Jews against Zionism....The News you never see on TV

[frankster]

Who is a Jew?
A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.
Judaism 101: Who Is a Jew?
My own definition of a Jew is anyone who accepts the Torah( Practice Judaism).



Zionism, Jewish nationalist movement that has had as its goal the creation and support of a Jewish national state in Palestine, the ancient homeland of the Jews (Hebrew: Eretz Yisraʾel, “the Land of Israel”). Though Zionism originated in eastern and central Europe in the latter part of the 19th century, it is in many ways a continuation of the ancient attachment of the Jews and of the Jewish religion to the historical region of Palestine, where one of the hills of ancient Jerusalem was called Zion.
Zionism | nationalistic movement



What is Anti-Semitism

“Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities.”
https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/working-definition-antisemitism




NY Jews protesting Ziomism



Sigmund Freud:
“I concede with sorrow that the baseless fanaticism of our people is in part to be blamed for the awakening of Arab distrust. I can raise no sympathy at all for the misdirected piety which transforms a piece of a Herodian wall into a national relic, thereby offending the feelings of the natives.”


Albert Einstein:
“The (Israeli) state idea is not according to my heart. I cannot understand why it is needed. It is connected with many difficulties and a narrow-mindedness. I believe it is bad.”

Erich Fromm, social psychologist:
“The claim of the Jews to the Land of Israel cannot be a realistic political claim. If all nations would suddenly claim territories in which their forefathers lived two thousand years ago, this world would be a madhouse.”

Primo Levi, writer and Auschwitz survivor:
"Everyone has their Jews. For the Israelis they are the Palestinians."


Marek Edelman, last surviving leader of the 1943 Warsaw uprising:
Edelman wrote a letter in support of the Palestine resistance, comparing them to ZOB, the Jewish fighters in Warsaw. He opened with, "Commanders of the Palestine military, paramilitary and partisan operations - to all the soldiers of the Palestine fighting organisations.”

Isaac Asimov, novelist:
“I find myself in the odd position of not being a Zionist ... I think it is wrong for anyone to feel that there is anything special about any one heritage of whatever kind. It is delightful to have the human heritage exist in a thousand varieties, for it makes for greater interest, but as soon as one variety is thought to be more important than another, the groundwork is laid for destroying them all.”
From Albert Einstein to Noam Chomsky: famous Jews who have opposed Israel


The Battle of World Jewry against Zionism - What Israel Don't Want You to Watch; -

 

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

Anne Frank refused a 1st class flight to Israel.

A Real one!

 

[98Ntu]

A lot of Jews I meet aren’t Zionists especially the younger ones. They see it for the exceptionalist racism that it represents and condones. Israel can exist but it’s continied oppression of Africans and Palestinians must stop before I ever publicly support it

 

[mbewane]

Heard this guy who's in a ant-racist and anti-zionist Jewish org here in Paris explain that before the war the majority of Jews in Europe were against the idea of going "back" to Israël.

When you think about it, Isarël was the perfect way of sending Jews out of Europe AND having an advanced outpost for the West in the Middle-East. To think Israël comes out of "remorse" from Euros towards Jews is hilarious. Those people around Europe who were sending Jews to the concentration camps didn't disappear in 1945.

 

[Koichos]

Jewish anti-Zionism predates the Second World War, let alone the State of Israel. Anti-Zionism is as much a Jewish ideology as Zionism.

Who is a Jew?
My own definition of a Jew is anyone who accepts the Torah( Practice Judaism).

The Chassidic philosophy to being a Jew, is that being a Jew does not involve a religion; Judaism is not a religion; and Jews historically are not good at being religious. We are not Jews because of our belief, we are Jews because of our mothers. A person born to a Jewish mother is always considered a Jew, even if they convert to another religion. A person who was born to a Jewish mother, but converts to another religion is considered to be a Jew in rebellion. This extends through generations, so that anyone matrilineally descended from a Jewish mother is still a Jew. A person born from ni'uf, or adultery, even that which took place between two Jewish parents, is a mamzer. A mamzer is not considered a second class citizen, nonetheless a mamzer is only allowed to marry another mamzer or a convert. It is considered especially important that a Kohein never marry a mamzer; this is because G-d allegedly doesn't like guys with crushed testicles, itching diseases or descendants of mamzers touching his stuff.. The modern non-Orthodox Jewish movements either no longer recognize the mamzer concept (Reform) or have taken on a don't ask don't tell policy (Conservative), but you can see how it would have seriously reduced inward gene flow.

