Justin Herpert is Just A Guy

[King Kreole]

In his first 84 games [the only way i could divide it] Rivers was

55-25
19,661 yards
136 TDs
63% completion percentage
Playoff record of 0-5

i have no idea what you're laughing at or talking about. Rivers walked into a better team, was the same QB essentially as both, and had a worse playoff QB than both...do you just not know his history or something?

Actually Rivers sat for his first 32 games unlike Manning and Herbert, which is why you had to alter the stat for him to first 84 starts. I will cop to the fact that I have an anti-Rivers bias because his game is so fukking ugly to me, but I'm laughing at the idea that he was ever considered a generational talent like Manning and Herbert are. I don't know how you're saying he was essentially the same QB as both when for most of his career he was not even the best player on his own offense. Peyton was the offense. Herbert is the offense. Rivers? Nah. Rivers slotted very nicely into that Tier 2 QB list in his era behind Peyton and Tom and Ben and Brett and Drew and Aaron in Tier 1, but he was never pushing into that tier. Herbert has been debatably making the push into Tier 1 his whole career, hence this thread.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Actually Rivers sat for his first 32 games unlike Manning and Herbert, which is why you had to alter the stat for him to first 84 starts. I will cop to the fact that I have an anti-Rivers bias because his game is so fukking ugly to me, but I'm laughing at the idea that he was ever considered a generational talent like Manning and Herbert are. I don't know how you're saying he was essentially the same QB as both when for most of his career he was not even the best player on his own offense. Peyton was the offense. Herbert is the offense. Rivers? Nah. Rivers slotted very nicely into that Tier 2 QB list in his era behind Peyton and Tom and Ben and Brett and Drew and Aaron in Tier 1, but he was never pushing into that tier. Herbert has been debatably making the push into Tier 1 his whole career, hence this thread.

…no, those stats are for games PLAYED. I had to do 84 because i was looking at seasons played and it was an uneven number. All but 2 were STARTS, so we’re talking about the same sample size.

We both hate rivers. But herbert is the same essentially, and manning has the same playoff performance at that point in their careers.

Philip rivers is the accurate Herbert comparson.

 

[murksiderock]

Philip Rivers was never viewed as a generational QB, but he was viewed as really good, with potential.

He was never viewed as an equal to Manning at any point in his career.

Herbert is viewed as a greater raw talent than Rivers but we don't view him the way Manning was though of. Manning was always a better QB in the regular season, either you were there or you weren't. No stats are going to do the comp justice because The League was so different, 22-28 years ago.

Herbert thru this point in his career is well short of what we thought of Manning. He's a closer comp to Rivers.

One thing people have to remember, every era has it's best guy, its other elite guys, and its mid guys. Somebody has to be the Philip Rivers of his era. It just might be Herbert, because he definitely ain't the Brady, Manning, or Rodgers of his era. He's not Favre or Montana or Young or Elway.

Somebody has to be the Rivers and Eli of this era. It might be Herbert.

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

Philip Rivers was never viewed as a generational QB, but he was viewed as really good, with potential.

He was never viewed as an equal to Manning at any point in his career.

Herbert is viewed as a greater raw talent than Rivers but we don't view him the way Manning was though of. Manning was always a better QB in the regular season, either you were there or you weren't. No stats are going to do the comp justice because The League was so different, 22-28 years ago.

Herbert thru this point in his career is well short of what we thought of Manning. He's a closer comp to Rivers.

One thing people have to remember, every era has it's best guy, its other elite guys, and its mid guys. Somebody has to be the Philip Rivers of his era. It just might be Herbert, because he definitely ain't the Brady, Manning, or Rodgers of his era. He's not Favre or Montana or Young or Elway.

Somebody has to be the Rivers and Eli of this era. It might be Herbert.

This whole reply is my point. Good job laying it out better. Herbert is a clear comparison to Rivers, not Manning.

 

[King Kreole]

Philip Rivers was never viewed as a generational QB, but he was viewed as really good, with potential.

He was never viewed as an equal to Manning at any point in his career.

Herbert is viewed as a greater raw talent than Rivers but we don't view him the way Manning was though of. Manning was always a better QB in the regular season, either you were there or you weren't. No stats are going to do the comp justice because The League was so different, 22-28 years ago.

