Kobe Bryant's skill level was simply INSANE

[Swagnificent]

Thank god you finally realized that you didn't know what analytics means.

To think that you've been complaining about it for ten years and didn't even understand what you were talking about. Goes to show EXACTLY how little you understand about the game. A guy like you in anyone's front office would have the rest of the league running a train on your team.

But I gotta give you props for finally backing down and admitting it. Lots of guys here wouldn't have done that. I might even rep you for it.





Why do you think that that these advanced stats will automatically show you who the best player is? Some of them are pretty good with offense to a degree, but they can hardly take into account defense at all, which is a huge part of the game.





But I don't think that Lebron has been the best regular season offensive player in 2014-2017. Kevin Durant and Stephen Curry have been. Lebron was the best regular season player over somewhere around the 2006-2013 stretch, if not the whole thing.

Regular season doesn't show who the best player in the NBA is though. It doesn't matter how you perform against 30-52 teams or how well you do when everyone is playing at 80%. If it did, then James Harden and Russell Westbrook would be incredible players, and the 2010 Cavs and 2007 Mavs would have been amazing teams. What matters is how you perform when you're facing the best and everyone is playing at 100%. That's a far better determinate of ability than relatively meaningless regular season games.





That's a joke, first of all because his Finals stats from 2014-2017 are as good or better than the rest of his playoff stats, and second because the rest of his lineup has struggled without him even against that "weak conference". If it really were as easy as you are saying, then Lebron would have been playing 30 minutes a night staying rested for the Finals (like all the Warriors did) rather than being forced to be out there 40 minutes/night over and over.





What "double speak"? I have NEVER said that Lebron has been the "best player ALL season since 2013".

He's the best player in the NBA. He's the most valuable player in the NBA. He can take over on both sides of the court better when it matters than any other player in the game. (I should have posted his elimination game numbers as yet another proof that he's been the best.) He would be an idiot if he played with 100% effort for 40 minutes/night all season when he's in his 30s and knows that he'll be playing a 100+ game season for the seventh year in a row.

So you got nothing? You wrote an essay, but I didn't see no stats.

So now "advanced stats" like PER, win shares, WAR, and plus/minus don't matter because LeBron hasn't led in them for 4 years?

Either post stats that prove LeBron has been the best from 2014-2017 or admit he hasn't been the best player in the NBA. PERIOD.

 

[Selfish]

boggles my mind that there are grown men who fantasize about other men who play a goddamn stupid-ass game like this. lol, kobe bryant was not that good where you just marvel at him like that. at long last i have to ignore this fakkit swagnificent. him, @CantStop and a whole lot of you who are constantly talking about kobe bryant like he's jesus christ or something are losers and will never amount to anything in life. it's fukking pathetic and i would be ashamed to know you away from this forum. guarantee all of you fakkits die alone or from being plowed by a fat whore in a motel 6. ya'll disgust me. oh, and i got you ignored so i can't see your lameass responses. get something worthwhile going in your own empty and meaningless lives so that some fukking retard who plays a game that children can play doesn't impress you so much.

edit: still will never forget that gay-ass thread that cantstop made when kobe retired and he was talking about 'take care of my heart kobe' as though kobe actually was reading the shyt or actually gave a shyt about his stupid ass. goddamn, so many pathetic losers in this forum.

nikka go eat a HIV needle.
Kobe the Greatest

#LWO coming back and it got you bytch nikkas shaking in fear
#BBB
#returnofthe3peat

 

[Swagnificent]

Lebron ranks second all time in per

When did I say anything about all-time? I'm talking strictly from 2014-2017. The last 4 NBA seasons.

I'm waiting from the Bron stans who have built LeBron's case for being the best on stats to admit he hasn't been the best player in the NBA since 2013 since none of the "advanced stats" or any stats support that argument.

Since 2013, guys like KD, Steph, Russ, and Harden have outperformed him CONSISTENTLY when it comes to stats. Plus a couple of them like KD and Steph have won rings over him.

Going by the Bron stans logic of stats above all else, LeBron has not been the best player in the NBA the last 4 years.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Thank god you finally realized that you didn't know what analytics means.

To think that you've been complaining about it for ten years and didn't even understand what you were talking about. Goes to show EXACTLY how little you understand about the game. A guy like you in anyone's front office would have the rest of the league running a train on your team.

But I gotta give you props for finally backing down and admitting it. Lots of guys here wouldn't have done that. I might even rep you for it.





Why do you think that that these advanced stats will automatically show you who the best player is? Some of them are pretty good with offense to a degree, but they can hardly take into account defense at all, which is a huge part of the game.

But I don't think that Lebron has been the best regular season offensive player in 2014-2017. Kevin Durant and Stephen Curry have been. Lebron was the best regular season player over somewhere around the 2006-2013 stretch, if not the whole thing.

