Kool Moe Dee, Ice-T, Canibus ,Etc : Is LL Cool J Undefeated in Terms of His Battle Record?

[Erratic415]

fukk no. KMD was serving him something serious and Canibus got him. shyt, KMD fukked him up on stage. I remember seeing the picture in an issue of Rapmasters back in the day wondering why the fukk LL was on stage with KMD and then KMD told the story about it along with Red Alert and others. Nah, LL, like Drake, was able to stay afloat due to the machine behind him and female fanbase. 30 years from now, the people will try to erase Drake getting his ass handed to him by Kendrick, Pusha T, and Joe Budden. So he will be able to make that claim as well. Btw, I'm an LL fan and I will be buying his new album, but I'm not going to lie for him.

I always liked KMD’s disses towards LL more than vice versa.

LL was a better artist, as KMD even conceded, and adapted with the times better. But I always liked KMD’s actual disses more

Put the microphone down, let's square-off
You need a hand, you got hands for
Tryna be me, now LL stands for
Lower Level, Lack Luster
Last Least, Limp Lover
Lousy Lame, Late Lethargic
Lazy Lemon, Little Logic
Lucky Leech, Liver Lipped
Laborious Louse on a Loser's Lips
Live in Limbo, Lyrical Lapse
Low Life with the loud raps, boy
You can't win, huh, I don't bend
Look what you got yourself in
Just usin' your name, I took those L's
Hung 'em on your head and rocked your bells

I always liked LL’s disses towards Ice T the most of his.

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

not a fan of Freddie Gibbs, I’m glad he got ignored

me either, but the fact still stands his career, whatever it is, wasn't ruined by a machine backing LL. Don't get me wrong, I'm an LL fan. I bought his last album too. I have all of his albums except 3 of them, and I think you know what those 3 are.

 

[Awesome Wells]

no, the media and Def Jam killed careers. It's funny that when LL was no longer the top priority at def jam, careers were no longer ended. When Jay Z was going at him, and Freddie Gibbs of all people. . Money talks, bs runs a marathon.

By the time Gibbs came around and dropped his first real project, LL was already off Def Jam.

Media didn't have anything to do with Canibus's career ending. It's like Wyclef said in '99, "Some people are too smart to see how dumb they are", referencing 'Bis. Dude blamed everybody but himself, for his career dying. But was trying to manage himself, and wouldn't listen to OG's who tried to help him. His buzz got to his head. DJ Clue even tried to help him, and he came out saying Clue doesn't know how to launch an artist. Right after that, dude starts Fabolous's career. LOL!! Canibus was just an idiot who couldn't get out of his own way.

 

[Tommy Gibbs]

By the time Gibbs came around and dropped his first real project, LL was already off Def Jam.

Media didn't have anything to do with Canibus's career ending. It's like Wyclef said in '99, "Some people are too smart to see how dumb they are", referencing 'Bis. Dude blamed everybody but himself, for his career dying. But was trying to manage himself, and wouldn't listen to OG's who tried to help him. His buzz got to his head. DJ Clue even tried to help him, and he came out saying Clue doesn't know how to launch an artist. Right after that, dude starts Fabolous's career. LOL!! Canibus was just an idiot who couldn't get out of his own way.

now this is just my opinion, I personally feel that he should have stayed with Clef. Had he stayed with Clef, he would have been on the 25 to Life song from the Life Soundtrack in place of Raptile(whatever happened to him? he was dope), got better production for his 2nd album from Clef and Salaam Remi, and structured a better album for the mainstream. I think he ruined it by dissing clef and leaving the camp cuz this was around the time Clef was blowing up with everything like. Canibus probably could have had a spot on "maria maria".

 

[TripleAgent]

now this is just my opinion, I personally feel that he should have stayed with Clef. Had he stayed with Clef, he would have been on the 25 to Life song from the Life Soundtrack in place of Raptile(whatever happened to him? he was dope), got better production for his 2nd album from Clef and Salaam Remi, and structured a better album for the mainstream. I think he ruined it by dissing clef and leaving the camp cuz this was around the time Clef was blowing up with everything like. Canibus probably could have had a spot on "maria maria".

Wyclef was never going to make good records with Canibus. There are dozens of people that would have handled his career better. WAY better.

