Jay-Z is not top 5 !
- Thread starter African Peasant
- Start date
Not unfinished business 2?
He consistently drops records. More of his records are good compared to Nas. This isn't debatable. Neither is whether Jay is in the Top 5.
Nas only has 10 albums. Mind going through and telling me which ones were hot or a disappointment? Most having him batting 500 at best.
Murkman
Pro
You know how long it took for him to fall off with beat selection? Around the "Kingdom Come" era, then "BP3" still had fire beats, along with most of "MCHG", albiet they were far from his prime in terms of rapping and songwriting. The Vol Series was a natural progression leading up to the BP, then you had AG after KC, which wasn't that much of a drastic steep in quality compared to BP 3 onwards to MCHG.
Each album excluding maybe 2, all had very consistent, high quality production if you're arguing your point on music. The irony is Kanye didn't have a lot to do with that either, and was purely good timing on the music direction during that section of his career.
If you meant his emceeing and songwriting, that's harder to substantiate. His decline began after BP 2 (One disc is dope, the other is mostly filler. Overall, good album, but it's clear he did it more to be commercial than balance). Because on Vol 1-3 (all 3 varied on these aspects which is impressive in execution), he still was lyrical and technical as fukk and on BP, he balanced out his cons for the most part. He was more modern and had more of a background behind who he was, rather than relying on some outdated drug persona (Which he brought back on "American Gangster" to give more history and not exemplary bragging like on "Reasonable Doubt", so it was refreshing).
His unreleased shyt like "People's Court" as a song for one example, was fire too.
When you move on to the Black Album, the transition makes sense from the BP 2, because that was giving way to his "Retirement album", and it would have been a fitting ending to his discography.
He nearly gave you all sides of himself and touched on everything fans wanted him too throughout a 10 year period, which was outstanding. If he didn't make anymore music after TBA, he would be revered much higher than y'all are undermining him atm.
So outside of 1 bad albums, and 2 mediocre ons he dropped this decade, his 3rd decade doesn't discount what he accomplished in his first two. That is far from inconsistency as 2 of them (MCHG and BP 3) arrived at the near end of his career, while KC was a bridge from TBA to the AG. Note, he was personal on "Kingdom Come", as "American Gangster" would provide a clearer lens at the time through all the shyt he went through before making that project.
Nas meanwhile since "It Was Written", fukked up on every other album and is the result of what happens what you cannot stay in your lane and what you're good at.
On "I Am" he tried rapping fast in one instance, on "Nostradamus" he tried being some "spiritual lyrical miracle" type rapper and remaking "It Was Written". The worst part was that nikka dropped those 2
IN ONE YEAR. DMX and Hov pulled it off, but NOT NAS!?!?!?"God's Son" was great, but it wasn't a return to form like he demonstrated on "Stillmatic". Then you have "Hip-Hop Is Dead", which was Nas trying to be "Real Rap", like given all this nikka did for trend hopping, he's gonna now do this
to other rappers?When "Life Is Good" came out after that b*stardized creation that was "Street's Disciple", how is that not the textbook example of inconsistency in Rap?
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ill_will82
What you see, is what you get
Pac
Big
Em
Nas
Cube
No particular order imo. I mean Jay-Z is cool but a lot of his albums after The Black Album were either trash or sub-par. I bought Kingdom Come the year he came back and the shyt was just straight up ass I was pissed I wasted my money but I sold it later and got my money back. Blueprint 3 wasn't that great either and the thing is at that time they tried to call Jay-Z a trendsetter when in reality he bit so many different rappers rhymes (mostly BIG) it wasn't even funny. MCHG I actually liked and was much of an improvement from BP3. Jay-Z top 5 artist of all time not in my book. Top 10 most definitely.
Big
Em
Nas
Cube
No particular order imo. I mean Jay-Z is cool but a lot of his albums after The Black Album were either trash or sub-par. I bought Kingdom Come the year he came back and the shyt was just straight up ass I was pissed I wasted my money but I sold it later and got my money back. Blueprint 3 wasn't that great either and the thing is at that time they tried to call Jay-Z a trendsetter when in reality he bit so many different rappers rhymes (mostly BIG) it wasn't even funny. MCHG I actually liked and was much of an improvement from BP3. Jay-Z top 5 artist of all time not in my book. Top 10 most definitely.
Murkman
Pro
I'm saying both are GOAT'S but Nas had like 7 personas in his career, Hov just mainly been one person his whole career, and knew when to show you other sides of himself when appropriate and necessary.
Just gonna end this argument with these bars, on how you should objectively weigh their discographies against each other.
"Can't y'all see that he's fake, the rap version of T.D. Jakes
Prophesizing on your CDs and tapes?
Won't break you a crumb of the little bit that he makes
And this is with whom you want to place your faith
I put dollars on mine, ask Columbine
When the Twin Towers dropped, I was the first in line
Donating proceeds off every ticket sold
When I was out on the road, that's how you judge Hov, no?
Ain't I supposed to be absorbed in myself?
Every time there's a tragedy, I'm the first one to help
They call me this misogynist, but they don't call me the dude
To take his dollars to give gifts at the projects
These dudes is all politics, depositing checks
They put in they pocket, all you get in return is a lot of lip
And y'all buy the shyt, caught up in the hype
Cause the nikka wear a kufi, it don't mean that he bright
Cause you don't understand him, it don't mean that he nice
It just means you don't understand all the bullshyt that he write
Is it "Oochie Wally Wally" or is it "One Mic"?