Regular season doesn't show who the best player in the NBA is though. It doesn't matter how you perform against 30-52 teams or how well you do when everyone is playing at 80%. If it did, then James Harden and Russell Westbrook would be incredible players, and the 2010 Cavs and 2007 Mavs would have been amazing teams. What matters is how you perform when you're facing the best and everyone is playing at 100%. That's a far better determinate of ability than relatively meaningless regular season games.





That's a joke, first of all because his Finals stats from 2014-2017 are as good or better than the rest of his playoff stats, and second because the rest of his lineup has struggled without him even against that "weak conference". If it really were as easy as you are saying, then Lebron would have been playing 30 minutes a night staying rested for the Finals (like all the Warriors did) rather than being forced to be out there 40 minutes/night over and over.





What "double speak"? I have NEVER said that Lebron has been the "best player ALL season since 2013".

He's the best player in the NBA. He's the most valuable player in the NBA. He can take over on both sides of the court better when it matters than any other player in the game. (I should have posted his elimination game numbers as yet another proof that he's been the best.) He would be an idiot if he played with 100% effort for 40 minutes/night all season when he's in his 30s and knows that he'll be playing a 100+ game season for the seventh year in a row.

So you got nothing? You wrote an essay, but I didn't see no stats.

So now "advanced stats" like PER, win shares, WAR, and plus/minus don't matter because LeBron hasn't led in them for 4 years?

Either post stats that prove LeBron has been the best from 2014-2017 or admit he hasn't been the best player in the NBA. PERIOD.

READING COMPREHENSION.

I bolded some relevant parts to help.


You asked for stats that show that Lebron was the best player from 2014-2017. I gave you playoff stats.

You asked for regular season stats that show that Lebron was the best player from 2014-2017. I told you that I didn't think he had been the best regular season player on offense during that time, Curry and Durant were.

What about this don't you understand?

 

[Swagnificent]

READING COMPREHENSION.

I bolded some relevant parts to help.


You asked for stats that show that Lebron was the best player from 2014-2017. I gave you playoff stats.

You asked for regular season stats that show that Lebron was the best player from 2014-2017. I told you that I didn't think he had been the best regular season player on offense during that time, Curry and Durant were.

What about this don't you understand?

First of all he's been even worse on defense so there's no need to put the qualifier of offense in there as if LeBron has been anywhere close to a great defensive player in 5 years.

But lets dig into this deeper. So you've finally admitted that he wasn't the best during the regular seasons of 2014-2017.

How come I didn't see you making threads or writing posts arguing this? I mean you to get up in every Kobe thread talking regular season stats.

Why don't I remember you being a crusader for the argument LeBron wasn't the best player in the NBA during the regular season in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017?

Cause I'm pretty sure if you were saying that back then, I and everyone else would remember.

 

[Rigby.]

hes top three scorer and hes one of the best peremiter defenders in the nba and he was very athletic anda great passer wtf are u talking about. ur literally wrong about everything u said. he was one of the best rebounder guards. oh and he has five rings hes not no damn fringe top 10 player. hes automatic top 10 if u said frige top 5 tht would been better

He wasn't a great defender in a good ass minute and we can take the rest of those points to the statistics if you want

 

[Rigby.]

First of all he's been even worse on defense so there's no need to put the qualifier of offense in there as if LeBron has been anywhere close to a great defensive player in 5 years.

But lets dig into this deeper. So you've finally admitted that he wasn't the best during the regular seasons of 2014-2017.

How come I didn't see you making threads or writing posts arguing this? I mean you to get up in every Kobe thread talking regular season stats.

Why don't I remember you being a crusader for the argument LeBron wasn't the best player in the NBA during the regular season in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017?

Cause I'm pretty sure if you were saying that back then, I and everyone else would remember.

Not to bump in, but he said Bron was the MVP for several of those Cavs teams over that span which does lend itself to a greater scope than just offense or defense

 

[Professor Emeritus]

First of all he's been even worse on defense so there's no need to put the qualifier of offense in there as if LeBron has been anywhere close to a great defensive player in 5 years.

But lets dig into this deeper. So you've finally admitted that he wasn't the best during the regular seasons of 2014-2017.

How come I didn't see you making threads or writing posts arguing this? I mean you to get up in every Kobe thread talking regular season stats.

Why don't I remember you being a crusader for the argument LeBron wasn't the best player in the NBA during the regular season in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017?

Cause I'm pretty sure if you were saying that back then, I and everyone else would remember.

Swag, you so often have so little idea what is going on. Instead of arguing with the imaginary posts you think I made, why don't you argue with the things I actually said?

