Kareem Abdul-Jabbar thinks Tim Duncan had a better career than Kobe

[JohnD]

Duncan's per game ranking on the spurs for all of their championship playoff runs. They want to say he was carried the last 2 titles. I'd say he was just as good as ever.

1999- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 3rd in assists (age:23)

2003- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 1st in assists (age:27)

2005- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 3rd in assists (age:29)

2007- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 3rd in assists (age:31)

2014- 2nd in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 4th in assists (age:38)

 

[Remote]

Tim Duncan is one of the greatest players of all time, and many thought he would’ve retired by now. It’s a good thing he didn’t. Duncan has already chalked up some milestones this year, and he has many more ahead of him.

On Nov. 2, he set a new record for a wins by one player on the same team when he and his San Antonio Spurs beat the New York Knicks:

That came just one day after he, along with Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker, set the record for most wins by a trio of players at 541.

But there are plenty of milestones still ahead, both of the personal and team variety.

Duncan has been on the winning side 966 times. If he can get 34 more, not at all unlikely, he’d be the third player to reach 1,000.

He has 14,817 rebounds. With 152 more he’ll pass Karl Malone for sixth all-time. With 183 more he’ll reach 15,000.

He has 994 steals, needing just six more to reach 1,000. That would make him just the 24th player in history notch 1,000 thefts and 1,000 blocks.

He needs just 26 blocks to reach 3,000 for his career and 91 to move past Mark Eaton for fourth all-time. At his present rate of 1.7 per game, he’d need 53 more appearances to do that, a very reachable goal.

If he reaches 15,000 rebounds, 3,000 blocks and 1,000 steals, he’d be the only person other than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to achieve all three of those things and score 25,000 points.

Speaking of points, he’s currently 14th on the all-time list. At his present pace, if he played 75 games this year, he’d reach 26,716 points, just enough to move him past Oscar Robertson for 11th. He needs 234 points to pass John Havlicek and 506 to pass Dominique Wilkins.

In the advanced stat category, Duncan is already sixth all-time in Win Shares. At his present pace, he should add about seven more, which move him past John Stockton, who currently has 4.2 more than Duncan.

And that’s just his regular-season numbers.

“If” the Spurs make the playoffs (yeah, I know, that’s a big if), it would be Duncan’s 18th trip there. Only John Stockton and Karl Malone can beat that number.

A second-round trip would likely move him past Michael Jordan for first all-time in postseason Win Shares, though, LeBron James is on his heels. If he scores 137 playoff points, he’ll move past Shaquille O’Neal for fourth all-time.

Duncan is currently fourth all-time in playoffs wins with 151. A trip to the second round would move him into a tie for second with Robert Horry. If he gets three wins in the Western Conference Finals, he’ll be the all-time leader in playoff wins.

As his career accomplishments continue to pile up, he continues to distance himself from Kobe Bryant for the imaginary title, “Greatest Player of His Generation.” But this season’s milestones could serve to move him into the theoretical top five of all time. Regarding personal and career accomplishments, there aren’t many who’ve attained what Duncan has. This year is just the capstone of a lifetime of achievements.

 

[Bilz]

BIRD IS IN THE TOP TIER GREATS .. BUT MAGIC > BIRD .. HAD BIRD REPEATED, HIS LEGACY WOULD BE EVEN GREATER. NOT THAT DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND YOUNG'N.

LEBRON'S LOSING FINALS RECORD AND ALLSTAR CAST HE NEEDED TO WIN GOES AGAINST HIM IN THE LEGACY DEBATE.

DUNO WHY ITS SO HARD TO GET?? PRETTY OBVIOUS STUFF TO ME

So for legacy purposes, not only do you get graded down if your teams weren't good enough to win back to back titles, but you also get graded down if your teams WERE good enough to win back to back titles?

 

[Born2BKing]

Somebody revive Bruce Lee so he can kick this nikka in the head.

 

[Sccit]

So for legacy purposes, not only do you get graded down if your teams weren't good enough to win back to back titles, but you also get graded down if your teams WERE good enough to win back to back titles?

