Jay-Z: How can the "GOAT" Always come in "2nd??" - The ULTIMATE Devils Advocate Thread

[really]

Jay says numbers don't lie but only tells you to look at certain numbers. The numbers that don't support his claim he leaves out.

Yep.... And he leaves out, the MOST IMPORTANT numbers.


Eminem = Most albums sold all time with a MUCH better average (he averages over DOUBLE per album Jay sales)



12 #1 albums is the most useless stat in HISTORY of anything (not just music).... Graduation? #1 album ... American Gangster? #1 Album.... Curtis? #2 Album.... Curtis sold more than American Gangster.....


You can say Jay probably strategically never releases his albums against any competition so he can keep that smoke and mirrors "12 #1 albums" streak going.... He go head up against Drake he getting his ass bust... Go head up against Eminem he getting his ass bust... Go head up against Wayne he getting his ass bust...


It's all a facade people

 

[Kill Dat Noize]

But then again Jay did call out Nas on some hardbody shyt. Took balls to do that. Look at how shook rappers are these days to call out one another. Wayne, Ross, Ye... all these guys afraid to call out dudes on top cause they all feel like they got too much to lose... when in fact goin against the best and winning is what cements your legacy. Jay and Nas BOTH upped their legacies after that battle.

If someone wanted to they could bring it to Jay right now and dust his old ass but they shook. Wayne been sellin more than him for almost a decade now he coulda BEEN shytted on Jay when they were goin through their little back and forth but he never did. Smh.

Jay is LUCKY these cats are all soft cause all they do is claim king without ever goin for the crown.

 

[blackslash]

I guess Jay, Nas, Big are no GOATS

 

[MiC]

The stat of 12 number one albums holds no weight. You can debut number one and finish with very weak sales if you drop with no competition. HOWEVER, the stat of 12 million+ selling albums holds A LOT of weight.

Sure 50, nelly, Kanye, and Wayne all had years where they dominated. But they came and went while jay has remained. A true king doesn't have a couple hot years then struggle right after. A true king puts up CAREER numbers.

Sure nelly was blazing hot for 3 years and hot another 2. Sure 50 was blazing hot for 3 years and hot for another 2. But what did that get them ALL TIME? You know what that "five hot years then fell the fukk off" got 50 and nelly? 30 million records sold. You know what that "2nd place for 17 years" got jay z? 50 million sold.

You made the argument that a big week doesn't mean shyt but a big year means everything.
We'll I'll make the argument that a big CAREER means everything.

And the fact remains, regardless of his year to year placement, unless you are a white rapper or the rapper most often considered the goat, jay outsold you.

Jay didn't dominate a set few years, but his CAREER has far surpassed that of 50, nelly, Wayne, Kanye, big, DMX, and everyone else aside from em and PAC.

Forget longevity vs. dominating a specific time, these rappers WISH they could sell 50 million in their career PERIOD

#factsonly

 

[ROFL_GUY]

Let me show you maintaining this shyt ain't that hard
Everybody want the key and the secret to rap immortality like I have got
Well, to be truthful the blueprint is simply raging youthful exuberance
everyone likes to root for a nuisance

RD - nas/snoop samples on his singles bit cuban linx/IWW mafioso style
VOL1- Diddy- his "shiny suit album"
Vol2 - 12 songs have Fts rode the ruff/ryder wave
Vol3 - dikkrode the south UGK/juvenile
BP -- Eminem/kanye
BP2 - beyonce/neptunes/kanye/sean paul/lenny kravitz
TBA -gimmick retirement album
KC - his comeback from "retirement" gimmick album - beyonce/usher/chris martin/neyo/john legend + used em's producers mark batson and dr dre for 4 tracks
AG - gimmick "throwback drug dealing album" after his failure to make "mature music" lil wayne Fts
BP3 - drake/rihanna/kanye alicia keys/kid cudi young jeezy
WTT - rode kanyes coatails / frank ocean
MCHG - Justin timberlake/frank ocean/beyonce

:

 

[The Blind Man]

When you look at all this factual evidence... Do you still look at Jay-Z in the same light?

ps GOD is 2nd to no one... So GOD MC?? ..... My point exactly. Speak on it. #factsOnly


So thread title is Jay finished runner up, so who is number one, you gonna make a thread about some number 2 guy but don't put up a winner??

I respect your opinion and "facts" but I do see it a different way, even tho Jay-Z isnt the GOAT for me, he's one of them.

Ya see alot of what you put is highly subjective, not facts breh, your sports analogy needs working on, you used a fake sport, a team sport, swimming, boxing, FFS you even pulled babe ruth outta the box. I would like to see you pick one sport and break it down proper.

Your point on what a God MC is, is also suspect as its based on what seems to be a monotheistic perspective, one which I reject wholeheartedly when discussing something like music/sport/entertainment as it involves more of a polytheistic view, the only OMNIPOTENT entities in any of the genres/ fields of entertainment you mentioned are the actual industries and conglomerates that push the product.

So, im interested to read who your GOAT is, lets see what "facts" you have to support that.