Is it "Black Girl Lost" or shorty owe you for ice?
I've been real all my life, they confuse it with conceit
Since I will not lose, they try to help him cheat
But I will not lose, for even in defeat
There's a valuable lesson learned, so it evens up for me
When the grass is cut, the snakes will show
I gotta thank the little homie Nas for that though
Saving me the hassle of speaking to half of these a$$holes
And I'mma let karma catch up to Jaz-O, whoa
I'm back before you had a chance to miss me
My mama can't save you this time, nikkas is history
Who you know flow vicious as me?
Yet so religiously, that's why they call me Hov
I get the spoils cause the victor is me (me, nikka)
You're an actor, you're not who you're depicted to be
You street dreaming, all y'all nikkas living through me
I gave you life when nikkas was forgetting you emcee
I'm a legend, you should take a picture with me
You should be happy to be in my presence, I should charge you a fee
I'm Big Dog, Glenn Rob, listen God you a flea
And the little homey Jungle is a garden to me
What's the problem B? You not as hard as me
nikka hard as we, nikka R O C, nikka
That's why they follow me, they feel my pain and my agony, nikka
I won't rest till you on one knee
You want war then this war's gon' be, nikka
Until you on one knee, you want war then this war's gon' be, nikka"
Hov hasn't changed since then, Nas still flip-flopping doing different trends that make his Stans wince in disappointment in wanting to rescind. Everytime they have to remind you he was the epitome of "Real Rap" of NY Hip-Hop, to cover up his past and questionable periods of his career. Hov ain't got to apologize for his mistakes, he took responsibility and been addressed it from "Moment Of Clarity", we are waiting on Nas to do the same and move to a new stage of his career. A transition where it feels natural, and that he isn't trying his damnedest to recapture his 90's era.
Yeah, Hov didn't make "Illmatic", but anyone else that also had classic albums during that era didn't either, so why single him out?
Like @Inspect Her Deck was trying to tell you all earlier, he wasn't disrespecting Nas's catalog only how eventually they'll be heralded upon official retirement.
Doesn't that logically make Nas overrated, having to stick up for him and make excuses for his fallacies and mistakes in his music - pretending like he wasn't as fallible as other New York Rap artists?
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ill_will82
What you see, is what you get
I would even argue that starting from 2007-2008 through 2012 that Nas has put out better albums than Jay-Z.
Murkman
Pro
Not unfinished business 2?
Wasn't "Unfinished Business 2" a collab album like Nas did "Distant Relatives" with Damian Marley? So how does that count?
Nas and Hov do have extreme "Deadlock" low points. Their double albums: "BP 2" and "Street's Disciple", the albums in between their classics like "I Am"/"Nostradamus", and "Kingdom Come". The difference is Hov had way better intuition on WHEN to drop those, Nas had no idea what the hell direction he wanted to pursue in, after "It Was Written". That was when you tell already that was gonna be a huge problem, he'd regret later on even blaming himself on "Hip-Hop Is Dead", but he still has this tendency to be a false perfectionist.
The reasoning is almost ironic, Hov sold out to have the world vibe with his street shyt more. Nas sold out, because he wanted to point out other's imperfections all while ignoring his own.
As much hype as they put into that project I'm not letting him slide that easy. Same with Roc La Familia. If it was a hit he'd claim it. I'm not trying to rewrite Jay's history and we probably agree objectively on the details. I'm not trying to Stan, I'm not trying to really even argue that Jay Z or Nas is better. I'm just saying why I rank him ahead, but understand why others view it differently.
I especially agree with your last point.
Murkman
Pro
Big bite Black Moon 2 years later after they dropped their debut, Em bit Redman, Nas bit Rakim, Cube and Pac bit Public Enemy, so what relevance does that have to your point?
So, Hov bit Biggie and Jaz-O (who no one even cares about outside of 1 hit song), wow 2 emcees. Go on about how emcees don't bite each other all the time, while explaining how Hov paying homage to Biggie to keep Brooklyn's heritage alive was merely only "biting".
You are the same type of users that get outraged when certain emcees don't "pay homage", as if there is a perfect and proper way to achieve that.
Murkman
Pro
As much hype as they put into that project I'm not letting him slide that easy. Same with Roc La Familia. If it was a hit he'd claim it. I'm not trying to rewrite Jay's history and we probably agree objectively on the details. I'm not trying to Stan, I'm not trying to really even argue that Jay Z or Nas is better. I'm just saying why I rank him ahead, but understand why others view it differently.
I especially agree with your last point.
In that case, then that's literally all I had to say, I couldn't agree more than.
shyt, this argument gonna go on forever anyways, so that's just how I viewed the 2 as artists and icons.
Hm, is it weird I want them to do a collab album about looking back when they both screwed up and could've supported each other rather than beefing it out?
Too much reality for the Coli to handle as a probability, oh well.
Checkgamematch
All Star
Jay z > Ice Cube.
Ice Cube being top 5 is laughable.
Ice Cube being top 5 is laughable.
Checkgamematch
All Star
Name one Jay Z song with a better song structure.
Tide Run This
Veteran
fukk jiggaboo