In a discussion in 2016 about how many MVP's Lebron "really deserved":

If you go by how the award usually is awarded, I think he gets 6. 2006 and 2008 were great statistical seasons, but his team just didn't have enough success compared to what is expected of an MVP season. So he gets the 4 he was given, plus 2011 and 2015. Durant barely edges him out in 2014, and Curry deserves it over him this year.

That's me saying that Durant and Curry were having better seasons than Bron years ago, and you randomly claim that I only "finally admitted it" now.


In a discussion at the end of the 2017 season about who deserves the MVP:

I feel the same way to an extent.
I would go

1.Harden
2.Kawhi
3.Bron
4.Russ

I have the same top-3 and the same #4. Just can't decide on an order for the top-3 at all.

Durant gets #5.

Kawhi is far more of a rival to Lebron than Westbrook is or ever will be. Yet when the Cavs had their losing streak and the MVP was clearly out of reach for Lebron, I was still rooting with everything that they give it to Kawhi over Westbrook./QUOTE]

And as Rigby pointed out, that's "Who is the Most Valuable Player", not even "Who played the best during the regular season". I pointed out elsewhere that Curry and Durant were having fantastic seasons, but that they didn't deserve MVP just because their teams didn't need them as much.

 

[Swagnificent]

Swag, you so often have so little idea what is going on. Instead of arguing with the imaginary posts you think I made, why don't you argue with the things I actually said?

In a discussion in 2016 about how many MVP's Lebron "really deserved":



That's me saying that Durant and Curry were having better seasons than Bron years ago, and you randomly claim that I only "finally admitted it" now.


In a discussion at the end of the 2017 season about who deserves the MVP:






And as Rigby pointed out, that's "Who is the Most Valuable Player", not even "Who played the best during the regular season". I pointed out elsewhere that Curry and Durant were having fantastic seasons, but that they didn't deserve MVP just because their teams didn't need them as much.

Here comes the double speak. Who said anything about MVP? We talking about who was the BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA? We all know the NBA MVP award don't always go to the best player. I'm asking where were you in 2014-2017 arguing that LeBron WAS NOT the best player in the NBA. Our debate in this thread has nothing to do with judging who should be an MVP. We're talking about judging which player is better than another. Not who is having the more MVP worthy season. Stop with these cac tacits of double speak.

I want you to cite posts of you arguing that LeBron is no longer the best player in the NBA over a 82 game season in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017. REMEMBER, our dispute in this thread is not about who is more worthy of MVP. We are discussing how we judge who is better when debating between 2 players. You are the one who has argued STATS should be the barometer. I'm trying to find where you were in 2014-2017 regular seasons on this question of who is the best player in the NBA during that time. Remember, the discussion of who is the best player in the NBA don't just start in the playoffs. We discuss that all throughout the season. Where were you during the regular seasons of 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 when people were debating who was the best in the NBA? We should all remember you arguing that LeBron wasn't the best during those years since you are all about stats. Right?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Here comes the double speak. Who said anything about MVP? We talking about who was the BEST PLAYER IN THE NBA? We all know the NBA MVP award don't always go to the best player. I'm asking where were you in 2014-2017 arguing that LeBron WAS NOT the best player in the NBA. Our debate in this thread has nothing to do with judging who should be an MVP. We're talking about judging which player is better than another. Not who is having the more MVP worthy season. Stop with these cac tacits of double speak.

Lebron did not play like the best player during the regular season in 2014-2017. Lebron played like the best player during the playoffs in 2014-2017.

What is so hard for you to understand about that?

I want you to cite posts of you arguing that LeBron is no longer the best player in the NBA over a 82 game season in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017. REMEMBER, our dispute in this thread is not about who is more worthy of MVP. We are discussing how we judge who is better when debating between 2 players. You are the one who has argued STATS should be the barometer. I'm trying to find where you were in 2014-2017 regular seasons on this question of who is the best player in the NBA during that time. Remember, the discussion of who is the best player in the NBA don't just start in the playoffs. We discuss that all throughout the season. Where were you during the regular seasons of 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 when people were debating who was the best in the NBA? We should all remember you arguing that LeBron wasn't the best during those years since you are all about stats. Right?

Swagnifiicant, you have REPEATEDLY shown to have been wrong about past discussions, shown to not even understand the words involved. So stop accusing me of bullshyt that didn't happen.

If you disagree with something I said, then QUOTE ME. Don't just make up fake arguments that "must have happened" at some point in years past, find them and we'll discuss them. But I can't participate in your argument with some made-up imaginary version of me that only exists in your own head.

 

[Swagnificent]

Lebron did not play like the best player during the regular season in 2014-2017. Lebron played like the best player during the playoffs in 2014-2017.

What is so hard for you to understand about that?

.

Can you please cite posts from that period where you were making those arguments?