LOL U GOIN FOR DUMBEST POSTER OF THE YEAR AWARD (DO THEY GIVE THOSE HERE)? LEBRON GETS POINTS FOR REPEATIN, BUT ALSO DOWNGRADED DUE TO A LOSING FINALS RECORD+HALL OF FAME CAST/MULTIPLE ALL-STARS, WHICH KOBE DID NOT HAVE. BOTH TIMES KOBE DID IT, HE DID IT WITH ONLY 1 OTHER ALL-STAR BY HIS SIDE. LEBRON DID IT WIT MULTIPLE. SAME FOR DUNCAN THATS A FACT, U GUNA ARGUE AGAINST THIS TOO? ALSO, LESS POINTS FOR LEBRONS RINGS BECAUSE HE PLAYED IN THE EAST AND HAD SOME OF THE EASIEST ROADS TO THE FINALS IN NBA HISTORY. TRY N FOLLOW BRODIE.

 

[Stack Money]

Lol and he also hasn't missed the playoffs either or played with a lottery pick(s) like Kobe has....and still has achieved more. We aren't pressed, check the poll, the people have spoken

He hasn't missed the playoffs cause he's had the same core teammates around him and a competent front office two things Kobe hasn't had, and again he's the 4th best player on his team and hasn't been the best since before 09 so he has significant help that Kobe hasn't had most of his career. Yall are pressed yall all over this thread desperately tryna convince anyone who says different that Duncan is better look at that long ass post your fellow Duncan stan DrexlersCut made in response to a post that was one and a half lines from a dude simply sayin he disagreed, the nikka didn't even quote anyone wit his post yet the Duncan stan rushed in wit a term paper typed upand this is all while Duncan is winnin the poll goin away I can't imagine how yall would be actin if Kobe was in the lead.

Name another instance of this discussion happening with any individual player. You can't. I've never seen the argument used against Bird or Wilt (I had to do research to even determine whether they had done it or not, because it's a trivial stat that no one cares about). I don't think it would have been used against the 80s Lakers if they didn't come back to win against Detroit.

On the other side of it, the same Kobestans who put such value in repeating (just because Kobe has done it) also downplay teams like the Bulls who 3peated twice, stating that they had no competition for those championships. Once again, Kobestans trying to have it both ways.

The only time repeating really comes into a debate is if you are trying to debate the most dominant reign for a TEAM. Obviously you can't pick a 2 year window like that where the Spurs would be near the top, but in a 10 year window, that's another story.

Most individual players aren't bein slurped by stans sayin they better winners than players who won back to back, if you gonna say he's better and brag about his winnin don't get butthurt when nikkas point out that he never won back to back which people always said about Duncan this ain't nothin new. Why don't you name another instance of this discussion happenin wit a player thats won 5 titles all durin back to back years, you never see haters tryna discredit Jordan Russell Magic etc for their rings (and Magic played wit Kareem widely viewed as the greatest Center ever but he don't get the shade that Kobe gets for playin wit Shaq) yet yall ignant nikkas say a dude that has a consistent core group of players and all time great coach who can't repeat is a better winner than Kobe.

An accomplishment like winnin back to back is not a trivial stat only Kobe haters/Duncan stans say some stupid shyt like that, its a rare feat that even alot of great players haven't done you got greats that never even won a ring and here's Kobe wit a 3peat and a repeat on his resume yet yall tryna pretend it ain't a big deal (just because Kobe has done it when we all know yall would stay bringin it up if Duncan did it).

No one downplays the Bulls cause errbody knows that was arguably the toughest era in history and people constantly mention how big an accomplishment it is for Jordan to have 2 3peats on his resume yet those same people brush it off when Kobe has a 3 peat and a back to back on his, once agan Kobe haters tryna have it both ways. And you the biggest Kobe hater on this site so you have zero credibility in anythin Kobe related, you stay in EVERY Kobe thread tryna discredit him and throwin shade you notorious for your obsessed hatred of Kobe.

 

[malbaker86]

He hasn't missed the playoffs cause he's had the same core teammates around him and a competent front office two things Kobe hasn't had, and again he's the 4th best player on his team and hasn't been the best since before 09 so he has significant help that Kobe hasn't had most of his career.

Lol at Kobe hasn't had help. nikka played with Shaq almost 10 damn years, played with Gasol for over 5 years, has had Dwight Howard come to LA, DPOY Ron Artest, but he hasn't had help? Do I need even bring up him having Malone and Payton as team mates too?