 

[Awesome Wells]

now this is just my opinion, I personally feel that he should have stayed with Clef. Had he stayed with Clef, he would have been on the 25 to Life song from the Life Soundtrack in place of Raptile(whatever happened to him? he was dope), got better production for his 2nd album from Clef and Salaam Remi, and structured a better album for the mainstream. I think he ruined it by dissing clef and leaving the camp cuz this was around the time Clef was blowing up with everything like. Canibus probably could have had a spot on "maria maria".

I never thought he was a good fit for Clef's camp, lol.

When he was rolling with Charles Suitt and was under Group Home Management, and was around all those Queens dudes, I thought that's who he should've run with. They tried to get his deal done at Def Jam, and Def Jam was crazy about "Bis and threw all kinds of money, plans and ideas at him, but he turned them down. They said they wanted to do an Illmatic thing for him and get all top producers to do his album, and he passed on it.

Wyclef said he couldn't even focus on Canibus the way he wanted because he was still working on touring for The Carnival and was still a new solo artist himself. That sh*t really seemed like a recipe for disaster from the jump.

 

[Art Barr]

If you know how the moe dee battle started.

Then you know ll won.
As moe dee precipitated the battle..stating ll was commercial. When moe dee was the commercial sellout.
as soon as moe dee went solo.
Leaving the three.


Moe dee ducked the battle with silver fox. His real contemporary. Then when ll had success.
From actually making a hiphop culture submission with i need love. Moe dee was out here making ol school way of thought sellout commercial records.

Sohh when ll was forced to basically battle his mentor opp. That ducked ll mentor. Ll got to use all the bells whistles and underhanded tactics.
that moe dee used and beat moe dee at his own game.

Plus moe dee had no grasp of new school way of thought battle tactics. As ll used the dj.
to combat the impact of lets go.
being arguably ahead of its time.
as the best released radio nation diss campaign. after silver fox's fantasy three biters in the city. Was the original goat diss record. In the ol school way of thought.
Sohh when moe dee ducked silver fox. To battle ll.
Moe dee created the parameters to how moe dee was defeated.
Sohh let's go being rhe first nationally debuted primetime released record on the wbmx stations. Also hurt moe dee in the long term. As it never bubbled with the actual hiphop dj. To build mystique culturally. It went full pop out the gate. Which at the time gave moe dee the lead.
Yet ll never dissed moe dee to really start the battle. Giving ll time.
Plus the ability to basically ignore moe dee. To play up moe dee being an old sellout has been. Which ll used masterfully with defjam.
The only issue is. Rap was not a really a primetime drawing entity solidly at the time. Sohh culturally in hiphop. Ll still could counter by staying grounded using new school way of thought marketing and permeation from defjam. Where ll countered with a b side white label exclusive in jack the ripper. Where ll's jack the ripper existed.
just like the myth of jack the ripper then. Before technology made more facts.
about jack the ripper more prevalent. Back then tho. Jack the ripper was like a rogue surgeon serial killer. similar to the real jack the ripper.
it was patterned after in name.
As the cultural word of mouth to combat let's go.
With the defjam b side to radio prime time, let's go.
Rivaled the primetime permeation radio release of let's go.
Sohh after both flopped culturally selling out.
in both their respective albums. Ll had mystique on his side. As jack the ripper was available.
only on the tape version of wwap.
sohh after a long lull period. Where ll let kool moe dee exasperate himself.
Ll got smart for mama said. To enlist marley marl. for rhe jinglin baby remix. That later seguewayed into mama said.
which was like ll being given the book of kane. Where ll had the vinyl b side build of mama said. Boom'n system was a mysterious censorship bside. To take over rhe streets, dj, jeeps, radio, video, and club.
Aa well aa round the way girl.
Plus the first comeback. With rumors of this diss called the break of dawn. Being another mysterious white label diss.

Sohh when mama said dropped.
The actual song.
It actEd like.
the coming to the ring comeback theme music.
where as moe dee never had a grasp.
on direction sonically.
or in scope as a artist in the new school way of thought. Where ll was able to outlast moe dee by attrition. By also having to the break of dawn. On the perfect classic mama said long player, lp.

