Jemele Hill on Dirk being a potential Top 10 Player

[Aizen]

Possibly kicking Larry Bird or Oscar Robertson out for Dirk? I don't like how Dirk and Larry get compared just because they are white. Larry was one hell of a passer like LeBron from the forward position. Dirk was never that kind of passer. And Oscar was unfortunately stuck on crappy teams but still won a ring and there is an interesting thread comparing Oscar favorably (or more evenly) to Magic Johnson that is an interesting read.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1354089

While still speaking about Oscar, ESPN had Jabbar a while back. They asked about one-on-one match-ups and Skip said he thought Jabbar could beat Jordan because all of Jabbar's shots would be close-to-the-basket shots deep in the paint. But Jabbar said, "There's one guy left off these match ups that would have whipped everybody and that was Oscar." On ESPN's First Take YouTube page they edited that part out but another YouTuber uploaded the entire interview. Basically, Oscar for a long time was seen as one of the very best to ever play. So it's interesting how he is forgotten. People name John Stockton as the 2nd best point guard like Oscar never existed. Skip to the 11:05 mark for everything.



Dirk is great. But Top 10?

Michael Jordan
Bill Russell
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaq
Jerry West
Oscar Robertson
LeBron
Tim Duncan
Dr. J
Moses Malone
David Robinson

How many of those guys is Dirk better than? ESPN really rides the "hot in the moment" type of wave all the time. Dirk is great but probably more of a Top 15 or Top 20 guy than a Top 10 guy.

 

[El Bombi]

I don't take anything this feminist over Black c00n bytch serious. This bytch will co-sign a racist CAC comments towards a brotha in the name of feminist
Even tho Dirk is my dude.

 

[Jplaya2023]

That 2011 ring has really given dirk a higher status then what he should have.

Lol @ top 10. Top 30 for sure

 

[Detroit Wave]

Take feminist c00ns seriously brehs

 

[Damnshow]

ROFLMAO

in what world does dirk make it to top 10? He only has one ring and one mvp title, all guys in top 10 have at least two tittles (oscar ain't top 10 sorry, maybe 11th or 12th place, still better than dirk)

People don't remember how Dirk was liability in his pre championship days? It took a great big man and couple decent defenders to finally win a title, and his 2011 playoff journey was epic.

If comparing Bird to Dirk, Dirk has longetivity over him, but Bird's prime is EASILY better, Bird in his prime was as good as Prime LeBron. Bird's rookie season is one of the greatest rookie seasons ever, such an impact that they went from a shytty team to 61 win team. Unbelievable.

 

[Tha Gawd Amen]

Top 10 is starting to lose its literal meaning

 

[heart]

ROFLMAO

in what world does dirk make it to top 10? He only has one ring and one mvp title, all guys in top 10 have at least two tittles (oscar ain't top 10 sorry, maybe 11th or 12th place, still better than dirk)

People don't remember how Dirk was liability in his pre championship days? It took a great big man and couple decent defenders to finally win a title, and his 2011 playoff journey was epic.

If comparing Bird to Dirk, Dirk has longetivity over him, but Bird's prime is EASILY better, Bird in his prime was as good as Prime LeBron. Bird's rookie season is one of the greatest rookie seasons ever, such an impact that they went from a shytty team to 61 win team. Unbelievable.

I've been saying this for years.

Back when it was mike finley's team along with nash dirk was just a spot up 3point shooter, then he evolved over time. He was always a defensive liability but some people like to change the narrative to fit their argument. Even if you ask die hard mav fans around the metroplex they'll tell you dirk is an elite player, maybe even great but top 10? NO, top 20? maybe.

To me the prerequisite for being considered for top 10 or an all time great is you have to do it on both ends, guys like carmelo & dirk never picked up that part of the game, very prolific scorers but that's where it stops.

 

[mr. smoke weed]

Dirk>>Shaq/Duncan??

 

[malbaker86]

Nah not top 10 but he's FIRMLY in the 10-20 range.

 

[Damnshow]

I've been saying this for years.

Back when it was mike finley's team along with nash dirk was just a spot up 3point shooter, then he evolved over time. He was always a defensive liability but some people like to change the narrative to fit their argument. Even if you ask die hard mav fans around the metroplex they'll tell you dirk is an elite player, maybe even great but top 10? NO, top 20? maybe.

To me the prerequisite for being considered for top 10 or an all time great is you have to do it on both ends, guys like carmelo & dirk never picked up that part of the game, very prolific scorers but that's where it stops.

Exactly, both ends is a MUST. I frikkin laughed at the video in OP, the bytch was telling put dirk in top 10 cause the game evolves and shyt, it's like muthafukkas forgetting what all time legends used to do. She said Larry is movable, bytch please watch the tapes, Prime Larry was on the same level as prime LeBron, we are talking about all time great level. I wanna see Dirk winning 3 mvps and 3 rings in 80s while dealing with mose julius erv sixers and bad boy pistons.