Why is it that TD has only had one marquee free agent sign with SA during his run? Oh that's right, because he never needed the help. His 2nd and 3rd best players were a 28th pick and a guy who was the next to last pick in the 1999 draft but let you tell, he's been fortunate to have elite talent surrounding him

Answer this, why is it that Duncan has NEVER SNIFFED the lottery or missing the playoffs while Kobe has been in the lottery and missed the playoffs....IN HIS PRIME

Oh and Tim Duncan gets carried? i'll quote the homie @JohnD post about his productivity in the 5 finals he's won and tell me that he's been carried:

Duncan's per game ranking on the spurs for all of their championship playoff runs. They want to say he was carried the last 2 titles. I'd say he was just as good as ever.

1999- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 3rd in assists (age:23)

2003- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 1st in assists (age:27)

2005- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 3rd in assists (age:29)

2007- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 3rd in assists (age:31)

2014- 2nd in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 4th in assists (age:38)

@Stack Money

Post Kobe's last playoff averages...from YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEARS ago

 

[Stack Money]

Lol at Kobe hasn't had help. nikka played with Shaq almost 10 damn years, played with Gasol for over 5 years, has had Dwight Howard come to LA, DPOY Ron Artest, but he hasn't had help? Do I need even bring up him having Malone and Payton as team mates too?

Why is it that TD has only had one marquee free agent sign with SA during his run? Oh that's right, because he never needed the help. His 2nd and 3rd best players were a 28th pick and a guy who was the next to last pick in the 1999 draft but let you tell, he's been fortunate to have elite talent surrounding him

Answer this, why is it that Duncan has NEVER SNIFFED the lottery or missing the playoffs while Kobe has been in the lottery and missed the playoffs....IN HIS PRIME

Oh and Tim Duncan gets carried? i'll quote the homie @JohnD post about his productivity in the 5 finals he's won and tell me that he's been carried:




@Stack Money

Post Kobe's last playoff averages...from YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEARS ago

Thanks for provin my point about how Duncan stans are goin hard, Kobe ain't play wit Shaq since 04 I'm talkin bout since then and especially now he hasn't had CONSISTENT help the way Duncan has you so emotional you can't even read properly. @ tryna consider Dwight Howard part of his "help" he was only there for 1 serason and never wanted to be there, Artest was past his prime dude was a role player on the Lakers and again you talkin bout the Shaq years wit Malone and Payton who were only there for 1 year as well.

The only true help he had since then was Gasol and that was after those struggle years wit Kwame Brown Luke Walton and Smush Parker, Duncan meanwhile has never had a team that bad which was my point he's always had consistently good-great teammates and the same HOF coach his whole career a.k.a. STABILITY. If Kobe had the kind of stability and competent front office he would never need free agents to sign there either, you tryna give Duncan credit for his great situation wit that franchise obviously if you draft well you won't have to hope for big name free agents signin their best player is Leonard a guy they drafted dummy.

I already told you why Duncan hasn't missed the playoffs or been in the lottery like Kobe and have done it again in this post the Spurs been an elite organization while the Lakers front office has been terrible post-Shaq, everythin you sayin is helpin my case but you too stupid to realize it.:michaeljordanlaugh:Duncan's numbers ain't nearly as good as they were for those first 3 finals which is why he hasn't been Finals MVP Parker and Leonard were the best players for those last 2 rings, funny you gettin butthurt about Duncan bein carried yet are quick to say Kobe got carried by Shaq which just shows that argument is all good until it applies to your guy.The Lakers are a horrible team thanks to that FO so of course Kobe's averages are from years ago since thats the last time they were in the Finals, smarten up.

 

[nieman]

Tim Duncan is one of the greatest players of all time, and many thought he would’ve retired by now. It’s a good thing he didn’t. Duncan has already chalked up some milestones this year, and he has many more ahead of him.

On Nov. 2, he set a new record for a wins by one player on the same team when he and his San Antonio Spurs beat the New York Knicks:

That came just one day after he, along with Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker, set the record for most wins by a trio of players at 541.

But there are plenty of milestones still ahead, both of the personal and team variety.

Duncan has been on the winning side 966 times. If he can get 34 more, not at all unlikely, he’d be the third player to reach 1,000.

He has 14,817 rebounds. With 152 more he’ll pass Karl Malone for sixth all-time. With 183 more he’ll reach 15,000.

He has 994 steals, needing just six more to reach 1,000. That would make him just the 24th player in history notch 1,000 thefts and 1,000 blocks.