Herbert thru this point in his career is well short of what we thought of Manning. He's a closer comp to Rivers.

One thing people have to remember, every era has it's best guy, its other elite guys, and its mid guys. Somebody has to be the Philip Rivers of his era. It just might be Herbert, because he definitely ain't the Brady, Manning, or Rodgers of his era. He's not Favre or Montana or Young or Elway.

Somebody has to be the Rivers and Eli of this era. It might be Herbert.

The Rivers of this era are guys like Jared Goff or Bo Nix. Like Rivers and unlike Herbert, they are never in discussion for Tier 1 "if only...". They are guys who live very comfortably in Tier 2. As you correctly pointed out before, Manning was always regarded as an elite regular season QB but it was only in his Year 6 that he took the leap into HOF-trajectory because he got rid of the 0-3 playoff choke artist allegations and put up an MVP year. Herbert hasn't done that yet, and maybe he never will, but he's only 1 year off at this point. If he gets to the playoffs next year and makes it to the AFC Championship, that Tier 1 talk is going to be ringing again. Which is why he's closer to Manning trajectory than Rivers trajectory. Rivers making it to the AFC Championship in his second playoff run didn't do anything for his reputation or push him into Tier 1 QB discussion.

 

[King Poetic]

He might just be a upgraded Derek Carr with a better coach for regular season games

 

[Ed MOTHERFUCKING G]

The Rivers of this era are guys like Jared Goff or Bo Nix. Like Rivers and unlike Herbert, they are never in discussion for Tier 1 "if only...". They are guys who live very comfortably in Tier 2. As you correctly pointed out before, Manning was always regarded as an elite regular season QB but it was only in his Year 6 that he took the leap into HOF-trajectory because he got rid of the 0-3 playoff choke artist allegations and put up an MVP year. Herbert hasn't done that yet, and maybe he never will, but he's only 1 year off at this point. He's closer to Manning trajectory than Rivers trajectory.

You’re just shifting a narrative to be right. Manning brady rivers was a real thing until they separated themselves with playoff success. It was about this time in their careers that rivers kept losing to them, and chad pennington that we stopped, looking at him on that level.

But none of this matters because the point is herbert, like rivers, is a regular season qb who fails in the playoffs. I’ve never heard anyone compare herbert skills seriously to mannings. We aren’t bringing rivers to their level…you are bringing Herbert to MANNING’S level in these comparisons.

 

[King Kreole]

Manning brady rivers was a real thing until they separated themselves with playoff success. It was about this time in their careers that rivers kept losing to them, and chad pennington that we stopped, looking at him on that level.

I don't ever remember "Manning, Brady and Rivers" being a trifecta lol, he was never considered in their class. LT and Gates were the focal points of that Chargers offense, not Rivers.

But none of this matters because the point is herbert, like rivers, is a regular season qb who fails in the playoffs.

Again, Philip Rivers won 2 playoff games and went to the AFC Championship in his second playoff stint, he never had the choker label that 0-3 Manning and Herbert have. The regular season QB who fails in the playoffs isn't applicable to Rivers because he was never had elite QB expectations, he was third fiddle in his own offense.

I’ve never heard anyone compare herbert skills seriously to mannings.

They have different skillsets but the comparison is made often in mainstream sports press because of their similar trajectories. Here's Cowherd talking about it: Why Justin Herbert is on the Peyton Manning career track | The Herd | FOX Sports

And I'm not making these Herbert vs Manning graphics, this one is from NBC:

It's an actual talking point.

We aren’t bringing rivers to their level…you are bringing Herbert to MANNING’S level in these comparisons.

Correct, I'm saying Herbert is a regular season killer who chokes in the playoffs as seen by his 0-3 record in his first three playoff runs, which is the main hurdle to him solidifying his trajectory as an elite, HOF-tier QB. You're the one saying that sounds closer to Phillip Rivers than Peyton Manning at this stage in their respective careers, and I disagree.

 

[Bboystyle]

Yea ok champ, whatever u say.

U can ride the man all u want but just give me my flowers when he shyts the bed like always by years end