 

[ROFL_GUY]

 

[really]

The stat of 12 number one albums holds no weight. You can debut number one and finish with very weak sales if you drop with no competition. HOWEVER, the stat of 12 million+ selling albums holds A LOT of weight.

Sure 50, nelly, Kanye, and Wayne all had years where they dominated. But they came and went while jay has remained. A true king doesn't have a couple hot years then struggle right after. A true king puts up CAREER numbers.

Sure nelly was blazing hot for 3 years and hot another 2. Sure 50 was blazing hot for 3 years and hot for another 2. But what did that get them ALL TIME? You know what that "five hot years then fell the fukk off" got 50 and nelly? 30 million records sold. You know what that "2nd place for 17 years" got jay z? 50 million sold.

You made the argument that a big week doesn't mean shyt but a big year means everything.
We'll I'll make the argument that a big CAREER means everything.

And the fact remains, regardless of his year to year placement, unless you are a white rapper or the rapper most often considered the goat, jay outsold you.

Jay didn't dominate a set few years, but his CAREER has far surpassed that of 50, nelly, Wayne, Kanye, big, DMX, and everyone else aside from em and PAC.

Forget longevity vs. dominating a specific time, these rappers WISH they could sell 50 million in their career PERIOD

#factsonly

ROFL.... Read the original post homeboy.


Biggie / Pac 2 #1 songs at 24, Jay 1 at 43...... #caseClosed


Biggie 2 classics on his first 2 tries, Jay only 2 on 14 tries.... #caseClosed


Pac 2 classics, better sales on average, more classic songs.



Kobe is going to have more points at the end of his career than Jordan, does that mean he's better


Karl Malone has better career numbers than Magic Johnson....



WHAT ABOUT THEM RINGS THOUGH?????......




Jay has NO RINGS........ Peyton has much better all time numbers than Joe Montana.... Montana is respected more because of RINGS...



Biggie / Pac have more rings in 4 years than Jay has in 20.... Nice try though.



This thread is BULLET proof.... I love it.

 

[blackslash]

ROFL.... Read the original post homeboy.


Biggie / Pac 2 #1 songs at 24, Jay 1 at 43...... #caseClosed


Biggie 2 classics on his first 2 tries, Jay only 2 on 14 tries.... #caseClosed


Pac 2 classics, better sales on average, more classic songs.



Kobe is going to have more points at the end of his career than Jordan, does that mean he's better


Karl Malone has better career numbers than Magic Johnson....



WHAT ABOUT THEM RINGS THOUGH?????......




Jay has NO RINGS........ Peyton has much better all time numbers than Joe Montana.... Montana is respected more because of RINGS...



Biggie / Pac have more rings in 4 years than Jay has in 20.... Nice try though.



This thread is BULLET proof.... I love it.

The bolded is opinion not fact breh

 

[big bun]

Diddy has more money and doesn't have to worry about getting caught cheating (or getting tired of the same p*ssy, even if he ISN'T trying to cheat). I'd rather be Diddy than Jay 10 times outta 10.


And he still aint the GOAT rapper. rofl

But Shawn made the Yankee hat more famous than a Yankee can...lettuce not forget losing them bricks either.

 

[really]

Jay's MOST MEMORABLE SONG OF HIS CAREER is "Hard Knock Life"... Hands down... Thats the song you'll most likely remember from him 20 years from now.



Biggie:
-------
who shot ya
one more chance remix
big poppa
kick in the door
Hypnotize
Mo Money Mo Porblems
Get Money
Juicy
Notorious Thugs
Victory



Pac
---
California Love
Dear Mama
Hit em Up
Hail Mary
Keep Ya Head Up
Ambitions as a Ridah
Me and My Girlfriend




Snoop
-----
Gin and Juice
Whats my Name



Nas
---
The World is Yours
Lifes a bytch
If I ruled the world
Ether






ALL OF THESE SONGS are more memorable than Hard Knock life.... JAY'S MOST POPULAR SONG....


Notice Biggie has like 8 songs more memorable... Pac 7... Arguably more.... Again, this with Pac / Big having 4 years, and Jay 20.



Even Nas makes more timeless classic songs than Jay.



fukk albums... in 30 years, you'll be making mixtapes of the most timeless classic songs.



If you made a mixtape of the most timeless classic songs from the 1990s / 2000s, Jay, the "Goat", would not have ONE SONG ON IT..... and THAT can't be disputed. (this list doesn't include shyt like in da club, 1st of the month, crossroads, killing me softly, O.P.P, nothing but a G thang... and probably 100 other songs more memorable than hard knock life)



Jay just aint that guy yall.

 

[really]

The bolded is opinion not fact breh

I'm just going by public opinion / critics... Reasonable doubt / blueprint are universal classics.. FACT...... Ready to Die / Life after death are universal classics.... FACT



Ready to die >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reasonable doubt in every way (impact, sales etc)


Life after death >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blueprint in every way (Impact, sales etc)



Jay can't win against the greats..... It's something ANY unbiased person will acknowledge

 

[The Blind Man]

[quote="really, post: 5878818, member: 12188"

Jay just aint that guy yall.[/quote]

so who is, fam?

 

[MINT]

 

[JuvenileHell]

Jay stans lookin like Big Sean stans right now.