He needs just 26 blocks to reach 3,000 for his career and 91 to move past Mark Eaton for fourth all-time. At his present rate of 1.7 per game, he’d need 53 more appearances to do that, a very reachable goal.

If he reaches 15,000 rebounds, 3,000 blocks and 1,000 steals, he’d be the only person other than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar to achieve all three of those things and score 25,000 points.

Speaking of points, he’s currently 14th on the all-time list. At his present pace, if he played 75 games this year, he’d reach 26,716 points, just enough to move him past Oscar Robertson for 11th. He needs 234 points to pass John Havlicek and 506 to pass Dominique Wilkins.

In the advanced stat category, Duncan is already sixth all-time in Win Shares. At his present pace, he should add about seven more, which move him past John Stockton, who currently has 4.2 more than Duncan.

And that’s just his regular-season numbers.

“If” the Spurs make the playoffs (yeah, I know, that’s a big if), it would be Duncan’s 18th trip there. Only John Stockton and Karl Malone can beat that number.

A second-round trip would likely move him past Michael Jordan for first all-time in postseason Win Shares, though, LeBron James is on his heels. If he scores 137 playoff points, he’ll move past Shaquille O’Neal for fourth all-time.

Duncan is currently fourth all-time in playoffs wins with 151. A trip to the second round would move him into a tie for second with Robert Horry. If he gets three wins in the Western Conference Finals, he’ll be the all-time leader in playoff wins.

As his career accomplishments continue to pile up, he continues to distance himself from Kobe Bryant for the imaginary title, “Greatest Player of His Generation.” But this season’s milestones could serve to move him into the theoretical top five of all time. Regarding personal and career accomplishments, there aren’t many who’ve attained what Duncan has. This year is just the capstone of a lifetime of achievements.

These are longevity stats though. He's been in the league 19 years. If we count longevity stats, Kobe and Karl Malone deserve to be higher

Did you NOT see how he was giving the Clippers that work in the post season last year

He could still put up high ppg and rpg but he doesnt play much and he doesnt look for his shot first anymore. Thatll more than likely change in the post season

My point is that the Spurs trimmed his minutes well over a decade ago, and had him around 33mpg. And he hasn't put up beast numbers for over half of his career. It was one season he was down to 18ppg, I forget the year and too lazy to look it up right now, and I remember saying why is Duncan already at 18 and not even in league for 10? I think that was the first season Tony Parker was the leading scorer...of course Duncan was back to 20ppg the following year and he was under 20 ever since. Why did they trim his minutes so early? His game isn't athletic based, and they play a slow pace, so why change unless he could no longer do it? That early on takes him down a notch in my opinion. The rebounding has always been there, especially since they don't have other rebounders on the team...the on-the-ball defense will be there. But we judge the best of the best based on stats, and he's getting a pass. So it has to be the rings? 2 he was carried for. The past decade it hasn't even been his team.

Karl Malone played at a much higher-level for longer, more minutes. He has 2 seasons under 20ppg (rookie & Laker) not a shotblocker but a better passer and he's thrown into the bushes as an all-time great. Sheed was an unguardable player and he has HORRIBLE stats..He's not sniffing the Hall because no one cares about him being unguardable. Manu is another unguardable player with shytty stats that no one will care about. He went from 7-8 years of an all-time great to Pau Gasol numbers to Sheed to wherever he is now? Something's wrong there.

 

[malbaker86]

Thanks for provin my point about how Duncan stans are goin hard, Kobe ain't play wit Shaq since 04 I'm talkin bout since then and especially now he hasn't had CONSISTENT help the way Duncan has you so emotional you can't even read properly. @ tryna consider Dwight Howard part of his "help" he was only there for 1 serason and never wanted to be there, Artest was past his prime dude was a role player on the Lakers and again you talkin bout the Shaq years wit Malone and Payton who were only there for 1 year as well.

The only true help he had since then was Gasol and that was after those struggle years wit Kwame Brown Luke Walton and Smush Parker, Duncan meanwhile has never had a team that bad which was my point he's always had consistently good-great teammates and the same HOF coach his whole career a.k.a. STABILITY. If Kobe had the kind of stability and competent front office he would never need free agents to sign there either, you tryna give Duncan credit for his great situation wit that franchise obviously if you draft well you won't have to hope for big name free agents signin their best player is Leonard a guy they drafted dummy.

