Kobe Was Ridiculous

[Trojan 24]

Bron getting his # retired in 10% of the NBA's stadiums. Y'all Laker fans gonna be staring at his jersey every home game and multiple road games on the annual.

Might be four stadiums once he leaves LA and wins multiple Manu/Walton titles in his twilight years with Pop and Wemby.

Celebrate being a transient brehs

 

[Professor Emeritus]

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Rim protector is nearly always more important than a perimeter defender. Shaq did his job as a rim protector, averaging 2.5 blocks/game while keeping his defensive responsibility in check and keeping the opponent from having easy paths to the basket. He had big block totals and strong interior defense in each big series during the threepeat. In that 2000-2002 window, the only teams that gave the Lakers trouble were ones that put up a ton of midrange jump shots. There's a reason he made 3 All-Defensive teams in that stretch despite there being only two center slots and having to go up against Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, David Robinson, and Ben Wallace.

Perimeter defenders can only be more important when they're either a great team defender/defensive leader, or when they completely shut down an important #1 option. Kobe in 2000-2004 wasn't that. He was a better on-ball defender than a team defender, and he often had lapses. He wasn't the defensive leader, and he didn't shut down his primary responsibility in any major series. Like Phil said, he got by on spectacular plays that got attention, not on good consistent defense.

“Kobe’s defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league’s all-defensive team. The voters have been seduced by his remarkable athleticism and spectacular steals, but he hasn’t played sound, fundamental defense. Mesmerized by the ball, he’s gambled too frequently, putting us out of position, forcing rotations that leave a man wide open, and doesn’t keep his feet on the ground.”

Here are the 7 top perimeter scoring threats that the Lakers faced in competitive series from 2000-2004. Tell me which one Kobe shut down:


15ppg on 58 TS% - Steve Smith regular season
18ppg on 61 TS% - Steve Smith against Lakers


18ppg on 60 TS% - Reggie Miller regular season
24ppg on 59 TS% - Reggie Miller against Lakers


18ppg on 55 TS% - Jalen Rose regular season
23ppg on 56 TS% - Jalen Rose against Lakers


31ppg on 52 TS% - Allen Iverson regular season
36ppg on 49 TS% - Allen Iverson against Lakers


14ppg on 51 TS% - Mike Bibby regular season
23ppg on 53 TS% - Mike Bibby against Lakers


18ppg on 52 TS% - Rip Hamilton regular season
21ppg on 50 TS% - Rip Hamilton against Lakers


17 ppg on 55 TS% - Chauncey Billups regular season
21ppg on 70 TS% - Chauncey Billups against Lakers



Outside of Iverson and Reggie, those aren't even 1st-tier scorers, yet they ALL got buckets against the Lakers. If Kobe was more valuable on defense than Shaq was, what the hell happened?

 

[god shamgod]

lol at how MJ beating the Cavs is a big narrative for him, but Pippen beating the Cavs with no MJ shouldn't count as anything special.


Bulls replaced Jordan with a damn near useless Italy-league SG, and STILL were a ECSF team on the cusp of a ECF and possibly Finals appearance.

Lakers traded Shaq for three Miami starters including Odom who had been their 1A/1B option in an ECSF run, and won just 34 games.



Of course, you can make other excuses for why Kobe came up so short that year. (Excuses y'all never make for Bron.) But claiming that Kobe in the first run did anything qualitatively better than Pippen in the first run just doesn't fly. Pippen's Finals stats were just as good if not better, his success without his #1 was clearly better, and he was doing MORE than Kobe that doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

I don't even have to argue that Pippen was better than Kobe during those Finals. I'm just arguing that they were in the same ballpark. And that argument is easy to make.

Jordan had 0 all stars when he beat the cavs pippen had two & a solid rookie who already proven to be more clutch than him

That conveniently gets ignored

I have nothing to do with y’all stan wars.that ‘94 bulls team was more than pipoen. And the next season proved it when they were a 34-31 6 seed before jordan came back. The 94 bulls won 55 games & lost in the 2nd round cp3 got clowned for it pippen gets praised for it

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Jordan had 0 all stars when he beat the cavs pippen had two & a solid rookie who already proven to be more clutch than him

That conveniently gets ignored

LOL at you giving Pippen credit for Grant and BJ, but then pretending they weren't on most of Jordan's teams too.