As the change in sonic landscape. Completely showed the disconnect and commercial sellout direction of moe dee. That moe dee's go all in style was outdated and unable to counter ll. As ll had beat moe dee at the terms moe dee created to battle ll. While duckin silver fox as well.
Sohh once the actual parameters of moe dee attack was outlasted in a war of attrition is how ll won.
Enter mama said breaking every barrier for a culturally endorsed solo rap album.
That moe dee lost the battle by not being able to compete. In a war of attrition moe dee set up.
As ll won by outlasting moe dee. Plus beating moe dee in the intangibles. That moe dee was not able to transistion to. In the change of the sonic landscape. Plus culturally being at odds with the new school way of thought.
as a ol school way of thought legacy hold over.


art barr



Canibus lost from being countered.
Plus not having a technical rubrick to translate to the sonic landscape change. Aa well as alienating other skilled contemporaries. Where canibus pissed off redman. To the point the redman lo mein rhyme bodied canibus. To give ll a chink in the armor and a blueprint to follow. In order to fully dispatch a wounded by redman, canibus.
Where redman served canibus live.
eating with a mouth full of chinese food. While scarf'n down a carton of lo mein chinese food allegedly. hence the name of rhe lo mein freestyle.
Where back in the day. Something like that may have never been known. Yet the early power of rhe internet. Actually covered the lo mein redman massacre. So the invincible canibus was invincible no more. That allegedly caused canibus to counter and deflected.
to go into an early accapella of the ll diss to save face. Where ll now had crowd response of the diss. Plus knowledge of this happening possibly as well.
So when ll countered.
Plus served wyclef. Then followed up with the retrospective joint to put the battle in proper perspective. canibus lost every round.

As canibus precipitated the battle.
While not holding his end of rhe bargain.
in competing on a major in a public commercial battle. Where now the battle will be judged.
on a more than just the battle records. Canibus fukked up. By trying to launch his album with the diss. Whereas ll countered with a bside. Which was basically a new wave industry promo on cd. That would be viewed as just a stand alone vinyl b side.
So ll was only judged by that b side. Once ll countered with the b side.
Being on dmx's album. The completely industry changing dmx album. Then countered clef with a b side. Ll used that momentum. To launch the introspective i killed you battle record.
on the goat album and ended the battle. As it showed ll was superior in timeline conparison.
Plus ll countered any one in the battle. by even having lennox lewis in The jlo videos. To combat the mic tyson canibus celeb shyt as well. Once ll covered every base with better strategy and execution. In every possible way. Plus canibus's inability to up technical skill and rubrick. To the sonic landscape change. Ll just walked all over canibus. As ll was able to expose canibus.
as a light weight biter and ll stan. Plus place the battle in a realm. where canibus could not compete head to head.
As well as canibus not being a real battle emcee. Just a transplant immigrant guy.
who had a number of really good style war era verses. That would be made obsolete by the sonic landscape change.



Art Barr



Acronym glossary of terms

Wwap = ll third lp walking with a panther

Goat = ll cool j long player titled greatest of all time

 

[Art Barr]

now this is just my opinion, I personally feel that he should have stayed with Clef. Had he stayed with Clef, he would have been on the 25 to Life song from the Life Soundtrack in place of Raptile(whatever happened to him? he was dope), got better production for his 2nd album from Clef and Salaam Remi, and structured a better album for the mainstream. I think he ruined it by dissing clef and leaving the camp cuz this was around the time Clef was blowing up with everything like. Canibus probably could have had a spot on "maria maria".

No.

Canibus was ruined by clef

As clef really had no cultural hiphop understanding. Evident by canibus being on the sellout record and painting himself silver. It was conpletely the wrong move to work wirh clef. Working with clef. Was like working with a ja-fake'n rapper from the style war era like the light skinned guy.
opposite mister man from the bush babees. When at that time mister man was trying to make a comeback on fortified live. With arguably verse of the year contender rhymes. Yet still could not dispel the commercial ja-fake'n reggae direction of the bush babees.
To even be regarded.



for said verse besides darkhorse mention from vinyl collector.



Art Barr

 

[TrapHouse Rock]

I don't give a shyt who won that canibus battle shyt was lame/boring

Moe Dee finished LL with this (not even gonna get into LL ducking Moe Dee for YEARS in the city or how LL completely fell off after "lets go" and couldn't even respond until YEARS later after Mama said was poppin' nobody real respected that)



LL after Death Blow "think about it who's yo daddy?"