I already told you why Duncan hasn't missed the playoffs or been in the lottery like Kobe and have done it again in this post the Spurs been an elite organization while the Lakers front office has been terrible post-Shaq, everythin you sayin is helpin my case but you too stupid to realize it.:michaeljordanlaugh:Duncan's numbers ain't nearly as good as they were for those first 3 finals which is why he hasn't been Finals MVP Parker and Leonard were the best players for those last 2 rings, funny you gettin butthurt about Duncan bein carried yet are quick to say Kobe got carried by Shaq which just shows that argument is all good until it applies to your guy.The Lakers are a horrible team thanks to that FO so of course Kobe's averages are from years ago since thats the last time they were in the Finals, smarten up.

No you're helping my case. If Kobe is so elite and everything you claim, why is it that he's unable to bring stability to the "greatest franchise in sports"? Riddle me that. Shouldn't he be able to rise above this alleged "medicore" and "incompetent" front office ?

Last time I checked, TD was winning titles with Fabriscio Oberto and Franciso Elson next to him in the starting line up while Kobe was complaining cause he wanted out of LA cause he couldn't cut the mustard

 

[malbaker86]

These are longevity stats though. He's been in the league 19 years. If we count longevity stats, Kobe and Karl Malone deserve to be higher



My point is that the Spurs trimmed his minutes well over a decade ago, and had him around 33mpg. And he hasn't put up beast numbers for over half of his career. It was one season he was down to 18ppg, I forget the year and too lazy to look it up right now, and I remember saying why is Duncan already at 18 and not even in league for 10? I think that was the first season Tony Parker was the leading scorer...of course Duncan was back to 20ppg the following year and he was under 20 ever since. Why did they trim his minutes so early? His game isn't athletic based, and they play a slow pace, so why change unless he could no longer do it? That early on takes him down a notch in my opinion. The rebounding has always been there, especially since they don't have other rebounders on the team...the on-the-ball defense will be there. But we judge the best of the best based on stats, and he's getting a pass. So it has to be the rings? 2 he was carried for. The past decade it hasn't even been his team.

Carried???? See below.......

Duncan's per game ranking on the spurs for all of their championship playoff runs. They want to say he was carried the last 2 titles. I'd say he was just as good as ever.

1999- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 3rd in assists (age:23)

2003- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 1st in assists (age:27)

2005- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 3rd in assists (age:29)

2007- 1st in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 3rd in assists (age:31)

2014- 2nd in points, 1st in Rebounds, 1st in blocks, 4th in assists (age:38)

 

[JarrodG]

I thought Timmy career > Kobe career was obvious

 

[Danie84]

EveryBODY know Diesel is why GOATbe have more than 2 rings, tho

 

[Sccit]

Lol at Kobe hasn't had help. nikka played with Shaq almost 10 damn years, played with Gasol for over 5 years, has had Dwight Howard come to LA, DPOY Ron Artest, but he hasn't had help? Do I need even bring up him having Malone and Payton as team mates too?

Why is it that TD has only had one marquee free agent sign with SA during his run? Oh that's right, because he never needed the help. His 2nd and 3rd best players were a 28th pick and a guy who was the next to last pick in the 1999 draft but let you tell, he's been fortunate to have elite talent surrounding him

Answer this, why is it that Duncan has NEVER SNIFFED the lottery or missing the playoffs while Kobe has been in the lottery and missed the playoffs....IN HIS PRIME

Oh and Tim Duncan gets carried? i'll quote the homie @JohnD post about his productivity in the 5 finals he's won and tell me that he's been carried:




@Stack Money

Post Kobe's last playoff averages...from YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEARS ago

DOESNT MATTER HOW THEY GOT THERE OR WHAT NUMBER THEY WAS PICKED, KOBE NEVER NEEDED MORE THAN 1 ALLSTAR ON HIS TEAM TO WIN..DUNCAN DID. SIMPLE SCIENCE.

ALL THOSE DUMBASS QUESTIONS U ASKED BEEN ANSWERED. U GOIN IN CIRCLES OF DESPERATION.

 

[Sccit]

EveryBODY know Diesel is why GOATbe have more than 2 rings, tho

MORE LIKE SMUSH PARKER N KWAME BROWN IS WHY HE DONT HAVE AT LEAST 8