?


We judge GREATNESS based off how POWERFUL THEY WERE at their PEAK.... With longevity being a secondary issue.



You made a valiant effort... But like 30 other posters before you, you have been son'd with facts.... Good day sir

 

[really]

Going to post this again... It's so damn powerful.... I'm only doing what JAY ASKED ME TO DO.....


Jay-Z on Tom Ford: "Numbers don't lie, Check the Scoreboard!"


-FACT - Biggie / Pac Dominated the 90s sales
-FACT - Eminem / Nelly Dominated the 2,000's sales
-FACT - Biggie, Pac, Eminem, 50, Luda, Nelly have more #1 hits than him
-FACT - Jay-Z sold the most albums only 1 year in his career, 2006 (Kindom come, worst album, top 5 players injured: 50, Kanye, Eminem, Wayne didn't drop albums)
-FACT - Eminem is the best selling rap artist of all time
-FACT - Biggie, Pac, Eminem average more platinum plaques per album than Jay
-FACT - Jay-Z only has the 16th best selling rap album of all time, Biggie, 2pac, Eminem all have albums above him
-FACT - Eminem, Lil Wayne, 50 and almost Kanye, have all sold 1 million in their first week.. Something Jay-Z has openly said he wish he could do (but NEVER will)
-FACT - Lil Wayne has the most hits on the Billboard hot 100 of any rapper ever
-FACT - While Big / Pac were alive, Jay-Z never went better than platinum... He went Multi the year after Biggie released his last album.
-FACT - Jay-Z has 12 #1 albums... Graduation / Curtis were released on same day... Graduation #1 album.... Curtis #2 album.... American Gangster #1 album... Curtis outsold American Gangster. (translation, #1 album means NOTHING, the stats above are the meaningful stats)



I checked the scoreboard.... And Jay is losing in ALL major categories

 

[ROFL_GUY]

#factsonly

 

[really]

Barry Sanders = Retired early, 10 years in the league
Jim Brown = Retired Early, 9 years in the league
Emmit Smith = Stayed passed his prime, 15 years in the league.


100000% of the world recognizes both Jim Brown and Barry Sanders as greater than Emmitt Smith


When I apply the SAME logic / facts to Jigga stans, it's "hating"




#factsOnly ... #itsAwrap

 

[really]

@Harry B ..... Hov needs ya

 

[really]

“When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

― Walter Payton








Michael Jordan: Don't call me the greatest... That's disrespectful to Bill Russel and all the others that came before me.




Just more Cement on the epicness of this thread...


#FactsOnly

 

[ROFL_GUY]

#factsonly

 

[grock2727]

“When you're good at something, you'll tell everyone. When you're great at something, they'll tell you.”

― Walter Payton








Michael Jordan: Don't call me the greatest... That's disrespectful to Bill Russel and all the others that came before me.




Just more Cement on the epicness of this thread...


#FactsOnly

You've already taken many L's in this thread, your refusal to accept them just makes it more pathetic.

Here's the only FACT you really need to remember though, at the end of the day, Jay Z will still be regarded as one of, if not the Greatest of All Time. No matter how many posts in how many threads you put up, you still have to reconcile that within yourself. The only thing you've actually proven in this thread is how upset you are that he is one of the GOATs and there's nothing you can do about it, that's an L in itself. For over a decade now he's been regarded as such, and he keeps cementing himself with every passing year by accomplishing more then whoever you feel should be #1. Hell it was way back in 2006 where MTV placed him as #1 over Nas, Big and Pac:

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2006/emcees/index11.jhtml

Obviously you're going to say "who cares what MTV thinks?", but I guarantee you that more people care what they think then what you think, and it's not like MTV is the only one. Ultimately you will always lose this debate, because after all, it was your dejection that led you to create this thread in the first place. You keep hearing that Jay is the GOAT huh? Pisses you off doesn't it? Well get over it because it's not going anywhere.

So while you're crying yourself to sleep at night, wondering how it's possible that anyone thinks Jay is the GOAT, all his fans are extremely satisfied with his success, the critical accolades for his career, the general world view on him, and how it's going to go down in the history books.

 

[ROFL_GUY]

:ohh:

 

[really]

I'll just let Harry B da gawd handle this thread and burn it to the ground

this thread was a great read.

@really making camel stans tap out with the camel clutch #factsonly
@really and @ROFL_GUY going back and forth like Rae and Ghost on Heaven and Hell...the chemistry
@Art Barr coming through and dropping knowledge and science

Powerful thread

Hov stans Faded to Black after this thread....