 

[Art Barr]

I don't give a shyt who won that canibus battle shyt was lame/boring

Moe Dee finished LL with this (not even gonna get into LL ducking Moe Dee for YEARS in the city or how LL completely fell off after "lets go" and couldn't even respond until YEARS later after Mama said was poppin' nobody real respected that)



LL after Death Blow "think about it who's yo daddy?"

Thia shyt was outdated and too corny to even prop.
Plus it exposed moe dee. For not being able to transistion.
outside the sonic landscape from 1983. That ll seguewayed from the ol school to new school way of thought as the boy king of nyc.
If moe dee would have build skill. To compete and also adjust to the change in sonic landscape.
Instead moe dee never built skill to show and prove. That ll just built to be a higher quality younger emcee. That is the lench pin segueway feom ol school to boy king era to new school way of thought.


Art Barr

 

[TrapHouse Rock]

Thia shyt was outdated and too corny to even prop.
Plus it exposed moe dee. For not being able to transistion.
outside the sonic landscape from 1983. That ll seguewayed from the ol school to new school way of thought as the boy king of nyc.
If moe dee would have build skill. To compete and also adjust to the change in sonic landscape.
Instead moe dee never built skill to show and prove. That ll just built to be a higher quality younger emcee. That is the lench pin segueway feom ol school to boy king era to new school way of thought.


Art Barr

While true that has nothing to do with the battle. Moe Dee was done as an artist after the 1993 musical shift

The point is 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, 2020s lyrically the boy can't hang with KMD

Nas writes LL's lyrics these days .....thats Moe's lyrical grandson nuff said

 

[Art Barr]

While true that has nothing to do with the battle. Moe Dee was done as an artist after the 1993 musical shift

The point is 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, 2020s lyrically the boy can't hang with KMD

Nas writes LL's lyrics these days .....thats Moe's lyrical grandson nuff said

@TrapHouse Rock


Moe dee did himself in.
By being to egotistical to up skill.
Really ll let moe dee beat himself.

As ll just had to outlast moe dee in a war of attrition. As moe dee had no cultural way to precipitate a battle with ll based on commercialism as a premise. When moe dee was the commercial past the point of no return rapper.
Who was duckin silver fox. Who was ll's mentor.
Plus the original writer of
Moe dee tried to diss the kid who stanned him in ll. Where the same ol school way of thought ego shyt cost melle trying to diss krs.

Now as far as nas writing ll. You would need to provide j card proof. Or actual you were there.
or personally was the protege to ll and nas level proof.
to authenicate that type of accussation.
As i am the only actualized protege to a legend.
here online in this community.




Art Barr

 

[Krs2]

Why the fukk he keeps shouting out b dauntry and e nicks?? Who TF are those nikkas??

 

[Awesome Wells]

I don't give a shyt who won that canibus battle shyt was lame/boring

Moe Dee finished LL with this (not even gonna get into LL ducking Moe Dee for YEARS in the city or how LL completely fell off after "lets go" and couldn't even respond until YEARS later after Mama said was poppin' nobody real respected that)



LL after Death Blow "think about it who's yo daddy?"

Nobody f*cked with that Moe Dee joint, lol.

LL was cracking jokes and literally had murdered Moe Dee so bad on "To da Break of Dawn" that Jive almost didn't release Moe Dee's album, the next year. Because the whole game was laughing at him! KRS had to go to Jive and push for them to drop that Funke Wisdom trash and offered to do a feature on it. The album dropped and flopped so bad that Jive dropped him from the label only a couple months later. Moe Dee was outdated and mad played out by '91.

Meanwhile, LL was on a world tour and sold like 2,000,000 copies of MSKYO, performing "To da Break of Dawn" and putting the nail in Moe Dee's career. Bro was done after Knowledge Is King. He didn't know how to transition and update any of his style, and he was clowned for it. He was also like 30 years old, when most top rappers were only 20. But he rapped like he was 60! LOL!! So he shouldn't have even bothered going back at LL. LL had the people and the records. Moe Dee was out there looking bad.

 

[NormanConnors]

While true that has nothing to do with the battle. Moe Dee was done as an artist after the 1993 musical shift

The point is 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s, 2020s lyrically the boy can't hang with KMD

Nas writes LL's lyrics these days .....thats Moe's lyrical grandson nuff said

Facts

Lyrically L had nothing for Moe Dee or Bis, got cooked Straight up.