And for some reason you forgot to mention Oakley and Pippen on that first Cavs win. Yeah, they weren't all-stars, but they were comparable players to Grant and BJ in '94.

Kukoc gets ignored because he was a rookie playing 19 minutes/game in the postseason.

I have nothing to do with y’all stan wars.that ‘94 bulls team was more than pipoen. And the next season proved it when they were a 34-31 6 seed before jordan came back.

No one said the 1994 Bulls were "Just Pippen", but the 1993 Bulls weren't "Just Jordan and Pippen" either. It's wild you keep trying to pretend Grant/BJ were only on the '94 squad but not on the '91-'93 squads.

And WTF does '95 prove when the Bulls had lost their #1 AND #3 options with no compensation for either one? The fact that Pippen still had the Bulls with a winning record when Steve Kerr/Will Purdue were his #3/#4 complementary scorers is wild. That squad was HORRIBLE inside, which is why Shaq and Grant pushed their shyt in even after MJ got back.

 

[Sweet Pea]

I was wondering why this thread was so long. I come in here and see why. Caps lock and Rhakim with another pointless back and forth. Caps lock is full of shyt with anything LeBron related and it’s the same for Rhakim with Kobe. It’s like 2 peas in a pod except caps lock might actually be mentally retarded

 

[GreatestLaker]

Just shows you much more talented the Bulls were than any other team in that era. Imagine you take arguably the best player ever off the team and they still won 55 games and advance in the playoffs with a realistic shot at making it to the conference finals.

 

[Sccit]

This is ignorance at an amazing level.



2001 Spurs were a hopeless squad with zero help for Duncan once Anderson went out. They lost in a sweep by a combined 90 points. None of the games was within 10 in the last 40 seconds.

Sixers were a well-coached fighting team that won Game 1, had great chances to win Games 2 and 3, and only lost by a combined 33 points.

Anyone who claims that joke of a WCF (Games 3 and 4 decided by 30-40 points) was the "real Finals", while trying to say that damn near even Finals doesn't count, is up to their ears in bullshyt.


And you seriously posted rounds 1 and 2 as well, which were even worse comp, while claiming the Finals doesn't count.

Spoiler

2001 Spurs were throwing out career benchwarmer Antonio Daniels as their #2 option. They started completely washed 38yo Terry Porter at point guard and half-washed 35yo David Robinson at center. They lost Derek Anderson to injury and Sean Elliott to bad kidneys, they didn't have Parker or Manu yet or even Stephen Jackson. They were NOT a contender, it was a Tim Duncan one-man show.

Spurs lost in a sweep by a combined 90 points. Only ONE of the games was within 14, when Duncan put up a monster 40-15-3 with 4 blocks, nearly outscoring Shaq and Kobe combined, and still had to hit a three-pointer at the buzzer to cut the final margin from 10 to 7.


Meanwhile, the Sixers actually had a 1-0 lead on Lakers. NONE of their games was decided by more than 14 points, in fact, until Game 4 they were all decided by single digits. They won Game 1, missed two free throws with 3 minutes left in Game 2 that would have cut the lead to 3 (followed by turnover on a possession that could have then tied it), and were within 1 with 30 seconds left in Game 3. Overall they were outscored by a total margin of 33 points. Unlike the Spurs' one-man show, they had Dikembe and Iverson both playing at an elite level, two All-NBA guys to the Spurs's one.

THIS IS A SLICK WAY OF TRYNA AVOID SAYING

“KOBE WAS ON PAR OR BETTER THAN SHAQ IN THE 2001 AND 2002 WESTERN CONFERENCE PLAYOFFS”


U NOT AS SMART AS U THINK

 

[Sccit]

I was wondering why this thread was so long. I come in here and see why. Caps lock and Rhakim with another pointless back and forth. Caps lock is full of shyt with anything LeBron related and it’s the same for Rhakim with Kobe. It’s like 2 peas in a pod except caps lock might actually be mentally retarded

I DIDNT EVEN ENTER THIS THREAD TIL
THE LAST COUPLE PAGES U DICCRIDIN MORON

 

[fifth column]

Horace Grant left as a free agent. You expect the team to lose their #1 AND #3 with zero compensation and not have an impact?