Also people forget how Dirk used to get bounced off the 1st round aka GSW show or that new orleans hornets fukkery. And his teams were stacked, unlike KG dealing with wolves or Oscar Robertson playing with scrubs until Kareem came in.

 

[Codeine Bryant]

He's top 25. I don't think there's any arguing that.

Definitely not top 10.


But even more important, Dirk > Garnett.

 

[Damnshow]

He's top 25. I don't think there's any arguing that.

Definitely not top 10.


But even more important, Dirk > Garnett.

Dirk is not better than Garnett, unless you are trying to find something else that others didn't.

Kevin himself is one of a kind player, a very mobile player who did on both ends of the floor. Garnett's defensive impact is something else, one of the greatest defensive anchors of all time. When he came to boston all of a sudden guys like Pierce started playing defense, Rondo and the rest, they traded Perkins who looked decent on defense and he became shyt because that's how big of the impact KG had.

12 all defensive teams, king of rebounds for 4 seasons, he had a greater peak than dirk.

Now KG is someone that had potential to make it to top 10 the way he was built, but he wasted too much of his career in minny.

 

[Codeine Bryant]

Dirk is not better than Garnett, unless you are trying to find something else that others didn't.

Kevin himself is one of a kind player, a very mobile player who did on both ends of the floor. Garnett's defensive impact is something else, one of the greatest defensive anchors of all time. When he came to boston all of a sudden guys like Pierce started playing defense, Rondo and the rest, they traded Perkins who looked decent on defense and he became shyt because that's how big of the impact KG had.

12 all defensive teams, king of rebounds for 4 seasons, he had a greater peak than dirk.

Now KG is someone that had potential to make it to top 10 the way he was built, but he wasted too much of his career in minny.

He's not a number 1. He's not going to get you clutch buckets in crunch time. He's not going to put the team on his back and win a series.

As Malta has said on this board, KG is arguably the greatest complimentary player of all time.

Defense is nice, but it's far lower on the pecking order compared to offensive ability and output. Scoring is at a premium in the NBA. It's why offensive players like Melo, KD, and Curry outrank defensive wizards like Tony Allen, Kawhi Leonard, Mike Conley, and Rajon Rondo.

At the end of the day, Dirk was a guy who anchored 50 win teams for over a decade and lead his team to the NBA Finals as the best player on said teams 2 times. KG was never bout that life. He needed superstars, facilitators, and more importantly scorers to win/finish/close out games around him.

#1 option >>>>> complimentary player


But this is The Coli, and I've had somebody argue with me that Allen Iverson is a better player than Dirk, sooooooooo...

 

[heart]

He's top 25. I don't think there's any arguing that.

Definitely not top 10.


But even more important, Dirk > Garnett.

Strongly disagree & here's why. When KG was in minnesota he brought it on BOTH ends EVERYNIGHT. At that point he was the best PF in the game, better than abdul-rahim, rasheed wallace, dirk, c-webb & duncan. If marbury would've kept his head together they would've did great things there with flip saunders. He always had a consistent 15-17ft shot, great offensive & defensive rebounder & underrated assist guy.

Before dallas beat the heat dirk was always viewed as a great scorer but mentally weak. Winning a championship changes people's perspective, the nba admittedly wanted to be more offensive geared by taking away hand checking thus making scoring go up. And yeah stevenson & jet played great off the bench during that championship run & they needed j-kidd's leadership but if it wasn't for tyson chandler no way would they had won the 'ship. He was/is the centerpiece of the team. And they have a good chance to come out of the west this year if he can stay healthy.

 

[Damnshow]

He's not a number 1. He's not going to get you clutch buckets in crunch time. He's not going to put the team on his back and win a series.

As Malta has said on this board, KG is arguably the greatest complimentary player of all time.

Defense is nice, but it's far lower on the pecking order compared to offensive ability and output. Scoring is at a premium in the NBA. It's why offensive players like Melo, KD, and Curry outrank defensive wizards like Tony Allen, Kawhi Leonard, Mike Conley, and Rajon Rondo.

At the end of the day, Dirk was a guy who anchored 50 win teams for over a decade and lead his team to the NBA Finals as the best player on said teams 2 times. KG was never bout that life. He needed superstars, facilitators, and more importantly scorers to win/finish/close out games around him.

#1 option >>>>> complimentary player

Dirk needed defensive players to cover his liability on that part, so no matter how much of offensive juggernaut he was that other dimension was weak that held him back from winning more.

KG himself was great on offense having that mid range game and getting the work done in the paint. So I understand your comparision of offensive and defensive players but this does not work with KG because he was good on both ends of the floor.

Scoring is more important but the gap of defense between two is way too huge. I look at the whole package. Both players could not win it all by themselves so it's just the way you look at it, Dirk needed defensive anchors seriously, and KG needed more scorers.

I see what you are telling me but this #1 option had too many flaws. I consider both in the top 20 though.