A convert is a ger, which means something like "resident alien". In English Bibles, ger is usually translated as "the stranger who lives among you" or "the foreigner who lives among you". A person born to a giuress is Jewish because they have a Jewish nefesh, which is loosely interpreted as "soul", mostly because Jews don't understand the Christian concept of soul is very different from nefesh, and because there isn't any English word quite like it. Perhaps nefesh can be analogized to the English usage of soul when you say someone's really got soul, or sings soulfully. Conversion is discouraged. In fact, a rabbi is obligated to try to convince a potential convert to give up at least three times. There is no need for a non-Jew to become a Jew in order to be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d. Only the Seven Laws of Noah are considered to be applicable to non-Jews, whereas Jews are supposed to follow 613 commandments. But it takes more to convert than merely fulfilling the mitzvahs or keeping shabbos. You have to have the approval of a proper Orthodox religious court. More importantly, when someone converts to Judaism, they become a Jewish person, not a Jewish believer—this is what sunders Judaism from the rest.

 

[frankster]

Jewish anti-Zionism predates the Second World War, let alone the State of Israel. Anti-Zionism is as much a Jewish ideology as Zionism.



The Chassidic philosophy to being a Jew, is that being a Jew does not involve a religion; Judaism is not a religion; and Jews historically are not good at being religious. We are not Jews because of our belief, we are Jews because of our mothers.

I know nothing of the Chassidic philosophy, so I take your word on that.
I base my idea on the Christian Bible mostly...I also accept that the Bible and the Torah(Tanakh) are Close in meaning and concept
To my understanding to be a Jew is strictly about religion/spirituality...not race,ethnicity, country, politics or nationality.

A person born to a Jewish mother is always considered a Jew, even if they convert to another religion. A person who was born to a Jewish mother, but converts to another religion is considered to be a Jew in rebellion. This extends through generations, so that anyone matrilineally descended from a Jewish mother is still a Jew. A person born to a Jewish mother, but not a Jewish father is a mamzer (a Jew of impaired status).

This I know t is the modern concept and conception of Jews and what it is to be a Jew, however I have often wonder when and why did it change and by whom from patrilineal.
In the bible descent is traced patrilineally

A person born to adultery is also a mamzer. A mamzer is not considered a second class citizen, nonetheless a mamzer is only allowed to marry another mamzer or a convert. It is considered especially important that a Levite never marry a mamzer; this is because G-d allegedly doesn't like guys with crushed testicles, itching diseases or descendants of mamzers touching his stuff.. The modern non-Orthodox Jewish movements either no longer recognize the mamzer concept (Reform) or have taken on a don't ask don't tell policy (Conservative), but you can see how it would have seriously reduced inward gene flow.

Yet Ruth and Rahab King David Great Grand Mothers were both Moabites, one even a Prostitute, yet David rose to be King.

But the stranger that dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself; for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God
Liviticus 19:34

A convert is a ger, which means something like "resident alien". In English Bibles, ger is usually translated as "the stranger who lives among you" or "the foreigner who lives among you". A person born to a giuress is Jewish because they have a Jewish nefesh, which is loosely interpreted as "soul", mostly because Jews don't understand the Christian concept of soul is very different from nefesh, and because there isn't any English word quite like it. Perhaps nefesh can be analogized to the English usage of soul when you say someone's really got soul, or sings soulfully. Conversion is discouraged. In fact, a rabbi is obligated to try to convince a potential convert to give up at least three times. There is no need for a non-Jew to become a Jew in order to be considered righteous in the eyes of G-d. Only the Seven Laws of Noah are considered to be applicable to non-Jews, whereas Jews are supposed to follow 613 commandments. But it takes more to convert than merely fulfilling the mitzvahs or keeping shabbos. You have to have the approval of a proper Orthodox religious court. More importantly, when someone converts to Judaism, they become a Jewish person, not a Jewish believer—this is what sunders Judaism from the rest.

I accept that the above is your philosophy/opinion or that of the Chassidic, My own is more akin to the scripture below.
It is all about Conversion of the Soul that makes an Individual a Jew....for this there is One Law for all Mankind

Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Malachi 2:10
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple
Psalm 19:7

 

[Koichos]

This I know t is the modern concept and conception of Jews and what it is to be a Jew, however I have often wonder when and why did it change and by whom from patrilineal.
In the bible descent is traced patrilineally

The matrilineal principle first appears in the Mishna compiled in the First and Second Centuries C.E. What it looks like is matrilineality was a Rabbinic innovation, but Rabbinic Judaism didn’t become predominant until about the Sixth Century C.E., meaning the diaspora communities were established before that. The central rabbinic text on the matrilineal principle is M. Kiddushin 3:12. According to rabbinic law, from the Second Century C.E. to the present, the offspring of a gentile mother and a Jewish father is a gentile, while the offspring of a Jewish mother and a gentile father is a Jew (albeit, according to the Mishna, a mamzer). Just as the law penalizes a Jewish man for having fathered a child on a gentile woman (i.e., the child is a gentile), the law had to penalize a Jewish woman who conceived a child from a gentile man: the child is a Jew but a mamzer. The Talmudim, however, declare these children to be not mamzerim but kasher (fit) and legitimate.