Of course, even without MJ or Grant, Pippen still had them with a winning record at 34-31.

And even with MJ back, the loss of Grant killed them in the ECSF when Grant took them apart to the tune of 18 and 11 on 65% shooting because they had no rebounding and defense in their bigs. That's why they went out and got All-NBA Rodman despite the warning signs, cause they knew they weren't winning without someone who could play elite defense on bigs and give them a second rebounder besides Pippen.

There was that Toni Kukoc hall of fame euro who joined in 1994 and avg 15-16ppg when MJ left that you conveniently forgot to mention, your levels of untrustworthiness know no bounds when it comes to MJ’s legacy

 

[Professor Emeritus]

There was that Toni Kukoc hall of fame euro who joined in 1994 and avg 15-16ppg when MJ left that you conveniently forgot to mention, your levels of untrustworthiness know no bounds when it comes to MJ’s legacy

But he was a rookie off the bench averaging 19 minutes/game in 1994, basically tied with Kerr and Longley for 6/7/8 slots. What he averaged in 1998 is irrelevant.

Breh is seriously angry that I didn't include the 6th man.

 

[fifth column]

But he was a rookie off the bench averaging 19 minutes/game in 1994, basically tied with Kerr and Longley for 6/7/8 slots. What he averaged in 1998 is irrelevant.

Breh is seriously angry that I didn't include the 6th man.

He was a key contributor to the 1994 and 1995 team, the point is Kobe ain’t a sidekick like Pippen.

 

[Sccit]

He was a key contributor to the 1994 and 1995 team, the point is Kobe ain’t a sidekick like Pippen.

BRO

THIS GUY TRIED TO ARGUE SHAQ OVER KOBE ON DEFENSE LMFAOOOOOO

THERES LITERALLY NOTHING HE WONT SAY

 

[god shamgod]

There was that Toni Kukoc hall of fame euro who joined in 1994 and avg 15-16ppg when MJ left that you conveniently forgot to mention, your levels of untrustworthiness know no bounds when it comes to MJ’s legacy

And the bulls had the #2 defense in the league that season with bj Armstrong averaging the same #’s as 93-94.yet the bulls were a 34-31 mid 6 seed that never had more than a 3 game winning streak that whole season until jordan came back with pippen leading them in all categories like the season before

That’s why I stopped responding dude be disingenuous af

 

[Professor Emeritus]

BRO

THIS GUY TRIED TO ARGUE SHAQ OVER KOBE ON DEFENSE LMFAOOOOOO

THERES LITERALLY NOTHING HE WONT SAY

Notice you still can't rebut the argument. Your only comeback is "feelings". You were, what, 12 years old when that series was ongoing?

Kobe wasn't the rim protector, wasn't an elite team defender, and every good perimeter scorer he faced in the playoffs ate nice.... so what is your argument for him being more valuable than Shaq's elite interior defense?

And the bulls had the #2 defense in the league that season with bj Armstrong averaging the same #’s as 93-94.yet the bulls were a 34-31 mid 6 seed that never had more than a 3 game winning streak that whole season until jordan came back with pippen leading them in all categories like the season before

That’s why I stopped responding dude be disingenuous af

How was it disingenuous to point out they lost Grant in addition to Jordan, but you kept talking as if 1994 and 1995 were the same squad?

How is it disingenuous to point out that MJ still couldn't get them out of the 2nd round when he came back because they got destroyed interiorly, then they went out and got Rodman to replace Grant?

BJ was at best the 4th best player on the '93 Bulls. He had to be Pippen's #2 in '95. Huge difference.

 

[Sccit]

Notice you still can't rebut the argument. Your only comeback is "feelings". You were, what, 12 years old when that series was ongoing?

Kobe wasn't the rim protector, wasn't an elite team defender, and every good perimeter scorer he faced in the playoffs ate nice.... so what is your argument for him being more valuable than Shaq's elite interior defense?





How was it disingenuous to point out they lost Grant in addition to Jordan, but you kept talking as if 1994 and 1995 were the same squad?

How is it disingenuous to point out that MJ still couldn't get them out of the 2nd round when he came back because they got destroyed interiorly, then they went out and got Rodman to replace Grant?

BJ was at best the 4th best player on the '93 Bulls. He had to be Pippen's #2 in '95. Huge difference.