Stop acting like we only discuss who is the best during the post-season. Every regular season there are threads on who is CURRENTLY the best player in the NBA. And those debates are always centered around who is currently playing the best. Not who was the best the year before. Thus, if you now agree that LeBron was not the best during the 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 regular seasons, then it shouldn't be hard for us to remember you being one of the guys making the strongest arguments against LeBron being the best during any one of those years.

You did a good job derailing this thread that was about Kobe's skillful elegance, I just want to know how many threads you derailed on who was the best player in the NBA during the 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 seasons where you were arguing that someone other than LeBron was currently the best player in the NBA since they were statistically superior to LeBron.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Can you please cite posts from that period where you were making those arguments?

Stop acting like we only discuss who is the best during the post-season. Every regular season there are threads on who is CURRENTLY the best player in the NBA. And those debates are always centered around who is currently playing the best. Not who was the best the year before. Thus, if you now agree that LeBron was not the best during the 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 regular seasons, then it shouldn't be hard for us to remember you being one of the guys making the strongest arguments against LeBron being the best during any one of those years.

You did a good job derailing this thread that was about Kobe's skillful elegance, I just want to know how many threads you derailed on who was the best player in the NBA during the 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 seasons where you were arguing that someone other than LeBron was currently the best player in the NBA since they were statistically superior to LeBron.

Lebron James WAS the best player in the NBA from 2014-2017, and I already made the statistical case for that. He proved it during the playoffs over and over again.

Lebron James DID NOT put up the best numbers in the NBA during most of the regular seasons from 2014-2017, and did not deserve the regular season MVP most of those years. I ALREADY CITED POSTS where I had made those arguments back then.

You're just wallowing in your own confusion at this point. I'm tired of having to correct you on the same point 4-5 times before you get it - no one else here cares. I'm done with the conversation.

 

[Swagnificent]

Lebron James WAS the best player in the NBA from 2014-2017, and I already made the statistical case for that. He proved it during the playoffs over and over again.

Lebron James DID NOT put up the best numbers in the NBA during most of the regular seasons from 2014-2017, and did not deserve the regular season MVP most of those years. I ALREADY CITED POSTS where I had made those arguments back then.

You're just wallowing in your own confusion at this point. I'm tired of having to correct you on the same point 4-5 times before you get it - no one else here cares. I'm done with the conversation.

Running away like a bytch because your contradictions have been exposed?

I'm just taking your ridiculous logic to its stupid conclusions. If stats are all that matter then at no point during the 2014-2017 regular seasons should you have ever argued or thought that LeBron was the best.

You can't argue stats show you who the best player is and then argue regular season stats don't matter in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 when discussing who is the best player during those years. I got no problem if AFTER the playoffs you say LeBron is now the best player cause he won the championship and/or put up the best numbers in the playoffs.

But you can't say LeBron was the best player while we are in the middle of the season if someone else is putting up better numbers. For example, if in January next season Russell Westbrook or Kevin Durant are having statistically superior seasons to LeBron, you can't argue LeBron is actually better. You would have to be one of the biggest proponents that Westbrook or Durant is the best player in the NBA.

Got it?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Running away like a bytch because your contradictions have been exposed?

I'm just taking your ridiculous logic to its stupid conclusions. If stats are all that matter then at no point during the 2014-2017 regular seasons should you have ever argued or thought that LeBron was the best.

You can't argue stats show you who the best player is and then argue regular season stats don't matter in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017 when discussing who is the best player during those years. I got no problem if AFTER the playoffs you say LeBron is now the best player cause he won the championship and/or put up the best numbers in the playoffs.

But you can't say LeBron was the best player while we are in the middle of the season if someone else is putting up better numbers. For example, if in January next season Russell Westbrook or Kevin Durant are having statistically superior seasons to LeBron, you can't argue LeBron is actually better. You would have to be one of the biggest proponents that Westbrook or Durant is the best player in the NBA.

Got it?

Nothing in this entire comment bears any relation to anything I've said. You're confused all over the place.

Good bye, and have fun continuing to lose arguments with imaginary people.

 

[Sccit]

Swag, you so often have so little idea what is going on. Instead of arguing with the imaginary posts you think I made, why don't you argue with the things I actually said?

In a discussion in 2016 about how many MVP's Lebron "really deserved":



That's me saying that Durant and Curry were having better seasons than Bron years ago, and you randomly claim that I only "finally admitted it" now.


In a discussion at the end of the 2017 season about who deserves the MVP:






And as Rigby pointed out, that's "Who is the Most Valuable Player", not even "Who played the best during the regular season". I pointed out elsewhere that Curry and Durant were having fantastic seasons, but that they didn't deserve MVP just because their teams didn't need them as much.

SOMEBODY PUT THIS GUY OUT HIS MISERY