Yet Ruth and Rahab King David Great Grand Mothers were both Moabites, one even a Prostitute, yet David rose to be King.

The Mishna and Talmud maintain that such prohibition concern only the marriage of male Moabites (see Yevamot 76b-77a).

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

There wouldn't even be a need for an Israeli 'state' if it weren't for the constant repression those cats have had to endure for, literally, thousands of years.

No one wants them to live where they are, but no one wants them to live where they are.​

 

[frankster]

The matrilineal principle first appears in the Mishna compiled in the First and Second Centuries C.E. What it looks like is matrilineality was a Rabbinic innovation, but Rabbinic Judaism didn’t become predominant until about the Sixth Century C.E., meaning the diaspora communities were established before that. The central rabbinic text on the matrilineal principle is M. Kiddushin 3:12. According to rabbinic law, from the Second Century C.E. to the present, the offspring of a gentile mother and a Jewish father is a gentile, while the offspring of a Jewish mother and a gentile father is a Jew (albeit, according to the Mishna, a mamzer). Just as the law penalizes a Jewish man for having fathered a child on a gentile woman (i.e., the child is a gentile), the law had to penalize a Jewish woman who conceived a child from a gentile man: the child is a Jew but a mamzer. The Talmudim, however, declare these children to be not mamzerim but kasher (fit) and legitimate.

The Torah is considered the word of God...yes or no?
Am I then correct to consider The Mishnah and the Talmud as Rabbinic commentary on the word of God and so not the word of God?

The Mishna and Talmud maintain that such prohibition concern only the marriage of male Moabites (see Yevamot 76b-77a).

I still do not get it....
If Jewishness flows through the matrilineal blood then David should be Moabite

 

[Koichos]

The Torah is considered the word of God...yes or no?

Yes, but more specifically, the written Word of G-d. The Torah is considered to be the Written Law, as opposed to the Oral Law, the latter of which was initially to be committed by memory, and thus not given in the physical. Eventually, the Oral Law was transcribed and elaborated, in what came to be known as the Talmud.

Am I then correct to consider The Mishnah and the Talmud as Rabbinic commentary on the word of God and so not the word of God?

The Mishna and Talmud embody the recordings (and interpretations) of the Oral Law that was given alongside the written Torah.

I still do not get it....
If Jewishness flows through the matrilineal blood then David should be Moabite

Matrilineality was not established until the middle Second Century C.E.

 

[Sccit]

ITS CALLED AN UNCLE DAVID

 

[Everythingg]

Matrilineality was not established until the middle Second Century C.E.

Which proves the "oral law" i.e. talmud, to be false

 

[Koichos]

Which proves the "oral law" i.e. talmud, to be false

Non sequitur.

 

[Everythingg]

Non sequitur.

Dont see how thats the case:

"The Mishna and Talmud embody the recordings (and interpretations) of the Oral Law that was given alongside the written Torah."

Yet the written Torah established patriarchy and according to you, the oral law established matriarchy. They both cant be right

 

[Koichos]

Dont see how thats the case:

"The Mishna and Talmud embody the recordings (and interpretations) of the Oral Law that was given alongside the written Torah."

Yet the written Torah established patriarchy and according to you, the oral law established matriarchy.

Matrilineal descent—as attested in the Mishna and discussed in the Gemara (Kiddushin 66b and Kiddushin 68b, resp.)—is in fact derived from the written Torah (Exodus 21:4, Deuteronomy 7:3-4; also see Leviticus 24:10). Moreover, postexilic portions of the Hebrew Bible appear to be familiar with a matrilineal descent system (Ezra 10:2-3, Nehemiah 13:23). What happened was not a change to a matrilineal from a patrilineal principle but a limitation imposed by logic on the latter. That is, the child of a Jewish father and a gentile mother is not a gentile because of the application of any matrilineal principle; rather, he is a child without Jewish status since the patrilineal principle cannot operate for a union carried out beyond the limits of the clan. There is no issue at all why the Rabbis (or, if the change took place in the pre-Rabbinic period, their predecessors) should have been driven by sheer logic to conclude that the patrilineal principle must be limited to internal relationships—relationships which take place within the "families" of Israel, within the Israelite "clan". The key verse in this connection is by their families, by their fathers' houses (Numbers 1:2). The question why the patrilineal principle does not operate for unions outside the clan while it does operate for those within the clan is meaningless. Precisely because it is a clan principle it cannot operate for unions outside of the clan. Within each clan, both Jewish and gentile, it does operate. Thus, for the Rabbis there is no switch here from a patrilineal to a matrilineal principle. The patrilineal principle remains in effect, as tribal identity can be transmitted only from father to son.

They both cant be right

Tribal identity is patrilineal
Jewish status is matrilineal